The lack of playing depth

[dragon-83]

I think one of the reasons for the late season struggles the last few years is due to the real lack of depth in the playing squad,. Even when players are out of form the players know they will continually be picked in the team week in week out and due to the lack competition for spots in team. Just my opinion

 

[possm]

I think one of the reasons for the late season struggles the last few years is due to the real lack of depth in the playing squad,. Even when players are out of form the players know they will continually be picked in the team week in week out and due to the lack competition for spots in team. Just my opinion

I agree! I'd also say we have too many players marked as 'having potential' and not enough marked as 'being ready for first grade'. A good balance is what is required in order to keep within the salary cap and to allow our NRL team to realise it's full potential each and every season.

 

[dragon-83]

I reckon Macdonald will be missed his a big loss he was like an extra forward.

 

[Dragonslayer]

Potential v opportunity
This to me is the main issue at the Dragons.
Take a look around at the majority of other teams. When the opportunity arises they have no real hesitation in realising a players potential by giving them said opportunity. Take Broncos with TPj and now Payne Haas and Roostets with Mitchell and Radley.
McGregor relies too much on "old guard" approach evem if they are out of form believing on the fact "they will come good".
We may never know how much potential some of our players have simply because of this reason.
Even Lomax, Periera, Dufty, Lawrie and Host were only giving an opportunity as a last resort, serious injury and even then McGregor would play the broken player until they could barly walk.
Opportunity v potential just doesnt exist at the Dragons.

 

[muzby]

I think one of the reasons for the late season struggles the last few years is due to the real lack of depth in the playing squad,.

No.

The reason for the late season struggles is due to our coach not having a plan b when the opposition coaches figure out our plan a.

 

[dragon-83]

No.

The reason for the late season struggles is due to our coach not having a plan b when the opposition coaches figure out our plan a.

Thats just one of the many reasons coach included.

 

[denis preston]

Agree about opportunities but as our ISP team is normally in the top 4 every year would suggest that our depth is not too bad at all , just perhaps not balanced ( too many second rowers for instance but not enough front rowers or dare we say it centres.) This is why the pathways program is very important.Before anyone ridicules the programme the problem we have is extra money from Third party to get the right player to fill gaps in the sides makeup.

 

[Saints Forever]

Agree about opportunities but as our ISP team is normally in the top 4 every year would suggest that our depth is not too bad at all , just perhaps not balanced ( too many second rowers for instance but not enough front rowers or dare we say it centres.) This is why the pathways program is very important.Before anyone ridicules the programme the problem we have is extra money from Third party to get the right player to fill gaps in the sides makeup.

TPA's? What are they?

We have the all powerful Gordon family at the helm now.

If we believe TPA'S are the answer to our recruiting issues, I suggest we start a chook raffle twice a week.

We supporters have a better chance of raising the money needed for TPA'S than Andrew Gordon.

 

[BLM01]

No.

The reason for the late season struggles is due to our coach not having a plan b when the opposition coaches figure out our plan a.

This is 100% correct. I have said it on numerous times, he can not spot cracks before they open too wide...Simple
Because you win in Rounds 1-3, well that formula and game plan executed well will win you the comp...It is called adapt and change ..to what is in front of you.
He cant break down other sides weaknesses during a game..especially when things dont go according to plan..you see it on the players faces.
You hear it in Mary's press conferences, he refers back to history all the time or stats for his rationale, he never looks forward to how the side should improve strategically

You do need better depth than what we have had, but without TPA's you cant have it. Your higher paid players take too much off your cap and that is market driven.
That is why the rich teams have stayed up the top in this current form of the game or continually make the 8. All teams have lulls and good periods but when Roosters say miss the 8, it happens once.every so often.. and then they open the safe. Same with Broncos, when did they last miss the 8?
The Dragons are hitting towards a peak...ewe better take advantage of it in the next 1-3 years or those players will be gone.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I reckon Macdonald will be missed his a big loss he was like an extra forward.

His laziness and poor defence won’t be missed.

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

Strengths: SGI has wonderful depth in the back row.

Weakness: just about every other position.

Fullback: Dufty, then who? Widdop? Who would replace him at five-eighth? Mann? I don’t think too many of us are comfortable with this.

Wing is arguably the most frail position. I’m unconvinced McGregor will pick a bloke who’s played just 10 first grade games since 2016.

Halves are among the best in the comp but as we saw during the semis, if Saints lose either Hunt or Widdop, Saints are stuffed. A 30-year old halfback as contingency only highlights how awful Millward is in his duties.

Hooker is a concern for me because I do not rate McInnes, and a question mark remains on whether Robson is ready for the NRL.

 

[Saints Forever]

His laziness and poor defence won’t be missed.

That’s the spirit Saint_JimmyG

So Nene and Flo 2018 won’t be missed, hence Peirera, Pearson, Lomax and Co will not be a retrograde step. We of course also have a new Fijian flye

Yep, they don’t have the experience but they are all hungry for a start in FG.

Pereira gave 100% when he was selected.

Pearson has speed, a good leap and if he highlight reel is an accurate reflection, he is a punishing defender.

Lomax is a gun and could play anywhere from 1-6 and give a good account of himself.

Mann should also be given a chance to contend for wing or centre.

Hence 2019 could well see our backline improve with or without Mann.

We shouldn’t ignore the fact that our halves did not have much time to gel during pre-season of 2018.

We will be better in 2019.

My guesstimate is 4th to 6th.

My head says 6th my heart says 4th.

 

[Drakon]

This is 100% correct. I have said it on numerous times, he can not spot cracks before they open too wide...Simple
Because you win in Rounds 1-3, well that formula and game plan executed well will win you the comp...It is called adapt and change ..to what is in front of you.
He cant break down other sides weaknesses during a game..especially when things dont go according to plan..you see it on the players faces.
You hear it in Mary's press conferences, he refers back to history all the time or stats for his rationale, he never looks forward to how the side should improve strategically

You do need better depth than what we have had, but without TPA's you cant have it. Your higher paid players take too much off your cap and that is market driven.
That is why the rich teams have stayed up the top in this current form of the game or continually make the 8. All teams have lulls and good periods but when Roosters say miss the 8, it happens once.every so often.. and then they open the safe. Same with Broncos, when did they last miss the 8?
The Dragons are hitting towards a peak...ewe better take advantage of it in the next 1-3 years or those players will be gone.

Good point about not getting TPA's affecting your depth.

Just to answer your question on the Broncos - they last missed the 8 in 2013 - they finished 13th.
2013 - 13th
2014 - 8th
2015 - 2nd
2016 - 5th
2017 - 3rd
2018 - 6th

By comparison, Here's the record for the Roosters:-
2013 - 2nd
2014 - 3rd
2015 - 1st
2016 - 15th
2017 - 2nd
2018 - 1st

The Storm:-
2013 - 4th
2014 - 6th
2015 - 4th
2016 - 1st
2017 - 1st
2018 - 2nd

The Dragons:-
2013 - 15th
2014 - 11th
2015 - 8th
2016 - 11th
2017 - 9th
2018 - 7th

 

[Dragonslayer]

Just throwing this out there:

If the NRL is adamant that each team must have 30 players then thete should be a rule that each of those 30 players must play a min 2 full games per season.
This would improve player depth and stop the "fill-ins" with coaches having to plan more and have suffient back-up in all positions.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Agree about opportunities but as our ISP team is normally in the top 4 every year would suggest that our depth is not too bad at all , just perhaps not balanced ( too many second rowers for instance but not enough front rowers or dare we say it centres.) This is why the pathways program is very important.Before anyone ridicules the programme the problem we have is extra money from Third party to get the right player to fill gaps in the sides makeup.

Denis
You nailed it untill we get more professional as in third party, we will struggle. We should be doing better.
We may never be rooster, storm or broncos when in comes to third party.
But we sould be much more competitive than we are.

 

[Old Timer]

Hard to have depth when so many of your depth players are already in your 1st grade squad.
Pereira, Lafai,Aitken, Latimore all good quality ISP players capable of playing a few 1st grade games when needed.
Also hard to have good depth when you play players in a multitude of positions and then select them on the bench and don't play them at all or for a token 5 minutes.
Extremely hard to have good depth when you sign a 29 year old who had never played 1st grade and they play in a key spine position and then when required they don't pick him & they go for the utility player.
Hey but don't forget recruitment is doing a good job just look at this years quality signings.

 

[denis preston]

Hard to have depth when so many of your depth players are already in your 1st grade squad.
Pereira, Lafai,Aitken, Latimore all good quality ISP players capable of playing a few 1st grade games when needed.
Also hard to have good depth when you play players in a multitude of positions and then select them on the bench and don't play them at all or for a token 5 minutes.
Extremely hard to have good depth when you sign a 29 year old who had never played 1st grade and they play in a key spine position and then when required they don't pick him & they go for the utility player.
Hey but don't forget recruitment is doing a good job just look at this years quality signings.

Jesus, you must be popular with your son / daughter in laws if you have any , so f**ken negative ! Agree token minute policy was baffling ( but apparently a lot of other NRL coaches had the same plan ) but you are saying that 5 of the 17 that got to the second week of the semis were basicly ISP standard ? You know your statement makes Mary look like a supercoach ? I don't think he is but if you think he is performing miracles than ok.

 

[Old Timer]

Jesus, you must be popular with your son / daughter in laws if you have any , so f**ken negative ! Agree token minute policy was baffling ( but apparently a lot of other NRL coaches had the same plan ) but you are saying that 5 of the 17 that got to the second week of the semis were basicly ISP standard ? You know your statement makes Mary look like a supercoach ? I don't think he is but if you think he is performing miracles than ok.

How about we just talk footy and leave the family out of it.
Tell me another contending club that would have Lafai and Aitken as its centre pairing coupled with Pereira on the wing?
Tell me a club shooting for the top 4 that would have any one of them as a 1st picked player in their squad week in week out?
Our forwards had such a good year they (plus the great early form of Widdop) carried a weak 2 - 5 for almost all of the season and when 8 - 13 couldn't get the job done it was bleeding obvious 2 - 5 couldn't do it in the absence of Widdop.
People talk about the great SF win against the Broncos and the loss to Souths well what in the end was the difference and it certainly wasn't 2 - 5?
The point that I make and you miss is that if we had signed some good quality backs we would have great depth as Lafai, Aitken, Pereira would be high quality replacements when required but if you think they really are 1st grade quality and capable of winning the premiership good luck to you I don't agree.

 

[Old Timer]

You know your statement makes Mary look like a supercoach ? I don't think he is but if you think he is performing miracles than ok.

That is your assumption not mine as I was acutely aware that falling from 1st to 7th within half a season indicated a failed coach and that not being able to win games that should have been there for the taking also showed inadequacy's in our roster and bench utilisation.
I was already well and truly on record as a person that fully expected us to fall away due to both coach and roster.
Did you think the roster was strong enough to withstand the coach and if not what positions needed to be better?

 

[Saints Forever]

That is your assumption not mine as I was acutely aware that falling from 1st to 7th within half a season indicated a failed coach and that not being able to win games that should have been there for the taking also showed inadequacy's in our roster and bench utilisation.
I was already well and truly on record as a person that fully expected us to fall away due to both coach and roster.
Did you think the roster was strong enough to withstand the coach and if not what positions needed to be better?

OT, I don't think anyone on this forum believes 2-5 are tremendous FG players. Reality is we need TPA's to compete with the top 4 sides.

At present we don't have the financial clout to improve the squad. One would hope if we did we would not have persevered with Aitken, Lafai and co for the past couple of years.