What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Local Junior Debate

melon....

Coach
Messages
13,458
Now Rugby League is a game of many traditions. The Dragon’s Red V. The JJ Giltinan Shield. The Haka before every Anzac Test. These elements of our game have stood the test of time. The Dragons have undergone major restructure with Illawarra. Yet the Red V continues to run out at Kogarah. The JJ Giltinan Shield continues to grace the foyer of the Minor Premiers, and our friends from across the ditch still dance their way into battle.

But amongst some of the steadfast traditions in our game, the winds of change have unsettled things. And the once breezy conditions are headed towards gale force, as our game continues to adapt for its own survival’s sake.

One of the elements of Rugby League is the concept of the local junior. For many years the success of our game was dependant on the nurseries across the states of NSW, Queensland and New Zealand. These junior leagues were the future for their regional Senior teams. They were a production line, and with a little bit of luck could produce the next Messenger, Churchill or Beetson. Local juniors always supported their senior team. Local Juniors always aspired to one day represent their senior team. Local juniors once belonged to that senior club.

There are two schools of thought. Old and New. And you either subscribe to one or the other.

In the case of Local juniors, there are definitely two schools amongst supporters. There are the groups who take great pride in the size of their local junior clubs. Penrith, Parramatta, South Sydney, Newcastle, Brisbane and Canberra, are either clubs that have had a large piece of the junior pie for decades, or are one team towns that bake their own.

Then there are clubs like The Roosters. The Roosters lost a large majority of their local juniors to the South Sydney Junior Competition. The reasons for this are numerous, and will be addressed another day. The point is, there are only 4 junior clubs directly linked with The Roosters as Local Juniors. St.Charles, Paddington, Clovelly and Bondi United.

For years The Roosters have had to recruit juniors from other areas. It was a necessity if they were to survive. And for years The Roosters have been the butt of many jokes on how they “poach everyone else’s”.

But those gales of change are quickly turning into a cyclone.

Enter Expansion. Enter Senior Teams from traditionally non-League dominated regions. For example Melbourne. The expansion of League, along with the professionalism that it has developed over that past 20 years, has seen foreign recruitment become a necessity and a part of a strong business plan. Due to the lack of local junior leagues, these clubs have developed good business relationships with Feeder Clubs outside their immediate areas. Melbourne recruit from the Brisbane competition. The Roosters recently had a strong development arrangement with Redcliffe and in 2006 form an alliance with Newtown.

League has become an Elite, professional sport. And as such, clubs need to look further to fulfil their interests in the Top League. At the same time, they offer a career path and opportunities for juniors originating from areas that normally wouldn’t afford them the chance of representing in the code’s elite competition.

The focus has gone from Local junior development, to Professional Junior Development. It no longer matters where a junior is from. And for those that subscribe to the archaic way of thinking that some clubs “buy all their juniors”, then all they have to do is look at their own team sheets this weekend. They may be surprised to find how many players in their top sides are not local juniors.

Its no surprise. Its how the game has been developing for a couple of decades now. So what’s to happen to the poor local kid that has played his 15 years for Wenty Magpies? Will he ever get graded at The Eels? Looking at the recruitment policy of the Eels, there’s a good chance he wont.

And so we pass through the eye of the cyclone of change. And we see Local Juniors become Feeder Juniors. Possibly for the Local Senior clubs, but somewhere in Penrith, Campbelltown or The Hunter, there is a kid who could go on to play Origin, win a World Cup, or do a lap of honour at Telstra Stadium…..for the Roosters, The Warriors, or The Raiders.

The local kid hasn’t died. He’s alive and well and flourishing. He just doesn’t live here anymore.

Ive been following the Roosters for over 30 years. In that time Ive seen some great sides and I was also unfortunate enough to experience horrible management and a recruitment policy that saw the Eastern Suburns juniors lost to the South Sydney Junior competition.

The thing that is unfair for Easts fans, isnt the fact that we lost our juniors. Nor is it the fact South Sydney were instrumental in taking advantage of the struggling Easts and played their part ensuring junior boundaries were rezoned to suit them. Survival of teh fittest I guess. IN business anything goes could also be another worthy cliche, but at what cost?

The unfair part is the fact South Sydney and many other opposition fans, ridicule The Roosters for not having their own juniors. Luckily the game has evolved and unfortunately for some clubs and their managements, they still see the game as one for the battlers, and success having a direct correlation with local juniors. Yes it is true local juniors are an asset. No it is not true they are essential for success in the modern game. The irony is the clubs wielding the ridicule, have the largest junior bases, yet success eludes them. South Sydney being the perfect example. For all their juniors, and mine also, they have not tasted Premiership victory in over 30 years. Its been over 10 since they made a finals series and 2005 was the first time they triumphed over their junior-less neighbours in a decade also.

So why the angst Souths Fans? Why lead a chorus against my club every time we purchase a player? The irony is if these South Sydney fans, took a close look at their top 25 player Roster, they will find a large contingient of key players acquired from areas outside South Sydney, or purchased from clubs that had a large investment in the development of these players. Heggarty, McDougall, Minichiello. To name a couple off the top of my head. None are Souths juniors. All Souths First Graders and All acquired from other clubs.

But they wont look. They cant. They need the illusion like some false hope to help them cope with the ridiculous management that has seen the club with the most Premierships, not win one for 30 odd years and counting. Just last week, their Patriarch was gunning to oust one of their battlers on the board...again. This time Mr Pappas is pulling knives out of his back. Who's it going to be in 12 months time George?

Honestly, for a club that is going backwards, from its chairman to its deluded fans in denial,South Sydney should not worry about the Roosters recruitment policies. They have had a second chance at the cherry after being re-instated from being a dead club, and they havent learnt a damn thing. If they go by the way side a second time so be it.

Because its one thing to talk the talk Souths Fans, but in the end you must walk the walk. And The Roosters who were almost dead several times through the horrible late 80s and early 90's, remain the only club that has played every season since 1908. They can walk tall.

A fact that I am very proud of, and no amount of unjustified whinging from Souths Fans can ever take away from us.
 

OVP

Coach
Messages
11,627
Melon, mate, you really are a Roosters tragic, like myself. Great post and as usual, spot on the money.
 

Mighty Tiger

Bench
Messages
4,075
melon good post

I think you will find that the people who post the rubish about the Roosters stealing juniors etc are thinking back 10yrs ago when well it did happen, however I bet had any other clubs at the time had the money and common sense that the Roosters had back then that they would of dropped everything to be in the same position.

I think stealing of juniors is the wrong terminolgy because in this day and age its very rare to see clubs with more than 10% juniors in the top squad anyway. Then many at those clubs claim juniors as their own when they arn't because yet again those really have no clue

A few on the Wests Tigers official forum have talked about how the Roosters "poached" Pangai, Plum and Parker over the 2 years but failed to realise that we appeared to have won the comp with plenty of our own juniors and that had they have gone to any other club no one would of been talking about that club as stealing these players. On top of this Plummy and Parker probably would never have got a run at the Wests Tigers and Pangai even though he is young would probably find himself waiting a longer than expected time to push himself in front of the current line up.

Further to this I pointed out that the Bulldogs signed Small, Roberts, Koupa this year (3 players to the Bulldogs 2 to the Roosters) and well people said but the Bulldogs need players in those positions - WTF???

Anyway just thought I would let you guys know that not all fans think the Roosters steal juniors from other clubs etc, sure I don't like it that Pangai will be running around with you guys for the next 2yrs but I blame that on the Wests Tigers incompitance
 

ozzie

Bench
Messages
4,704
Mighty Tiger said:
melon good post

I think you will find that the people who post the rubish about the Roosters stealing juniors etc are thinking back 10yrs ago when well it did happen, however I bet had any other clubs at the time had the money and common sense that the Roosters had back then that they would of dropped everything to be in the same position.

I think stealing of juniors is the wrong terminolgy because in this day and age its very rare to see clubs with more than 10% juniors in the top squad anyway. Then many at those clubs claim juniors as their own when they arn't because yet again those really have no clue

A few on the Wests Tigers official forum have talked about how the Roosters "poached" Pangai, Plum and Parker over the 2 years but failed to realise that we appeared to have won the comp with plenty of our own juniors and that had they have gone to any other club no one would of been talking about that club as stealing these players. On top of this Plummy and Parker probably would never have got a run at the Wests Tigers and Pangai even though he is young would probably find himself waiting a longer than expected time to push himself in front of the current line up.

Further to this I pointed out that the Bulldogs signed Small, Roberts, Koupa this year (3 players to the Bulldogs 2 to the Roosters) and well people said but the Bulldogs need players in those positions - WTF???

Anyway just thought I would let you guys know that not all fans think the Roosters steal juniors from other clubs etc, sure I don't like it that Pangai will be running around with you guys for the next 2yrs but I blame that on the Wests Tigers incompitance

You are spot on - what are the other clubs wanting to do?? Hold back their juniors because they can't get a run with their seniors?

I recall Maroubra was one of our junior areas and when the boundaries were redrawn we finished up with the CBD and Souths with that area. I am sure we can get a junior team from the CBD. You know the ones who lives on the quay railway station. I sometimes wonder why the Roosters don't put in for the boundaries to be redrawn as they were 30 years ago
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
Actually I'm suprised they haven't tried that - surely you guys would have a good case
 

melon....

Coach
Messages
13,458
brook said:
Actually I'm suprised they haven't tried that - surely you guys would have a good case
That depends what the deal was and how easy the incompitence of the Ron Jones Admnistration made it for Souths.

One thing's for sure...its a bloody shame, clubs like Souths have a huge junior area, regardless of its origins, and yet cant do anything but win spoons.
 

melon....

Coach
Messages
13,458
Mighty Tiger said:
melon good post

I think you will find that the people who post the rubish about the Roosters stealing juniors etc are thinking back 10yrs ago when well it did happen, however I bet had any other clubs at the time had the money and common sense that the Roosters had back then that they would of dropped everything to be in the same position.

I think stealing of juniors is the wrong terminolgy because in this day and age its very rare to see clubs with more than 10% juniors in the top squad anyway. Then many at those clubs claim juniors as their own when they arn't because yet again those really have no clue

A few on the Wests Tigers official forum have talked about how the Roosters "poached" Pangai, Plum and Parker over the 2 years but failed to realise that we appeared to have won the comp with plenty of our own juniors and that had they have gone to any other club no one would of been talking about that club as stealing these players. On top of this Plummy and Parker probably would never have got a run at the Wests Tigers and Pangai even though he is young would probably find himself waiting a longer than expected time to push himself in front of the current line up.

Further to this I pointed out that the Bulldogs signed Small, Roberts, Koupa this year (3 players to the Bulldogs 2 to the Roosters) and well people said but the Bulldogs need players in those positions - WTF???

Anyway just thought I would let you guys know that not all fans think the Roosters steal juniors from other clubs etc, sure I don't like it that Pangai will be running around with you guys for the next 2yrs but I blame that on the Wests Tigers incompitance
On Plum Mighty Tig, I really liked what he did last year when given the chance, and I expect him to feature regularly in our top 17 in 2006.
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
melon.... said:
On Plum Mighty Tig, I really liked what he did last year when given the chance, and I expect him to feature regularly in our top 17 in 2006.

Keep your eye on Dave Pangai - the kid is going to be the one that comes back and bites us 'cause he'll do great things.
 

Mighty Tiger

Bench
Messages
4,075
ozzie said:
I recall Maroubra was one of our junior areas and when the boundaries were redrawn we finished up with the CBD and Souths with that area. I am sure we can get a junior team from the CBD. You know the ones who lives on the quay railway station. I sometimes wonder why the Roosters don't put in for the boundaries to be redrawn as they were 30 years ago

Mate I don't understand that either - to be honest with the way the ARL is trying to setup "junior safe haven boundaries" for the NRL clubs I'm sure it would be given to you guys if the Roosters approached them to reconsider the boundary haven line
 

Mighty Tiger

Bench
Messages
4,075
melon.... said:
On Plum Mighty Tig, I really liked what he did last year when given the chance, and I expect him to feature regularly in our top 17 in 2006.

Mate he goes and has no fear, problem has always been consistancy and not doing things 100 miles an hour all the time (both in attack and defence), if he can harness this then he has the potential to be a starter in the NRL to be honest

Shuey is a perfect example at the wolves he used to go 100 miles and hour but curbed that and well last year was a susprise packet for many people who hadn't seen him before

You also got Parker who is a big islander prop (think he is kiwi actually) and the only prop I have seen take on Jeff Lima and win with a shoulder charge several times during one game as well. If he stays injury free he could also be a surprise packet for you guys

Your forward depth is as bad as some think, sure its not expereinced but this day and age I think expereince is blown out of the water and used as an excuse a fair bit

As brook says I think the biggest suprise packet would be Dave Pangai this kid is going to be a superstar, he started to show consistancy last year and why the Wests Tigers wanted Moke over him I have no clue, they lost Pangai, didn't get Moke but instead managed to sign McGoldrick and get Elford back - a loss I know will bit us on the backside in years to come!

If Cross/Soliola gets injured or Cross plays rep footy next year I think Pangai could very well play his 1st NRL matches next year - and he won't let anyone down I'm 100% positive about that!
 

rabbitville

Guest
Messages
61
melon.... said:
The point is, there are only 4 junior clubs directly linked with The Roosters as Local Juniors. St.Charles, Paddington, Clovelly and Bondi United.

That is just bull...Clovelly should be part of Souths too :D

You're lucky Souths Juniors let you play in our Jnr competition. Otherwise, you'd have to play with St Merge, or Manly!!
 

melon....

Coach
Messages
13,458
rabbitville said:
That is just bull...Clovelly should be part of Souths too :D

You're lucky Souths Juniors let you play in our Jnr competition. Otherwise, you'd have to play with St Merge, or Manly!!
Your lucky Souths Juniors let you use THEIR players. South Sydney Rabbitohs DRLFC have no juniors.
 

Latest posts

Top