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The Cap

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
7,258
Great article by Malcolm Knox on a points system instead of a cap. He hasn't gone soft on highlighting the Elephant in the room about creative cap management ! Also highlights our Boards rank amateurism on using the cap.

Rosters NRL fans have a chant where they bellow the word, “cheats”. When I heard it, I thought, that’s a bit rough on your own team but good on you for your honesty and integrity. They were showing admirable fellowship with all the other league followers who think the same thing. Next the Roosters will be calling themselves the Rorters and the Chooks will be the Crooks. Then I realised the word they were chanting was not “cheats” but “Easts”. Oh well, so much for idealism.​

This is not to single out one club (although Matthew Johns recently fell off his chair laughing when Todd Payten told him he had, as a player, been forced out of the Roosters by “salary cap pressure”. When he regathered himself, Johns said, “You’re the only Roosters player in history that’s happened to”). But when the question of the week is why there are so many lopsided NRL matches at this time of year, you don’t have to look far past those lucky teams that can stockpile three of the game’s top present and future fullbacks – James Tedesco, Joseph Manu and Joseph Suaalii – and still, just like an Origin team, manage to squeeze them all in.





he Brisbane Broncos take on the Parramatta Eels in round 24 of the 2022 NRL Premiership.
The whole league universe fell off its chair when ARL Commission boss Peter V’landys said a few weeks ago that he didn’t want to see clubs “buying a premiership”.
In reference to the game’s ridiculously late transfer window, which enabled the Roosters to recruit Matt Lodge and Oliver Gildart and the Storm to “borrow” David Nofoaluma – all within the salary cap, lol, V’landys commented: “We don’t want to see that they go and buy positions that they need so close to the semi-finals. That’s not in the spirit of the game.”

You wonder what game V’landys has been watching for the past five, 10, 50 years. Clubs buying premierships is not just in the spirit of the game, it is its heritage distilled to its purest essence. Manly used to buy premierships before the salary cap, and everyone still hates them for it. Canberra held onto their early ’90s stable of superstars with questionable transfers, Canterbury and Melbourne were caught purchasing premierships with brown paper bags in the 2000s, the Roosters somehow managed to fit Sonny Bill Williams under their salary sombrero in their victorious 2013 season, and Penrith winning a title in 2021 with home-grown talent just makes them the exception that proves the rule, and they only got there after finding Tevita Pangai in an op shop. If buying premierships is not “in the spirit of the game”, it’s certainly in its DNA.
Since the Todd Greenberg era, the NRL has been promising a root-and-branch review of its rooted salary cap system, but other priorities keep overtaking it. The delay is understandable but also raises the question of whether running a fairer competition is a priority for the NRL at all.
Joseph Suaalii, James Tedesco and Joseph Manu.

Joseph Suaalii, James Tedesco and Joseph Manu.CREDIT:NRL PHOTOS
In recent rounds, some of those chooks have come home to roost. V’landys has recognised the problem of blowouts in games between penthouse and outhouse teams. The also-rans get blamed for giving up, their minds prematurely on Jetstar flights to Bali. “Playing for pride” doesn’t seem to be cutting it at Manly. Newcastle’s season got jammed down an S-bend. Few seem to notice the bleeding obvious, which is that the blowouts became routine once top teams were allowed to pillage the lower teams for their talent.
Why fix it? There could be an argument in favour of inequality. Why shouldn’t outstanding clubs be further rewarded for their excellence? Brandon Smith is going to the Roosters next year for $200,000 less than he could take at the Dolphins. If he’s already earning more than $500,000, an extra two hunjie is a reasonable trade-off for a premiership ring. If the league wants to reward its best-performing clubs and urge the others to emulate their standards, maybe it should drop the fancy-dress cap and just let ’em rip.
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The NRL’s failure to change its cap, while inconsistently policing it, creates a positive feedback loop that entrenches unfairness. The game has been strict on penalising salary cap breaches by St George Illawarra, Gold Coast, Parramatta, Canterbury, and Manly who, five years ago, were the last club to rort the cap (lolol). The common factor? Each team was low on the table. Lowly clubs get caught in a trap of senseless overspending on sub-premium players, and in desperation they find more money to spend on still more mediocrity. Next year, the cap will rise from its current $9 million plus, so the top clubs will be better able to lure top players and the poorer clubs will be better able to lure poor ones.
There is a solution: an independent, points-based rating of players, cut free from the actual (or fabricated) salaries they earn. Do what you want with money, but each club can only spend a certain number of points on its top 25 players. To manage the change, allow each to reserve half a dozen marquee players currently on their books and then have an open auction for the rest.

CREDIT:SIMON LETCH
It works with cricket’s Indian Premier League, where the big talent is spread across the franchises and the ladder doesn’t rinse and repeat each year. It would also stop the silliness of a Ryan Papenhuyzen being valued as two-thirds of a Luke Brooks, which is where we find ourselves at present.
The fundamental unfairness perpetuated by the broken salary cap is pretty much the only big thing that’s wrong with the NRL right now. The game’s entertainment value is better than ever, thanks to imaginative coaching, the sublime skills and toughness of the players and some good pragmatic decision-making by V’landys, Andrew Abdo and the administration. On the surface, things are chugging along well. Little wonder there’s no great incentive to disturb those favoured clubs with their nice “cap management”.

On the other hand, it’s not much consolation for the other half of the fan population who know, before round one, that their team has no hope because the salary cap has failed in its purpose of spreading talent across the league.

You could say the NRL has only one job – to lay out the rules to provide a fair competition and to update and patrol those rules – and it has failed. But when the happier half of the fan base is getting revved up about the finals, that kind of criticism is just class jealousy. Losers complaining about winners, the poor against the rich, the New Fibros against the New Silvertails, the downtrodden proles seeking a better deal – that would be against the spirit of the game, wouldn’t it.


Malcolm Knox

Malcolm Knox is a journalist, author and columnist for The Sydney Morning Herald.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
7,592
Not this again. I have been saying it for years. Never mind IPL it has been working in CRL for years.
The only problem is who rates the players value, how and how often.
It is not that hard though finding a real independant body

For me it gets done annually after the GF before Nov 1. Then clubs get a bit of time to get the trades happening say till Feb to get their rosters in order and cap compliant.
After that players cant transfer or swap for that year between March & October
If player has to leave / move on for "real compassionate grounds" and move elsewhere god forbid we have to let that one through in todays PC world, then it has to be a straight point swap player with another club with both clubs agreeing on the swap otherwise it does not happen.
If someone has to move regardless and if he has to sit out (after proving validity) the NRL can use some of their billions to pay out that seasons salary instead of spending on more fancy office extensions / upgrades.
 
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Smacka

Juniors
Messages
110
Simple answer - 13 Import rule.

Melbourne have been in the Competition since 1998 & have done nothing with "their" Juniors. So much for "developing the game". They're not the only one's who rape & pillage Talent from elsewhere as we know but the game is slowly dying that is for sure.
 

OneEyedDragon

Juniors
Messages
1,030
Not this again. I have been saying it for years. Never mind IPL it has been working in CRL for years.
The only problem is who rates the players value, how and how often.
It is not that hard though finding a real independant body

For me it gets done annually after the GF before Nov 1. Then clubs get a bit of time to get the trades happening say till Feb to get their rosters in order and cap compliant.
After that players cant transfer or swap for that year between March & October
If player has to leave / move on for "real compassionate grounds" and move elsewhere god forbid we have to let that one through in todays PC world, then it has to be a straight point swap player with another club with both clubs agreeing on the swap otherwise it does not happen.
If someone has to move regardless and if he has to sit out (after proving validity) the NRL can use some of their billions to pay out that seasons salary instead of spending on more fancy office extensions / upgrades.
Great suggestion @BLM01 . I looked at the Tigers vs Roosters game a week back and thought "both these clubs have the same salary cap (supposedly), and look at the talent available to each team". The salary cap has not worked and everyone knows it! Your proposed system would go a long way towards spreading the talent and might get rid of the ridiculous unders that some players are on (not mentioning that they will get paid exorbitant salaries to work as club "ambassadors " after they retire). The current TPA system is probably legal under the current guidelines, but it is not levelling the playing field. The NRL needs to seen to be doing something!
 

Trifili13

Juniors
Messages
557
Even if all the TPA's are above board, which sponsor in their right mind would pay a plodder to come to his team. Only the better players get these payments who are at the better teams, which allows these teams to pay a little less out if their cap as it is made up by the TPA. And around in circles we go as the better teams widen the gap.
 

SGMax

Juniors
Messages
400
I have been posting on this for several years.
Points system is good....but dollars are even easier...if Brandon Smith is given a cap value of $700k by an agreed panel, then that is what comes off the cap. If he wants to sign for only $500K with the Roosters then good luck to them for being profitable.

Every player thinking of a move or club interested in a player requests a "cap valuation" and that is fixed for (say) 6 months.
It is disgusting how much blatant rorting is done and the NRL turn a blind eye to it.
This will make TPA's irrelevant to the cap and the players can keep their actual contracts private.

Its time the NRL moved on this as a large section of fans are being taken for fools spending time and money following teams that are not given a chance of success.
 

Kolum Kid

Juniors
Messages
117
I have been posting on this for several years.
Points system is good....but dollars are even easier...if Brandon Smith is given a cap value of $700k by an agreed panel, then that is what comes off the cap. If he wants to sign for only $500K with the Roosters then good luck to them for being profitable.
I like your suggestion SGmax. My only concern would be the makeup of the "agreed panel" for valuations. We have seen how other mechanisms created by the NRL like the MRC and the bunker can't seem to make simple unbiased, fair and consistent decisions.
 

OneEyedDragon

Juniors
Messages
1,030
I like your suggestion SGmax. My only concern would be the makeup of the "agreed panel" for valuations. We have seen how other mechanisms created by the NRL like the MRC and the bunker can't seem to make simple unbiased, fair and consistent decisions.
Another good suggestion. Surely there are accountants and actuaries that currently work in rugby league - use them for valuations, with any accountant working for a particular club not being involved in valuing a player from that club. I like it! It could work. Where is Peter V'landys when you need him?
 

TruSaint

Coach
Messages
19,460
Another good suggestion. Surely there are accountants and actuaries that currently work in rugby league - use them for valuations, with any accountant working for a particular club not being involved in valuing a player from that club. I like it! It could work. Where is Peter V'landys when you need him?

PVL is busy organising the first round clash for next season at some Los Angeles statia between Manly and Saints.

Souths pulled out apparently and we are next in line. Onya PVL...
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
7,592
Another good suggestion. Surely there are accountants and actuaries that currently work in rugby league - use them for valuations, with any accountant working for a particular club not being involved in valuing a player from that club. I like it! It could work. Where is Peter V'landys when you need him?
You are all forgetting one thing in $ v Points. (say 1-5) like CRL
Too many variables with a base salary of around $100K that can be argued, complained and Yes potentially rorted etc.
e.g. The difference between $875K and say $900K could be enough to miss out on or get a player like Woodsy.
Chill all :) it is only an example

You just base your points off current quality or level, rep or not, (on achieved from the year gone)
Certainly not based on media love or Joey Johns potential and not based on your team winning the comp or making semis. It is done on each individual
Debutants automatically 1,
Aust / NZ / Origin auto 5
Then the in between 2-4 can be judged
Obviously you are compared amonst your piers in each position
If they want to use stats then so be it
Cap = 75 points (avge 2.5) for Top 30
1 point discount per player home grown
 
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OneEyedDragon

Juniors
Messages
1,030
You are all forgetting one thing in $ v Points. (say 1-5) like CRL
Too many variables with a base salary of around $100K that can be argued, complained and Yes potentially rorted etc.
e.g. The difference between $875K and say $900K could be enough to miss out on or get a player like Woodsy.
Chill all :) it is only an example

You just base your points off current quality or level, rep or not, (on achieved from the year gone)
Certainly not based on media love or Joey Johns potential and not based on your team winning the comp or making semis. It is done on each individual
Debutants automatically 1,
Aust / NZ / Origin auto 5
Then the in between 2-4 can be judged
Obviously you are compared amonst your piers in each position
If they want to use stats then so be it
Cap = 75 points (avge 2.5) for Top 30
1 point discount per player home grown
All good points @BLM01 , but better minds than mine could surely work out a workable system to put a dollar (or points) value on each and every player. No use of potential, but based on achievements, longevity, time since origin was played etc. Sure it would be complex, but it could be done, and tweaked as required.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
7,592
I will do the first team for the NRL based on my model. for 2023
Sydney City Eastern Suburbs Roosters
5 Point Players = Teddy, Manu, Crichton, Tupou, Collins, Smith = 30
4 Point Players (fringe above) Walker, Radley, JWH, Keary, Suaali = 20
3 Point Players off top of my head. Watson, Butcher, Sitili, Lodge = 12

Deduct 1 point for each of those ones home grown or Easts Juniors say Ball / Flegg level (-7)
Rest a mix of 2 & 1 as are fringe reggis / 1sts
They have 5 points left for 16 players. Cant do. They would need to offload some stars which is a good thing for the comp if they want more 3s & 2s etc to fit 60...or more home grown Juniors would help

Obviously you could tweek some things like maybe 2 points for home grown.. but thats it?
A panel could do this in one day.

Problem will be RLPA will be up in arms as players will aslo be legally challenging they are forced to go to a club who cant pay them what the rich clubs would do like forcing them out of the Roosters.
Stay strong it will get there in time.
 

OneEyedDragon

Juniors
Messages
1,030
I will do the first team for the NRL based on my model. for 2023
Sydney City Eastern Suburbs Roosters
5 Point Players = Teddy, Manu, Crichton, Tupou, Collins, Smith = 30
4 Point Players (fringe above) Walker, Radley, JWH, Keary, Suaali = 20
3 Point Players off top of my head. Watson, Butcher, Sitili, Lodge = 12

Deduct 1 point for each of those ones home grown or Easts Juniors say Ball / Flegg level (-7)
Rest a mix of 2 & 1 as are fringe reggis / 1sts
They have 5 points left for 16 players. Cant do. They would need to offload some stars which is a good thing for the comp if they want more 3s & 2s etc to fit 60...or more home grown Juniors would help

Obviously you could tweek some things like maybe 2 points for home grown.. but thats it?
A panel could do this in one day.

Problem will be RLPA will be up in arms as players will aslo be legally challenging they are forced to go to a club who cant pay them what the rich clubs would do like forcing them out of the Roosters.
Stay strong it will get there in time.
Works for me! 👍
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,505
I will do the first team for the NRL based on my model. for 2023
Sydney City Eastern Suburbs Roosters
5 Point Players = Teddy, Manu, Crichton, Tupou, Collins, Smith = 30
4 Point Players (fringe above) Walker, Radley, JWH, Keary, Suaali = 20
3 Point Players off top of my head. Watson, Butcher, Sitili, Lodge = 12

Deduct 1 point for each of those ones home grown or Easts Juniors say Ball / Flegg level (-7)
Rest a mix of 2 & 1 as are fringe reggis / 1sts
They have 5 points left for 16 players. Cant do. They would need to offload some stars which is a good thing for the comp if they want more 3s & 2s etc to fit 60...or more home grown Juniors would help

Obviously you could tweek some things like maybe 2 points for home grown.. but thats it?
A panel could do this in one day.

Problem will be RLPA will be up in arms as players will aslo be legally challenging they are forced to go to a club who cant pay them what the rich clubs would do like forcing them out of the Roosters.
Stay strong it will get there in time.

This is exactly what I have been saying for ages. Almost the same concepts and numbers.

A club must have top 25/30 players add up to x amount of points. Nothing over. If they come under, so be it.
Independent assessment of every player in the league and an allocation of points per player.

I originally had limits on the number of players within set ranges, but I think yours works better.

It would just come down to determining what impacts those numbers and how they are derived.

Clubs can pay them whatever they can/want.
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
4,863
I will do the first team for the NRL based on my model. for 2023
Sydney City Eastern Suburbs Roosters
5 Point Players = Teddy, Manu, Crichton, Tupou, Collins, Smith = 30
4 Point Players (fringe above) Walker, Radley, JWH, Keary, Suaali = 20
3 Point Players off top of my head. Watson, Butcher, Sitili, Lodge = 12

Deduct 1 point for each of those ones home grown or Easts Juniors say Ball / Flegg level (-7)
Rest a mix of 2 & 1 as are fringe reggis / 1sts
They have 5 points left for 16 players. Cant do. They would need to offload some stars which is a good thing for the comp if they want more 3s & 2s etc to fit 60...or more home grown Juniors would help

Obviously you could tweek some things like maybe 2 points for home grown.. but thats it?
A panel could do this in one day.

Problem will be RLPA will be up in arms as players will aslo be legally challenging they are forced to go to a club who cant pay them what the rich clubs would do like forcing them out of the Roosters.
Stay strong it will get there in time.
Boy oh boy, I would love to see this type of system come into effect. You have shown how the model is BLM01 and it is how I would adopt such a system.

I only hope that it will come about.
 

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