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The Bears

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
I don’t understand why people think relocation would work? If I lived in an area that wasn’t represented I’d want a new team with its own identity, not support some other team that’s been moved because they struggled to be competitive. I think any team that’s been relocated is doomed to fail

I don’t understand why some people don’t think it would work. It seems to have worked in multiple other sports, unless for some reason we all think League is some unique sport that can’t look at ideas from other sports.
 

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
Current NRL clubs relocating is one thing, but new markets should have the right to build their own traditions, not be lumped with a long dead, borderline irrelevant, team from Sydney. A Team, BTW, whom don't really want to be in the new market in the first place, and whom would almost certainly just use the market as a stepping stone to get back to Sydney in the long run.

Besides, most of the Bears old fanbase wouldn't accept a relocated version of the club anyway, which would totally defeat the purpose of bringing them back in the first place, but that is a whole other discussion.

Fair enough. I am not as well informed on the internal mechanisms of the club and its supporters so I am able to defer your judgement. I am intrigued by why Bears supporters wouldn’t support the club in a new location - it seems crazy to me particularly if it is their only shot of getting in (which it should be btw)
Whatever the decision may be though, there needs to be some sort of finality to this nebulous and unproductive situation which has been allowed to fester for much too long a time
 

Bomboss

Juniors
Messages
10
I don’t understand why some people don’t think it would work. It seems to have worked in multiple other sports, unless for some reason we all think League is some unique sport that can’t look at ideas from other sports.
Because it’s not an authentic representation of your area, it’s not built from the ground up or a promotion of an already existing club. Without this the tribalism that rugby league thrives on doesn’t exist, not to mention the traditional fans are now disenfranchised. I’d think most fans would agree in saying they’d stop supporting their club if it were relocated.
 

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
It seems to work in multiple other competitions so long as the net amount of supporters advance then it is miles better than mergers or killing clubs i.e AFL, Baseball, Basketball, American football etc. It is better than having nothing to support or a team that can’t compete on the field because they can’t compete. In any case, we don’t have any examples to draw upon in RL so it’s quite extemporaneous.
Looking out at this point in time, there are a few areas that deserve a club, clubs in areas that are probably too small to support them or have very limited potential for growth and limited capacity for more clubs considering our overall population and number of clubs in atm. Essentially it’s off kilter

So what’s the alternative?
 

Bomboss

Juniors
Messages
10
It seems to work in multiple other competitions so long as the net amount of supporters advance then it is miles better than mergers or killing clubs i.e AFL, Baseball, Basketball, American football etc. It is better than having nothing to support or a team that can’t compete on the field because they can’t compete. In any case, we don’t have any examples to draw upon in RL so it’s quite extemporaneous.
Looking out at this point in time, there are a few areas that deserve a club, clubs in areas that are probably too small to support them or have very limited potential for growth and limited capacity for more clubs considering our overall population and number of clubs in atm. Essentially it’s off kilter

So what’s the alternative?
I think the players are out there for an 18 team competition.
I like the idea of promotion and relegation, I think a lot more players might stick it out in the reserve grades if there were a chance they could play in the NRL. Logistically I don’t know how it would work and there would only be a handful of clubs that have the financial backing to be promoted.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
13,087
Because it’s not an authentic representation of your area, it’s not built from the ground up or a promotion of an already existing club. Without this the tribalism that rugby league thrives on doesn’t exist, not to mention the traditional fans are now disenfranchised.
Nobody cares about any of that. "Authentic representation" WTH?
If a Sydney team relocated to Perth it would be every bit as likely to be successful there as a brand new team.
 

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
I think the players are out there for an 18 team competition.
I like the idea of promotion and relegation, I think a lot more players might stick it out in the reserve grades if there were a chance they could play in the NRL. Logistically I don’t know how it would work and there would only be a handful of clubs that have the financial backing to be promoted.

In my opinion it wouldn’t work. In Europe where you have promotion/relegation there are no competing sports or interests (perhaps Rugby). In our market, which is probably more akin to the US you can’t afford to give your competitors a helping hand. Take for example the Brisbane Broncos / imagine the damage it would cause to the game’s bottom line if they were relegated to the second division

Secondly there is just not the support or structures for a second division. It would just be the same teams getting promoted/relegated
 
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NK Arsenal

Juniors
Messages
1,807
How they expect a club to exist that doesn’t represent a geographic location is beyond me

I’d be ok with them being West Coast / Adelaide / Northern NSW but not this rubbish of being a travelling circus
 

LeagueXIII

First Grade
Messages
5,616
The thing that strikes fear in me about this is the fact that they have been talking to the NRL for six months.

Parts of this bid seem to have NRL fingerprints all over it

Agreed, someone on here mentioned a while back that Nick Politis would help the Bears get back in and if you notice this bid says nothing about touching the Central Coast which is now the Roosters nursery.
 

reanimate

Bench
Messages
3,244
Living in Melbourne where the VFL/AFL never had any competitions run by clubs, where recruiting zones zones disappeared 40 years ago, games stopped being played at local stadiums 20 - 30 years ago and if you live in Collingwood you are no more likely to follow Collingwood than any other AFL teams, the way RL operates in Sydney baffles me.
So, what actually happens in the Bears old zone? Is RL still strong? Do people all follow other clubs now? How would NSB be able to have any say over what happens in schools? Why is a defunct club running the show? What's in it for them anyway?
Is there ever any talk in Sydney of getting the NRL to actually run the game, and adopting a draft and centralised system like the AFL in Melbourne? Seems to be working from them here.
RL is in poor shape on the North Shore. The Bears still oversee the North Sydney district, they run the junior league North Sydney branded comps, run rep sides and send their senior players to schools and junior carnivals etc for ‘development’. Kids don’t care about meeting some nuffie reserve grader from a team that died before they were born though, they’d rather meet stars from NRL teams like James Tedesco or Tommy Turbo, but they aren’t afforded those opportunities at events run by the Bears.

There’s long been a point, usually from when kids hit double digits in age to their early teens, when there have no longer been enough teams to run a self sustaining comp in the North Sydney district. At that point, they’ve played against Manly’s teams in a combined comp. It had been that way long before other districts started doing similar things.

As The Great Dane said, if the NRL is going to allow this outdated relic of a junior/development system to continue, then what’s there at least has to make some kind of basic sense. What purpose does the North Sydney district serve? What does its continued existence achieve? There don’t seem to be many good answers to those questions. Allowing the status quo to continue further in order to entertain the Bears’ aspirations of playing in the top flight again only does further damage to the game.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,150
RL is in poor shape on the North Shore. The Bears still oversee the North Sydney district, they run the junior league North Sydney branded comps, run rep sides and send their senior players to schools and junior carnivals etc for ‘development’. Kids don’t care about meeting some nuffie reserve grader from a team that died before they were born though, they’d rather meet stars from NRL teams like James Tedesco or Tommy Turbo, but they aren’t afforded those opportunities at events run by the Bears.

There’s long been a point, usually from when kids hit double digits in age to their early teens, when there have no longer been enough teams to run a self sustaining comp in the North Sydney district. At that point, they’ve played against Manly’s teams in a combined comp. It had been that way long before other districts started doing similar things.

As The Great Dane said, if the NRL is going to allow this outdated relic of a junior/development system to continue, then what’s there at least has to make some kind of basic sense. What purpose does the North Sydney district serve? What does its continued existence achieve? There don’t seem to be many good answers to those questions. Allowing the status quo to continue further in order to entertain the Bears’ aspirations of playing in the top flight again only does further damage to the game.
You could say the same thing about any of the BRL or Qcup sides, that had lasted over a century, most of them feed other NRL clubs, just like the Bears do with the Sydney Roosters, i don't see a difference really... their aspirations to return to top flight have become a running joke, but its unique because the BRL clubs never became a 1st grade nationwide team until next year when the dolphins join, i hope the bears return, but it feels like it should happen after Perth get re admitted or atleast have a team of their own
 

Colk

Juniors
Messages
331
Mugab whilst I definitely think the Sydney and NSW are important I think 10 sides is more than ample. You can’t attract much new support as the support you would gain by entering a side would be taking supporters from another side. The only way the Bears get a spot in the NRL from North Sydney/CC is if a couple of existing sides in Sydney were to fold/relocate
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
45,002
Every now and then there are moments in time that define the future. The 18th club decision will be such a moment for rugby league in australia. Does it just want to remain a big fish in shrinking pond or does it want to forge a future where it can once again become Australia’s #1 footy code? Time will tell.
 
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MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,150
Every now and then there are monets in time that define the future. The 18th club decision will be such a moment for rugby league in australia. Does it just want to remain a big fish in shrinking pond or does it want to forge a future where it can once again become Australia’s #1 footy code? Time will tell.
Its Rugba Leg bro, it'll come down to THE Bears or PNG/QLD Pride
My money is on Pride, purely coz of a new country representing and also every expansionist or anti Sydney fan cracking it if Bears get a look in
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
45,002
I
Its Rugba Leg bro, it'll come down to THE Bears or PNG/QLD Pride
My money is on Pride, purely coz of a new country representing and also every expansionist or anti Sydney fan cracking it if Bears get a look in
In all honesty, as bat sht crazy a decision as it would be, I could more than live with it being png, it would at least show some balls and desire to grow. But it won’t be.
 

MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,150
I

In all honesty, as bat sht crazy a decision as it would be, I could more than live with it being png, it would at least show some balls and desire to grow. Bit it won’t be.
Yep looking at the trajectory of stadium builds, commentary around Head office, and media speculation going around, these will be the choices, leaving lips wet and the fans shouting at the heavens for a Perth team to add a new timeslot, and broadcast renegotiation deal at Team licence no.19, probably year 2028, see i can read the terrian, and as I've said many times over, the NRL dont consider your playing stocks viable for expansion where you are, the NRL aren't looking at expanding footprints otherwise theyd have never left Perth and Adelaide in the 1st place, they want players, the competition is gladiatorial, the shelf life of players doesn't last longer than 10-15 years, if that most of these guys are done in 5 years and move on to ESL, they want the fish where they are, not where they could be
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,138
Fair enough. I am not as well informed on the internal mechanisms of the club and its supporters so I am able to defer your judgement. I am intrigued by why Bears supporters wouldn’t support the club in a new location - it seems crazy to me particularly if it is their only shot of getting in (which it should be btw)
Whatever the decision may be though, there needs to be some sort of finality to this nebulous and unproductive situation which has been allowed to fester for much too long a time
That's an extremely complex question, that's answer I not only find hard to articulate (you kind of have to have experience it to truly understand it), but that I'm not sure I can answer satisfactorily in a short post. The answer would also be slightly different for each person if they were honest in answering the question as well. Anyway keep all that in mind when you read my answer.

Most old Bears fans have a nostalgia driven idealised idea of what the Bears coming back to the NRL would actually entail. That idea is, generally speaking, totally ignorant of the realities of running a modern NRL club and is totally unrealistic. In other words, in their heads the Bears coming back would mean recapturing a place, time, and feeling (for lack of a better word) that is long past and bringing it to the present, but that is impossible and the reality of the Bears return failing to live up to their expectations would be extremely disappointing for a lot of old Bears fans.

So that would be an issue before we even start talking about the club being the e.g. Perth Bears, and existing as a relocated club that rarely play games at NS Oval.

But speaking directly to why they wouldn't accept a relocated club, well it's for a lot of the same reasons that the majority of fans of any club wouldn't accept a relocation of their club. For a lot of people being a member of a club is deeply connected to where you and that club are from, about belonging to a tribe and that tribe leaving you behind for greener pastures can be seen a betrayal, etc, etc, you get the general idea.
If you add all those factors together, then add the simple fact of 20 years of natural attrition of the Bears fan base and their simply isn't that many Bears fans of the sort whom would be active supporters left anymore. Let's put it this way; if there was great demand for a Bears NRL team then their attendance in the NSW Cup would be way better than it has been historically.

Lots of Bears fans like to say things like 'if only the club had been allowed to relocate to Gosford everything would have been fine'. Here's the thing though; that is said totally in hindsight, and those Bears fans totally forget/ignore the general outrage to the planned relocation, and had often themselves claimed at the time that they were going to abandon the club once the relocation was complete. I see no reason why after the initial honey moon period of Bears being back had wore off, and most of them had realised that the Bears are never, ever, coming back to NS fulltime, that those same attitudes wouldn't grow again within the old fanbase.

Anyway I'm starting to ramble now, so I'll leave it there.

BTW, just to make it absolutely clear, I'm not saying that there're no Bears fans that would accept a relocated new version of the club.
There is definitely a group of hardcore true believer NS fans, whom don't care how or why, they just want their team back in the NRL and would follow them to the best of their abilities no matter the circumstances. However, IMO based on my interactions with other Bears fans, the size of that group is massively overstated when discussion about the Bears coming back come up.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,138
RL is in poor shape on the North Shore. The Bears still oversee the North Sydney district, they run the junior league North Sydney branded comps, run rep sides and send their senior players to schools and junior carnivals etc for ‘development’. Kids don’t care about meeting some nuffie reserve grader from a team that died before they were born though, they’d rather meet stars from NRL teams like James Tedesco or Tommy Turbo, but they aren’t afforded those opportunities at events run by the Bears.

There’s long been a point, usually from when kids hit double digits in age to their early teens, when there have no longer been enough teams to run a self sustaining comp in the North Sydney district. At that point, they’ve played against Manly’s teams in a combined comp. It had been that way long before other districts started doing similar things.

As The Great Dane said, if the NRL is going to allow this outdated relic of a junior/development system to continue, then what’s there at least has to make some kind of basic sense. What purpose does the North Sydney district serve? What does its continued existence achieve? There don’t seem to be many good answers to those questions. Allowing the status quo to continue further in order to entertain the Bears’ aspirations of playing in the top flight again only does further damage to the game.
It's not just NS either.

The amount of resources in and support for grassroots RL in (almost) any region not directly connected to an NRL club are abysmal compared to those that do have the support of an NRL club.

In other words basically all grassroots in the country outside of Sydney, Brisbane, most of country Qld, and parts of country NSW/ACT are in a similar situation to NS, and the only way to fix that is for the NRL to take all the responsibility for the administration of grassroots and community RL and create a standardised national program to administer it.

The best way to go about that is debatable, but it's what needs to happen, and get ready for the clubs and old dinosaur's screams of 'they're trying to steal "our" juniors' if/when it happens.
 

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