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The Bears

siv

First Grade
Messages
6,757
The main dufference between Sydney clubs and the rest is simple

Sydney clubs are your local club

While every other club is in fact a regional district club, which have been playing regional tournaments or tours v international teams

Your local club has always below this

Redcliffe will be the first club promoted from below a regional club into FG. And the first since the Sharks came out from under Wests then St George
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
976
So ergo supporters are all the same no matter where they are based, which is precisely the point you were refuting earlier by characterising one set of supporters as somehow superior to others (you wouldn’t understand because you don’t follow a Sydney club- you follow a plastic club) )

The only thing that matters ultimately is how many supporters you have and whether you are financially viable. That’s it. If a club relocates because they can get more supporters and pay their bills which is what happened to the Lions and the Swans then that is ultimately a good decision. It’s not likely to happen but if it were to happen, inductive reasoning suggests that it I should highly possible that it would work

Another point which I found interesting is not trying to compete with the AFL. Why do some supporters want us to be second fiddle? Even if we never catch up to AFL shouldn’t we at least try? You shouldn’t run a business against your main competitor and not try to outdo them - it seems incredibly defeatist
The AFL is a domestic competition for a sport exclusively played in Australia, the NRL is a domestic competition for a sport that has an international game (albeit a small one). One would think our main competitor is rugby union if we're wanting to catch up to anything.

Heck I think we should be focusing more on expanding outside of Australia (ie. a second NZ team and the Pacific) than trying to compete with a competition that does not nor will ever have an international game.

As stated before putting up the Swans as the poster child of relocation working is a nonsense. We're talking about a club that was flat broke a decade after moving and had to be bailed out by the league financially twice.

South Melbourne had absolutely no choice but to move to Sydney as they were on the brink of extinction and the then VFL realised the league who was rooted financially themselves had to go national otherwise the game would've died decades later.

Last time I checked the NRL is not struggling financially.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,242
Interesting. It is a bit of a double edged sword though. The name could be a reminder of the fact that they did fail.

Also, the target market is not the immediate generation but the younger generations.

I would love the Rams to be back but what is the likelihood of the Rams or a team with a new identity for Adelaide as opposed to a relocated club going there?
The Rams did NOT fail - or rather, not of their own accord.

Their first season's crowds were good, and they were considered "low hanging fruit" when it came to culling teams in the early stages of the NRL.. in that mad rush to get down to 14 teams - they practically played 1998 with the sword of Damocles hanging over their head!
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
The main dufference between Sydney clubs and the rest is simple

Sydney clubs are your local club

While every other club is in fact a regional district club, which have been playing regional tournaments or tours v international teams

Your local club has always below this

Redcliffe will be the first club promoted from below a regional club into FG. And the first since the Sharks came out from under Wests then St George

What’s the point of this post? The suggestion that Adelaide Sharkey was that somehow Sydney clubs were more important than other clubs or that their supporters are more authentic in their experience or support of these clubs.

The origin of these clubs is irrelevant to the here and now - that is do they have enough money and enough supporters ?
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
The Rams did NOT fail - or rather, not of their own accord.

Their first season's crowds were good, and they were considered "low hanging fruit" when it came to culling teams in the early stages of the NRL.. in that mad rush to get down to 14 teams - they practically played 1998 with the sword of Damocles hanging over their head!

I know they didn’t fail but some people would equate the fact that they were dissolved with failure however it occurred
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
The AFL is a domestic competition for a sport exclusively played in Australia, the NRL is a domestic competition for a sport that has an international game (albeit a small one). One would think our main competitor is rugby union if we're wanting to catch up to anything.

Heck I think we should be focusing more on expanding outside of Australia (ie. a second NZ team and the Pacific) than trying to compete with a competition that does not nor will ever have an international game.

As stated before putting up the Swans as the poster child of relocation working is a nonsense. We're talking about a club that was flat broke a decade after moving and had to be bailed out by the league financially twice.

South Melbourne had absolutely no choice but to move to Sydney as they were on the brink of extinction and the then VFL realised the league who was rooted financially themselves had to go national otherwise the game would've died decades later.

Last time I checked the NRL is not struggling financially.

A Pacific side won’t work. Pacific Island countries are third world countries so where would the economic base be for this side
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,242
I know they didn’t fail but some people would equate the fact that they were dissolved with failure however it occurred
Exactly. For all we know, the Rams could have kicked-on - the 1998 squad had some decent players.

Likewise the Reds - and there's actually a very compelling argument that THEY could have become premiership contenders by the end of the 90s, given how many of their players went to the Storm in 1998.

It's as if the Raiders & Steelers were both axed in 1983-4, before either were given the chance to fulfill their potential.. or even TRY to..
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,799
W
So ergo supporters are all the same no matter where they are based, which is precisely the point you were refuting earlier by characterising one set of supporters as somehow superior to others (you wouldn’t understand because you don’t follow a Sydney club- you follow a plastic club) )

The only thing that matters ultimately is how many supporters you have and whether you are financially viable. That’s it. If a club relocates because they can get more supporters and pay their bills which is what happened to the Lions and the Swans then that is ultimately a good decision. It’s not likely to happen but if it were to happen, inductive reasoning suggests that it I should highly possible that it would work

Another point which I found interesting is not trying to compete with the AFL. Why do some supporters want us to be second fiddle? Even if we never catch up to AFL shouldn’t we at least try? You shouldn’t run a business against your main competitor and not try to outdo them - it seems incredibly defeatist
We are the hungry jacks to McDonald’s or red rooster to kfc lol
 

AdelaideSharky

Juniors
Messages
976
A Pacific side won’t work. Pacific Island countries are third world countries so where would the economic base be for this side
Oh really?

You may want to tell that to the New Zealand Rugby Union then who created the Moana Pasifika side who will play in this year's Super Rugby competition out of the Warriors home Mount Smart Stadium.

Plus there will be a Fijian side in that competition this season too.

Seems our main competitors seem to think not one but two Pacific Island teams will work while we cower away on the East Coast of Australia scared shitless about venturing out of that bubble.
 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,485
Oh really?

You may want to tell that to the New Zealand Rugby Union then who created the Moana Pasifika side who will play in this year's Super Rugby competition out of the Warriors home Mount Smart Stadium.

Plus there will be a Fijian side in that competition this season too.

Seems our main competitors seem to think not one but two Pacific Island teams will work while we cower away on the East Coast of Australia scared shitless about venturing out of that bubble.


While I'm quite openly a Rugby fan, it is worth pointing out that Moana Pasifika was born out of a combination of high profile Pacific Islanders with big bank accounts and the NZ Rugby Union who have basically spent decades taking the best Tongan and Samoan players for the All Blacks which has led to extreme guilt and international media criticism that they have deprived those countries of their best players.

The Drua similarly are getting several million dollars from the Australian government for that same reason, that Fiji has been a raiding ground for other countries teams.

Plus Rugby is far and away more popular in the Pacific Islands than League will ever be. In Fiji 7s is treated with a level of fanaticism similar to Indians and cricket.
 

RedVee

First Grade
Messages
7,094
I thought that was part of the premise for NZ2, and that Rugby have beaten the NRL to the punch with the creation of Moana Pasifika
 

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,750
Oh really?

You may want to tell that to the New Zealand Rugby Union then who created the Moana Pasifika side who will play in this year's Super Rugby competition out of the Warriors home Mount Smart Stadium.

Plus there will be a Fijian side in that competition this season too.

Seems our main competitors seem to think not one but two Pacific Island teams will work while we cower away on the East Coast of Australia scared shitless about venturing out of that bubble.

You have to look at the customer base for these things and not just the talent or pathways.

Where are you basing the side first of all. The only Pacific Island with any sort of population is Fiji which has about 900k. Tonga and Samoa have a population of 100k each. Would any of these countries have the grounds or infrastructure. If you are including the PNG in this side then you have the population and a semi decent stadium but it is not a safe place at all. So logistics are a big issue.

Secondly, much of these populations are very poor so you have the issue of can people afford to attend their games and watch them on TV. So revenue is a concern

Thirdly there’s a big cultural element to overcome. The Pacific Islands aren’t some homogeneous whole - each Island has their own distinctive language and culture. These islands also have a lot of rivalry - are these players really going to bind together when they commonly play against each other.
 
Messages
14,822
While I'm quite openly a Rugby fan, it is worth pointing out that Moana Pasifika was born out of a combination of high profile Pacific Islanders with big bank accounts and the NZ Rugby Union who have basically spent decades taking the best Tongan and Samoan players for the All Blacks which has led to extreme guilt and international media criticism that they have deprived those countries of their best players.

The Drua similarly are getting several million dollars from the Australian government for that same reason, that Fiji has been a raiding ground for other countries teams.

Plus Rugby is far and away more popular in the Pacific Islands than League will ever be. In Fiji 7s is treated with a level of fanaticism similar to Indians and cricket.
If Aus rugby wasn't in the gutter and could field 6 or more strong teams then we wouldn't have two Pacific teams entering the league.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
69,799
It's a good move by Union, keeping a step ahead of RL who might one day wake up to building something beyond NSW and Qlnd.

There must be plenty of Tongans in NZ looking at the amazing support during the last RLWC.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,277
What has any of this got to do with the bears? ....if they want back in, pick up a major metropolitan location deprived of league......ORRRR go to Melbourne as its rival.... do a reversal swans!!!!
 
Last edited:
Messages
14,822
What has any of this got to do with the bears? ....if they want back in, pick up a major metropolitan location deprived of league......ORRRR go to Melbourne as its rival.... do a reversal swans!!!!
Weren't the South Melbourne Swans still in the VFL when they relocated to Sydney?

If the Bears put in a bid as the West Coast Bears then they will effectively be a NSW Cup team trying to enter the NRL as a new team based out of Perth. The whole point of relocations is to create a larger footprint without adding another team to the league. Adding the Bears does the opposite as they will be the 18th team. The purpose of a Perth team should be to make rugby league mainstream in Western Australia. If West Coast Bears enter the league then all the focus will be on North Sydney, making the Perth public feel left out.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
15,277
Weren't the South Melbourne Swans still in the VFL when they relocated to Sydney?

If the Bears put in a bid as the West Coast Bears then they will effectively be a NSW Cup team trying to enter the NRL as a new team based out of Perth. The whole point of relocations is to create a larger footprint without adding another team to the league. Adding the Bears does the opposite as they will be the 18th team. The purpose of a Perth team should be to make rugby league mainstream in Western Australia. If West Coast Bears enter the league then all the focus will be on North Sydney, making the Perth public feel left out.
Yes, but this is sementics in regards to perth, if you used the same example but said Melbourne or Adelaide then it's worthy of it
 

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