The answer to a question

Discussion in 'Parramatta Eels' started by Suitman, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. Suitman

    Suitman Immortal

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    Someone on this board recently challenged Misty Bee to come up with an alternative to Brian Smith rather than complain about the thought that he is not producing the goods.

    I pose the question back to whoever that may have been with this thought.

    Melbourne sacked Mark Murray last year due to poor performances from the team and found Craig Bellamy. I would suggest they had a reasonably successful season
    Canberra did the same to their coach and hired Matt Elliott. They also performed beyond expectation.

    It IS quite possible for a coach to stay at one club too long and to become stale.
    Other teams have found coaches. Daniel Anderson was stolen from under our noses.
    It is absurd to suggest that there is not a better candidate out there who may not be able to get more from our players.
    Rodney Eade is another case in point.
    The Swans had a new coach, fresh ideas, and whammo. Top four when their popular prediction was wooden spoon.
    I know we still have Smith next year and I will stand by that because it is not going to change.
    But to suggest that there is nobody out there who could have encouraged more from our players this year then he did is absolutely ludicrous.
    There were coaches before Smith, and there will be coaches after him.

    Suity
     
  2. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    I think that Smithy has been here solong that a gerneration of young Eels fans don't know what it is to be without him. They comapre Smith's era to Ronny Hilditch, and shudder at the thought. I agree, Smith has done better with the side thanhis two predecessors - although don't rule out the impact of our post 1994 buying policy.

    However, for those that can remember back PAST 3 Eels coaches, we can recall how changes of coaches didn't harm us at all.

    Perfect example: In 1979, Terry Fearnley coachd the side to the semis, and resigned. He had had 4 years at the top, with 2 grand final years, and an excellent recruiting phase that netted players of the calibre of Arthur Beetson, Mick Cronin, Peter Sterling, John Peard and Ray Price. In 1980, PEardy, a wonderful; and very popular clubman, became coach. Parra missed the finals, and Peard was replaced. And that was final 5 as well.

    In light of that, why do we persist with Smith who has now failed 2 years running (I'm aware we made the 8 last year, but we were nowhere near our potential, and deservedly went nowhere).

    A succesful club doesn't wait many seasons before a coach can get the job done. The Chooks replaced grand finalist coach Graham Murray with Ricky Stuart, who used the momentum to snare a premiership. Melbourne and Canberra replaced coaches who had them on the fringe of the 8 with new faces that got them well inside the 8. Penrith replaced a semi final coach who couldn't capitalise on it with a coach who took them to the minor premiersip, from wooden spooners, inside 2 seasons.

    Why is Parramatta the club that resists change? Why do we accept mediocre performances? Why are we happy with a Wests like existance when we could achieve a Brisbane like one?

    And why do you lot think it's wrong to change things to succeed?
     
  3. Y2Eel

    Y2Eel First Grade

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    having a Brisbane like existance would mean only haveing the one coach for 15 years...

    And why do you think its wrong not to change the coach to suceed??
     
  4. Twizzle

    Twizzle Administrator Staff Member

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    I think it's a bit hard on Smithy, blaming him for the last two years when we have had so many injuries.

    I don't think that a change in coach would have fixed our injury problems.

    Next year is a different story.......if we have near enough to a full list of players and don't make the top 4...........get the chopping block ready.
     
  5. newmanj

    newmanj Juniors

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    An extremely well thought out and logical post, suitman. However, i believe that Brian Smith should have 1 more season for the simple reason that he has already recruited and cut the players for next year. The team he has is the team he picked. For another coach to take over now, could lead to the same situation as souths, where Paul Langmack said all year that the players were recruited by the previous management, therefore were not his choice. I believe Brian Smith should announce prior to the season starting, that whatever the result, he shall not be with us next year. This would allow us to announce the 2005 coach early in the new year, and he can do the retention and recruitment for the next year. By the way, i hope JT is the next Eels coach.
     
  6. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    Something you could live with if you made the semis for 14 straight seasons and won 5 premierships in the process

    That is not what we are talking about here. We have not suceeded in 2 years. Why is next year gunna be different? Will we have no injuries? No underperforming players? No bad referees?

    In other words, will we have none of the usual Smith excuses for failure?
     
  7. TheParraboy

    TheParraboy Moderator Staff Member

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    Suitboy, great post mate, one of your best, ummm but, as per usual in recent times, you and the likes of Mysty like to just tell one half of a story !! Of course relying on hindsight and convienience a fair bit :D

    How did FRESH NEW Dragons coach Brownie go ? (wasnt Farrar sacked?) Should the sack him ? What about FRESH NEW coach Langmack ?, oh yes him too, come on he had better players than Coleman, should he be sacked ? Maybe relatively fresh new coach at Croulla there Chrissy Anderson is doing better ?? What about new fresh ideas from Tim Sheens ?? Of course we wont talk about how Parra, Stgeorge and Souths have used the most amount of players in 1st grade, whereas clubs like Canberra and Penrith have used the least. No we wont mention that, cause its convienient not too. Do you see how your thread is one half complete now ?? Maybe not.................

    Now Mysty has said QUOTE "Brian Smith has delivered us 7 fruitless years" END QUOTE . Hence there is only one coach that will be with fruit this year !!! haha

    Brian Smith signed to a long term contract (are we still honouring those?) early in 2002, yes, after the record breaking year in 2001. I clearly dont remember the likes of you or Mysty or others raising any sort of repetitive discussion to remove Brian Smith then. He must have had enough ideas then to last till 2007 eh Suity ??
    However with hindsight...and a little convienience he should go immediatly right ? haha

    On another note, If Brian Smith does leave end of 2005, 2007 or 2017 the new coach will get the support of the Parra fans, I have no question about that. Fans do not follow coaches or players.

    Mysty, I am a long term Parra fan with different views to you, and there are many like me, so stop using crap and innuendo and make out the older fans like you think the same way from that era!!!!

    Now before you come out with your customary line "Hell, we are labelled as not being REAL Parra fans and whingers". Keep in mind, I see that more so from yourself rather than others.

    At the end of the day, if you all feel this deeply about it, then do something about it. We are Reluctant to change you say ?? Well ditto with these Brian Smith threads, Repetitive posts saying the same thing somehow wont change things either !! Wonder who is really reluctant to do the changing , lol. The question to me it seems your kind want to remove Brian Smith but dont (or wont) just want others to do so, on your behalf, ......theres that word again, convienient !!

    :oops:


    ps Suity can you give me the Thursdays 15 million dollar powerball numbers on Friday?, cheers mate, :D
     
  8. Maroubra Eel

    Maroubra Eel Coach

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    Yeah good post Parraboy.

    If the other teams at the bottom of the ladder are not looking to replace their coaches then why should Parra.

    If the Dragons, Souths, Cronulla are happy with their coaches and their teams performance then good on them, keep their coaches.

    If we got a FRESH new coach and he failed in his first season then what would the difference be to what we have now? Its gotta be worth a shot doesn't it?
     
  9. Eelectrica

    Eelectrica Coach

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    Their are no guarantees either way.
    Of the Grand Final team I'm pretty sure only six players remain so Brian is changing personell in attempt too adapt to the way the game is being played.
    Next year could possibly be the most important in Smith's coaching career. With the new pokie tax clubs can't afford to have too many losing seasons and risk sponsorship.
     
  10. Suitman

    Suitman Immortal

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    Another Smith lover with a load of sarcasm. Hardly worth a reply. But I will because I feel like it.
    Another person happy with the current state of mediocrity.

    Just remember Parraboy, I have NEVER said we should sack Smith.
    But Suck ups like you and HJ should maybe just open your eyes a little and understand that maybe, just maybe, there might be a better option out there somewhere.
    I will never be a puppet to this club becuase as the last 17 years have proved, they ain't perfect.And I DID say, I will SUPPORT smith NEXT YEAR. I have also said many times before that He has and is a bit of a hero of mine.

    So don't throw misinterpretations back at me. You are the only one giving half a story.

    As for Langmack and co, read my lips.
    THERE ARE OTHER COACHES OUT THERE THAT CAN BE SUCCESSFUL.
    I gave just two examples. iF OUR CLUB IS HALF AS SMART AS YOU THINK THEY ARE, WE WOULDN'T CHOOSE A DILL LIKE lANGMACK.

    Suity
     
  11. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    So, parraboy, how long would you give Smith? A decade? Then what?

    Go to the Souths, Saints, Wests etc sites, and ask them if they made blunders. Go and get me a list of all the Souths fans chanting for Coleman to be back. Go and find the hoards of Dragons fans pleading for a return to the Farrar days. Where are the Tigers legions campaigning for a return of Terry Lamb?

    The amount of times the likes of you and your cronies have labelled me as a non Parra fan are numerous, so don't blame me for mentioning it when I do. And I twist nothing. 'Taint my fault if you can't, or refuse to interpret a comment obviously aimed at young Parra fans, and trying to understand where they are coming from.

    And I do want Smith gone. Contract or not, he is failing Parramatta. Whilst right now is possibly poor timing, it wasn't 3 months ago when I started calling for it. Icertaibnly hope that the powers that be, slow as they are, have left Smith is no undertain terms that he will be laid off and paid out if the Eels are not top 4 in 2004.

    As Maroubra Eel hinted at (quite rightly too) why do you take your cue from the bottom teams when we take our cue from the top, and get bagged for it!

    You might remember a premiership winning Paramata, but you sure as hell don't remember the hard decisions that the club took to make it happen!
     
  12. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    This is so true. There are no guarantees. But we should have a pretty good idea of where Smith is likely to take us. Bottom 4 of the semis, and out in the first 3 weeks on average.

    We can do so much better. So why not let us try???????
     
  13. Eelectrica

    Eelectrica Coach

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    Smith has done it before, maybe he can do it again? We won't know the answer to that question until sometime next year.
    Either way the board has already made their decision and Smith is going to get one more shot. Let's hope he can grasp the opportunity with both hands and get us the success we all crave.
     
  14. Ron Jeremy

    Ron Jeremy Coach

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    2002.........10 wins....2 draws....12 losses
    2003.........11 wins....0 draws....13 losses

    Definately not for great reading!!.....how can statistically the best side of all time crumble as bad as we have??.....everyteam has injuries??....could motivation be a major factor i think so!!

    Just say Brian wasn't signed for next year?....and was still in negotiation...would you like to have him resigned for next year or not??

    7 years??.....There must be some sceptisism towards Parra's motivation, innovations these days...7 years at any work place is a long time particulary when your not achieveing the desired results.

    Brian has implemented many innovating drills and so forth to our side over the years.....he turned no names into resonable first graders (not stars)...but at the moment this touch of his has gone out the window....i really haven't seen many at present develop into much better players.....before people point out Hopkins, Dunley....Hopkins was an Australian shoolboy who always had the talent..and did show alot of potential at Penrith but??....his weight was well down on what it was this year......his Penrith teammates where upset at him being unwanted by the club....Dunley always had the potential but has had massive injury problems through out his career.

    John Monie got stale at Parra in the late 80's after 4 years at the top for Parra..Cronin was gone in 3 years.....Brian now has been here 7 years!!...As i always say how many coaches have been at the same club 7 years straight for no result???

    Parra also cannot attract the bigger names to our club....and recently Brian was voted as being the least liked coach to play under..2 years straight he has recieved such accolade....not a positive indication for our side to improve.
     
  15. Misty Bee

    Misty Bee First Grade

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    Here here!

    Put it this way, if I came across a magic lamp, my first wish would be that I was proved wrong about Brian Smith so harshly that HJ and his drunken cronies could set up a website permamently bagging me!

    (Well, second -the first being that my missus had the body of Tammin Sursok and the sex drive of a horny rabbit - and shut up when the footy was on!)
     
  16. The Colonel

    The Colonel Immortal

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    :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|= :-({|=
     
  17. The Colonel

    The Colonel Immortal

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    OK now seriously............. for a few minutes.

    The debate over Smith has been continuing for a minimum of at least six months maybe more. :roll: Suitman, Misty Bee and all the others who have agreed with their point of view have put forward arguments that are not only convincing but have merit. That being said myself, E2W, Eelectrica, MPE and many others have also put forward pretty convincing arguments as well.

    This debate will continue to rage until one of two things happens. Either Smith and the players rally and win the premiership and at least finish at the top of the table consistently or the Eels board make the decision and cut their losses and say goodbye to Smith.

    There are candidates to take over the Parramatta coaching role should they wish too. In my opinion the best lot of candidates would be John Cartwright, Stuart Raper, Phil Sigsworth or Terry Matterson. They have been quite successful as assistant coaches and in Raper's case as first grade coach. If the board were to take this stance and have one of these players take over it would be a good decision. I would not loike to see the career of say a Peter Sharp or a Royce Simmons resurrected and the pressure associated with a Parramatta legend taking over - ala Kenny - would be too much.

    However as had been said previously the board will continue to support Brian Smith for at least the next year. Whether or not this decision is a wise one remains to be seen.

    It is a win - win situation should either scenario - the winning or a new coach being appointed (provided they have the abilities).

    This topic has been aired so many times that it is wearing thin. As Parramatta fans instead of arguing amongst each other we should be telling the other 14 teams to watch out next year.....
     
  18. poojar

    poojar Juniors

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    hey that was me, alright people do actually read my posts.
    Suitman you are right, you have attempted to answer my challenge which was instead of just whinging, offer an alternative (which would be more productive).

    i personally didnt suggest that there was no-one out there that could take over and yield better results, i just want to know who you think could.

    And although youve offered some examples of first time coaches who have been successfull (but still without a premiership i might add), for everyone of them there is a Paul Langmack.
     
  19. Suitman

    Suitman Immortal

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    No worries Poo Boy.

    My point was that this time last year, no one would have even considered Bellamy and Elliott. For that matter, no one would have considered Langmack or Lamb or Brown or blah blah blah.
    All I know is that there must be someone out there who CAN win us a comp. The Roosters got lucky with Stuart. The Warriors almost got lucky with Anderson.....and still might.
    Not saying Smith won't, but seven years........geez louise!!

    BTW, I read all your posts Poo Boy!! ;-)

    Suity
     
  20. The Colonel

    The Colonel Immortal

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    Answer me this?

    If a new coach comes in the next year and takes a team to the premiership with the almost the same players is it because of the coach that came in or the one that left? :?: Or both??

    Any new coach would be lucky to have the infrastructure left that say Ricky Stuart had when he took over from Graham Murray - he added maybe tops two or three players last year from what Murray had. I don't think you can use Stuart as an example except maybe for his motivation.

    Mind you Bellamy and Anderson have had to rebuild clubs to a better standard.

    Lang - almost the exact same club from 12 to MP?

    Chris Anderson - from tops to flops?

    Smith has had quite a few years but who is to say that staying next year is more beneficial than a new coach?
     

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