The Burger

[BuffaloRules]

What do you guys think of him??

He was getting plenty of hype in the US earlier this month.

Heres his stats so far this year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5536

11 TDs 6 INT and a rating of 101.3.

Solid but hardly spectacular.

He is fortunate that the Steelers have a couple of great RB's and a defense that is playing well.

He has potential, but the comparisons with Elway are a little premature IMO.

 

[Big Tim]

He wins games, that is the major stat. His numbers may not be great, but he has the football mind it takes to win games consistently for a franchise. The fact he is yet to start in a losing NFL team is what makes him special. You can argue that he has a great team behind him, but 2 things make that argument difficult to accept.

1. Steelers record last year without Big Ben
2. No other rookie QB has won in every career start.

I dont think its a coincidence that they are winning with Big Ben at QB.

 

[Broncodroid]

Craig Krenzel, rookie from Ohio and a 5th round pick, is 3-0 as a Bears starter this season I may point out on a team that comes no where near Pittsburgh talent wise. Sothere actually is another ROOKIE QB who has one in every career start a the moment albeit he has a horrible QB rating and hardly spectacular stats though Big Tim said it best, 'He wins games, that is the major stat'.

Geez, how is a QBR of 101.3 'solid, but hardly spectacular' ? :shock: Are you comparing Big Ben too Manning's numbers ? Only Manning and the reborn Brees from the Chargers have a higher QB rating than Big Ben in the AFC with McNabb, Culpepper and Griese in the NFC! Explain yourself as this is a ridiculous comment to make given we are talking about a ROOKIE! A veteran QB would call those numbers a career year in the making for crying out loud.

You also failed to mention the guys accuracy which is amongst the top in the NFL if not the best at the moment:

He has completed 117 passes from 171 attempts for 1450 yards. Einstein, that is a stunning completion % of 68.4 %.

This guy is doing it all and then some, keep in mind, he is the only QB to beat the high flying Eagles this season as well as knocking off the much vaunted Pats.

Now, he has one great RB behind him, I would hardly call Duce Staley great. If anything, he is a solid pro getting another chance though at the moment he is injured.

Comparing Ben to Elway ? Yes, premature, though most are comparing him too a young Dan Marino in the USA not Elway. If anything, they wear the same jersey :roll:.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Geez, how is a QBR of 101.3 'solid, but hardly spectacular' ? :shock: Are you comparing Big Ben too Manning's numbers ? Only Manning and the reborn Brees from the Chargers have a higher QB rating than Big Ben in the AFC with McNabb, Culpepper and Griese in the NFC! Explain yourself as this is a ridiculous comment to make given we are talking about a ROOKIE! A veteran QB would call those numbers a career year in the making for crying out loud.

:lol: Geez you seem a bit fired up champ.

So his current rating puts him at 6th then of all QB's......you would rate this as spectacular, considering he is playing for a team with the best record in the NFL?

You also failed to mention the guys accuracy which is amongst the top in the NFL if not the best at the moment:

He has completed 117 passes from 171 attempts for 1450 yards. Einstein, that is a stunning completion % of 68.4 %.

Yes, great result. I assume that completion percentage is incorporated in his overall rating, so if he was completing at 58% instead of 68%, then his rating would be below 100.

You fail to mention that in 8 games he has passed over 200 yards once.

This guy is doing it all and then some, keep in mind, he is the only QB to beat the high flying Eagles this season as well as knocking off the much vaunted Pats.

True, I watched both of these games when I was in the States.
He went well, ( solid but not spectacular :lol: ).

How do you think he went last week against the Browns?

Now, he has one great RB behind him, I would hardly call Duce Staley great. If anything, he is a solid pro getting another chance though at the moment he is injured.

Comparing Ben to Elway ? Yes, premature, though most are comparing him too a young Dan Marino in the USA not Elway. If anything, they wear the same jersey :roll:.

I rate Duce, he was averaging over 100 yards a game before he was injured.

He is the " go to" guy when fit ( not Bettis).

In relation to who he is being compared with, I'm only advising what the American media was saying...

 

[Broncodroid]

You are simply forgetting we are talking about a rookie QB in the NFL behind centre for a team that has lost one football game tieing for the games best record. We are not talking about a 5th year starter, we are not talking about a has been reviving his career, we are talking about a 1st round pick at QB living up to the hype that follows any 1st round QB. Name ALL 1st round QB picks who who have had a better start to their career in what a minority (you) describe as 'hardly spectacular'.

Were is Eli Manning at this stage ? Up until recently sitting behind the former 2 time NFL MVP who is a shadow of his former self. He starts this w/e and I will bet he will go nowhere near the heights Ben has scaled.

Were is Phillip Rivers ? Sitting behind Drew Brees who has had a rebirth this season in SD with LT struggling a little than in previous years. Rivers is unlikely to start this season.

Former Heismann Trophy winner Carson Palmer and Bengals no. 1 pick in the year before is now starting though no where near the success of Ben thus far.

Troy Aikman ? Do we need reminding about this future HOF'ers 1st season ?

Drew Bledsoe did well at the time, but even he is now blown out of the water. Rick Mirer ? Who cares, though he set QB rookie records with Seattle.

Joey Harrington ? David Carr ? Akili Smith ? Heath Schuler ? Ryan Leaf ? None lived up to the hype.

As for Duce, YES, I recognise he is the starter in Pittsburgh, that is not my argument, though I made the point he is NOT GREAT despite his season average. Read your post prior, you stated Ben had 2 GREAT backs behind him.

The BUS is a great RB and sits high in the top 10 All time rushing yards. Bettis is a short yardage specialist in his remaining days in the NFL though since subbing for Staley has put together 2 100 yard games (correct me if I am wrong).

 

[Broncodroid]

Just for Buffalorules who has travelled to America everybody and read the USA media opinions thus allows him to have the higher than thou' opinion on the NFL:

1st Round QB's who came into the NFL with fanfare

D. McNabb: 12G - 6GS - 216att - 106com - 49.1% - 948yds - 8TD - 7INT -QBR 60.1

S. McNair: 4G - 2GS - 80att - 41com - 51.3% - 569yds - 3TD - 1INT - QBR 81.7

R. Mirer: 16G - 16GS - 486att - 274com - 56.4% - 2833yds - 12TD - 17INT- QBR 67.0

D. Bledsoe: 13G - 12GS - 429att - 214com - 49.9% - 2494yds- 15TD - 15INT - QBR 65.0

P. Manning: 16G - 16GS - 575att - 326com - 56.7% - 3739yds - 26TD - 28INT - QBR 71.2

J. Harrington: 14G - 12GS - 429att - 215com - 50.1% - 2294yds - 12TD - 16INT - QBR 59.9

M. Vick: 8G - 2GS - 113att - 50com - 44.2% - 785yds - 2TD - 3INT - QBR 62.7

D. Carr: 16G - 16GS - 444att - 233com - 52.5% - 2592yds - 9TD - 15INT - QBR 62.8

T. Dilfer: 5G - 2GS - 82att - 38com - 46.3% - 433yds - 1TD - 6INT - QBR 36.3

T. Aikman: 11G - 293att - 155com - 52.9% - 1749yds - 9TD - 18INT - QBR 55.7

Yeah, in comparison to the above former 1st rounders who came into the NFL with all the usual NFL hype, Big Ben Roethlisberger is 'not that spectactular'. Wake up to yourself.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Opinions are like ass holes my friend, we all have them, and I believe that we are entitled to have different ones to you.

No argument from me that he is going well, and I agree that the only stat that matters is the win column, and he has got a few of these already.

Quaterbacks coming into the league "with fanfare" as you put it, are normally drafted by low ( and usually weak) sides, so it is tough to make an impression.

I'm sure you know that Rookies usually do not get much playing time early in their first year, unless the starter gets injured ( like what happened with Ben R).

I can't think of any rookie QB's that started out 7-0.

But, having said all of this, I still find his stats as solid - not spectacular.

Do you think its spectacular that a QB throws for 160 yards per game?

Lets see how he goes when his runners are getting stuffed, or he is trying to win a game coming from behind.

One thing about this game that gets up my nose, is the tendancy for the QB to get the credit for a teams win.

People forget the fact that the defense won the game for them last week.
People forget the fact that Bettis ran for 149 yards against the Eagles.
People forget the fact that Stayley ran for 125 yards against the Pats.

To them these wins are due to Ben R throwing for 160 yards.

Your right that Bettis has ran for 2 hundred yard games since replacing Stayley.

Would you be happy to see Duce playing for the Dolphins this year? ;-)

I am criticising the American media opinions of him .Why would I think that because I have read them, that would allow me to have a "higher" opinion then anyone else?

 

[RHCP*Auricom]

Buffalo Rules Said

Opinions are like ass holes my friend, we all have them, and I believe that we are entitled to have different ones to you.

No argument from me that he is going well, and I agree that the only stat that matters is the win column, and he has got a few of these already.

I agree buffalo...hes winning them games so, why not?

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

David Carr is by no means a bust..his on an a Expansion team and this season they have actually played quite well.

Joey Harrington is still weird cause he has never had a running game...neither did marino in his first year but he still torched defenses...but thats like comparing apples and oranges.

Also before the draft alot of teams were unsure about big ben cause of his baseball upbringing and whether he had enough experience playing football..it sounds stupid now when you look at eli manning who is just about to get his first start over Kurt warner even though warner doesnt deserve to be dropped.

Krenzel is having a great season especially since he was never gonna get a real shot to play had he been picked up by any other team..this is from a guy that had a record of like 63-4 (something like that)..

 

[Cupid Stunt]

Harrington hasnt really had a complete line or WR worth a mention for any amount of time either. Poor bastard...

 

[Broncodroid]

Harrington hasnt really had a complete line or WR worth a mention for any amount of time either. Poor bastard...

Sadly, it's not all about the various hype machines sprouting big names like T.O., Moss, Harrison and Chad Johnson. A very ignorant comment in reference to one WR in particular from Houston.

I and alot of people would argue second year man from Miami Andre Johnson # 80 is a WR NFL scouts would say 'rate a mention in Houston'.

Andre and Leading WRs heading into 2004/05

Andre Johnsons: 57rec - 859yds - 15.1avg - 54lng - 4TDs

Terrell Owens: 57rec - 908yds - 15.9avg - 59lng - 13TDs

Chad Johnson: 55rec - 793yds - 14.4avg - 53lng - 3TDs

Tory Holt: 53rec - 724yds - 13.7avg - 52lng - 6TDs

Hines Ward: 57rec - 678yds - 11.9avg - 58lng - 3TDs

Marvin Harrison: 51rec - 637yds - 12.5avg - 52lng - 8TDs

Joe Horn: 59rec - 839yds - 14.2avg - 57lng - 5TDs

* Randy Moss not quoted as he has been injured.

At the minute, he is 3rd in receiving yards in the NFL, equal 4th in receptions and quite simply amongst the best WRs in the NFL. Unfortunately, being in Houston, he does not receive the same hype as others nor from Madden football fans ;-) .

Be all end all...David Carr DOES have a WR worth a mention...in reality, he is quite fortunate to have Johnson and not the more hyped Charles Rogers who has been a walking OH & S hazard in Detroit.

 

[Cupid Stunt]

Harrington hasnt really had a complete line or WR worth a mention for any amount of time either. Poor bastard...

Sadly, it's not all about the various hype machines sprouting big names like T.O., Moss, Harrison and Chad Johnson. A very ignorant comment in reference to one WR in particular from Houston.

I'm no doubt misreading this but what does my thoughts on Joey Harrington & his lack of RBs, linemen & WRs have to do with Andre Johnson?

 

[Broncodroid]

My bad, I am the guilty one in misreading the post...actually, not misreading more confusing damn Carr and Harrington AGAIN! Appologies to cupid stunt.

Though, with Harrington, I think Roy Williams (rookie from Texas) and a fit Charles Rogers (2nd year man once again injured) with former Ram Az-zahir Hakim and former Niner Tai Streets offers some hope to an average bunch especially Roy who I am a HUGE fan of from college ball.

I was one who is of the opinion Roy Williams will turn out to be better than higher ranked Larry Fitzgerald (Cardinals) though Michael Clayton is another who comes into the equation after a solid start to his pro career.

Slightly off topic, though, look at these numbers from the highly fancied WR's selected in this years draft:

Roy Williams (DET): 31rec - 478yds - 15.4avg - 5TDs - 46lng

Larry Fitzgerald (ARZ): 39rec - 557yds - 14.3avg - 4TDs - 48lng

Michael Clayton (TB): 52rec - 751yds - 14.4avg - 3TDs - 56lng

Lee Evans (BUF): 19rec - 374yds - 19.7avg - 2TDs - 65lng

Reggie Williams (JAX): 19rec - 163yds - 8.6avg - 0TDs - 19lng

 

[Cupid Stunt]

No worries Droid.

The Lions when fully healthy across the park I think will be a 110% better team. Theres some great young talent there but injuries to key positions are just killing them.

Of the WRs you have there I think I'd only take two. Williams is a star in the making & for mine Lee Evans will do something before his days are over. He has an ability to beat players easily but just isnt getting the ball tossed his way.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Lee Evans will do something before his days are over. He has an ability to beat players easily but just isnt getting the ball tossed his way.

Hopefully next year Losman will be able to find him a few more times then the has-been they have in there at the moment.

 

[Big Tim]

Quaterbacks coming into the league "with fanfare" as you put it, are normally drafted by low ( and usually weak) sides, so it is tough to make an impression.

What was the Steelers record last year? They were hardly a good team. Big numbers, while they are good, dont win Championships, look at Brady and Manning. Brady has what you would say, average numbers, while Manning is breaking records every second week. What seperates them at the moment? Wins

Big Ben has the Wins in the column, cant argue with results.

 

[Dragons Cross]

Opinions are like ass holes my friend, we all have them, and I believe that we are entitled to have different ones to you.

Broncodroid's superior American Football knowledge overrides your opinion, didn't you know BR.

 

[BuffaloRules]

What was the Steelers record last year? They were hardly a good team. Big numbers, while they are good, dont win Championships, look at Brady and Manning. Brady has what you would say, average numbers, while Manning is breaking records every second week. What seperates them at the moment? Wins

Big Ben has the Wins in the column, cant argue with results.

I can't recall the Steelers record last year, although I know they didn't make the playoffs.

They made the playoffs the previous two years, and are a good team.
I'm not sure what the problem was last year - obviously their running game was not as good as this year.

So you credit the turn around soley to Big Ben?

Do you think Manning would have won a couple of super bowls by now if he had the Patriots D instead of the rabble he has got with the Colts?

Its a team sport, and I would say the teams success depends on about 30 guys playing well, not just the QB.

 

[Big Tim]

6-10

The only major difference between the Steelers of this year and last is the QB and WR position.

Big Ben is winning and Burress is putting up the numbers that were expected of him last year.