The Swamp I

[Southernsaint]

I don't mind - "It's good to talk" ;-)

 

[bender]

btwlol you still haven't revealed what these odds were. They must be slippery.
FYI, Saints played with out both Ryles and Bailey for large portions of the year.
Luke Bailey 7 games
Trent Barrett 16 games
Jason Ryles 14 games
You were trying to predict things based on 2003 form without considering other rising players.

If my memory serves me correct, St George struggled for their first 7 or 8 games or so. I could be wrong as im not a stgeorge supporter but early on they looked like an ordinary side until I think it was Barrett returned from injury to steer them around the park. I am not sure, but Ryles and Bailey may have also returned at the same time. That is what turned them around and from there, i will admit some of their younger unheralded players started to improve and continue to get better.

I do agree that i underestimated the rising players that you talk about, although it was not so much that i underestimated them as the fact that rising players by their nature can fall as easy as they rise. That was the basis of my assertion that Saints would have been a decent bet for the spoon at the right odds. I think that Saints have overacheived this season, and should be congratulated on their season. Next year, at this stage, i think they are probably a borderline top 8 side although i havent looked at the squads of others to comment just yet.

The reason we first got onto this discussion (from my side of things) dates back a number of years to the old LWOS forum. It is my opinion that StGIlla when they merged were a great merger and for several years, StGilla went along concentrating solely on their own juniors of which they have a great nursery. And unlike most clubs (sydney clubs in particular) When they had a couple of years without being contenders (even now i dont think they are one of the top 4 teams on paper) the supporters attacked them as underachievers and wanted players to be bought to fix them up.

This is when they started buying average players like Willie Peters and others to plug gaps that juniors should be filling. This year they have bought Albert Torrens. A solid player who should never play for St George. I have no idea why clubs buy these average players and even Brisbane are starting to fall into the habit after buying guys like Mapp, etc in recent years. I think this is a silly form of purchasing particularly when Torrens is bought and Kite, a local junior is let go. St Gilla need probably 2 or 3 class players to be a premiership hotshot for next year, and realistically I probably rate them just behind the genuine threats (Bulldogs, Roosters, Broncos, Panthers etc) but above the (Dwellers - Souths, Manly etc). I will say, that they are capable of overachieving as they have done many times in the past and winning. With the improvement of some of last years fringe guys they arent anywhere near as likely to crash and finish near the bottom as last years side was.

ON their actual side:

The back three for St George are very ordinary and this is one of the areas they desperately need to strengthen and unearth a young star. (i dont think Torrens will be the answer). Saying that, I guess there is no better positions to be discovering youngsters than here.

I see their centres as potential premiership winning centres although not as good as the other top pairings in the competition.

Halves, with Barrett playing, STG have a premiership threatening halves pair. I think the youngster you had last year (was it head or firman) will improve. Certainly, the halves arent as good as some others like in the competition but the class of Barret when he is on likens them to a level about the same as a Brisbane, or a roosters from this year but behind say Orford and Hill and one or two others.

Back Row: You will miss Brett Kite. Unless one or preferably two players step up, you would rate in the lower half of the NRL in this area. Someone like Timmins and Thompson are good players but they need to be offset by a class player. Kite had the potential to become that player. Stgila despearately need to unearth another kite.

Front Row: I think you have the best front rowers in the game. although i do question the forward strenght on the bench. Still, if youve got some promising youngsters which i am sure you have i see no better players for them to learn playing beside. Riddell is a little ordinary but in saying that he does seem to get the job done.

All in all, Saints are imo a fringe top 8 side although if they were to click and everything went perfect for them on the injury front, the are capable next year of overachieving and winning the comp but certainly shouldnt be dissappointed with any top 8 finish. Whether I can turn this into a bet with you willow, i will have to wait until later before i decide. Maybe a Broncos v Dragons bet? How do you rate the broncos for next year.

 

[Ribs]

Get your prescription fixed mate.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

The reason we first got onto this discussion (from my side of things) dates back a number of years to the old LWOS forum. It is my opinion that StGIlla when they merged were a great merger and for several years, StGilla went along concentrating solely on their own juniors of which they have a great nursery. And unlike most clubs (sydney clubs in particular) When they had a couple of years without being contenders (even now i dont think they are one of the top 4 teams on paper) the supporters attacked them as underachievers and wanted players to be bought to fix them up.

That's because the whole point of our club merging was that we would be able to compete with the best and be a 'Super Club'. It we are going to be perennial also rans we might as well be stand alone also rans.

And we got Kite from Canberra.

 

[Anonymous]

If my memory serves me correct, St George struggled for their first 7 or 8 games or so. I could be wrong as im not a stgeorge supporter but early on they looked like an ordinary side until I think it was Barrett returned from injury to steer them around the park. I am not sure, but Ryles and Bailey may have also returned at the same time. That is what turned them around and from there, i will admit some of their younger unheralded players started to improve and continue to get better.

Saints won 5 from the first 8 games.
Round 1 (with Barrett) lost
Round 2 (no Barrett) won
Round 3 (with Barrett) lost
Round 4 (with Barrett) won
Round 5 (with Barrett) won
Round 6 (with Barrett) won
Round 7 (no Barrett) lost
Round 8 (no Barrett) won

A mixed bag and nothing conclusive there. BTW, Round 7 was vs the Roosters when Saints had Gasnier playing at five eighth and lost narrowly, and were probably unlucky.

Luke Bailey played 5 of the first 8 (rounds 1, 3, 4, 5 & 6) and was ruled out after round 9, not to be seen again until the semi-finals.
Jason Ryles did return by round 9 and played 14 games.
In any case, it's debatable whether Saints struggled to win in the earlier rounds having won 5 from 8.

The reason we first got onto this discussion (from my side of things) dates back a number of years to the old LWOS forum.

Yeah I remeber and fair enough about them being under achievers. IMO, we should have done better this year. But I don't blame anyone for last year.

ON their actual side:

The back three for St George are very ordinary and this is one of the areas they desperately need to strengthen and unearth a young star. (i dont think Torrens will be the answer). Saying that, I guess there is no better positions to be discovering youngsters than here.

I disagree. Hornby is a solid fullback and Simmonds is one of the most underated wingers in the competition. With the departure of Blacklock, they seem to have bought a truckload of outside backs for next season as well as a few coming through.

I see their centres as potential premiership winning centres although not as good as the other top pairings in the competition.

Gasnier and Cooper? Well they are both near enough to first choice for the rep selectors now except that Gasnier is injured. Who do think are the better centres?

Halves, with Barrett playing, STG have a premiership threatening halves pair. I think the youngster you had last year (was it head or firman) will improve.

You need to get the name right. ;-) Firman broke his leg after round 1 and was shipped out to the Roosters for 2005. Head has been a sensation and was the club's top point scorer for 2004. I think he has superseded the "will improve" stage.

Riddell is a little ordinary but in saying that he does seem to get the job done.

He is playing with Parra next year.
To answer your query regarding the forwards, I don't think Saints have a shortage of stock here. The problem is finding the forwards who have the real ticker to cart it up and tackle all day. IMO, there are not many real 'tough' forwards in the comp.
Thompson and Bailey are our best here and Ryles is turning onto a specialist off-loader.

Whether I can turn this into a bet with you willow, i will have to wait until later before i decide. Maybe a Broncos v Dragons bet? How do you rate the broncos for next year.

I think it's time for the Broncos to get a new coach. Too much emphasis on past warhorses. There was even talk of Bennett re-calling Steve Renouf last year.

 

[bender]

Gasnier and Cooper? Well they are both near enough to first choice for the rep selectors now except that Gasnier is injured. Who do think are the better centres?

Better Centres from this year(as a pairing) would be: Hannay/Bowman; Tate/Berigan; Tonga/Harris;Hodges/Hegarty off the top of my head are better as a whole. I would rate the St G pairing probably next, on par with the Melbourne centres.

Head has been a sensation and was the club's top point scorer for 2004. I think he has superseded the "will improve" stage.

He seems to have gone quite well, but i think sensation is a bit strong. Halfback is a pivotal position and it is near on impossible to be confident in a one season halfback no matter how good they are. Allan Langer; Matt Orford; Andrew Johns etc all took several years before a team can safely say they are set in that position and are a good enough half to win a comp with. Anyone remember Matt Rodwell or Jason Martin??? Head (i get him confused with Firman but then again i also get him confused with Finch that is just my old age setting in i think) hasnt reached that level, yet and i wouldnt be 100% confident about him developing into a premiership winning half. In his advantage is Barrett and when all fit a good front row that can lay an excellent platform for him. But, I still think he needs huge improvement. Dont forget, there was a time when Berrigan was seen as a natural choice for Qld's half and he is now seen as not an option.

He is playing with Parra next year.
To answer your query regarding the forwards, I don't think Saints have a shortage of stock here. The problem is finding the forwards who have the real ticker to cart it up and tackle all day. IMO, there are not many real 'tough' forwards in the comp.
Thompson and Bailey are our best here and Ryles is turning onto a specialist off-loader.

You are probably right about the shortage of tough forwards, that seem to be developing in the game. And what is worst most of the younger ones seem to be Kiwis.

I think it's time for the Broncos to get a new coach. Too much emphasis on past warhorses. There was even talk of Bennett re-calling Steve Renouf last year.

It is quite ironic that in our first years in the comp, i think Bennett cost us a premiership by dropping warhorses like Bryan Niebling in favour of young pretty boys. Personally, I am more than happy with the Broncos for next year and i think as always they are the team to beat. Certainly confident that they will finish ahead of St George.

 

[bender]

That's because the whole point of our club merging was that we would be able to compete with the best and be a 'Super Club'. It we are going to be perennial also rans we might as well be stand alone also rans.

And we got Kite from Canberra.

If you thought that Merging would create a 'superclub' you were kidding yourself. You cant really just buy a superteam anymore because of the Salary cap. The merger was a natural progression. Illawarra and stgeorge were always closely linked, St George needed to expand their juniors and their support base, they needed 8 million dollars, they needed a guarantee that there name Logos and colours stayed in tact, which they did and they needed to ensure financial and long term viablility. You also needed to ensure that you could spend the full salary cap without going broke which you may or may not have been able to without Illawarra and which Illawarra definitely werent going to.

The cold facts are that Illawarra have a growing area and booming juniors. St George are just another Sydney team, but they do bring a huge support base and glowing tradition. They should be desperate to appease Illawarra, which is why I support things like reversing the name to Illawarra StGeorge and playing the full Steelers strip as your alternative. And probably most importantly, not buying any players other than local St George and Illawarra players. If you must buy other players then they must be current Australian or at least origin class players or none at all. That is as close as a side can get to a superpower. If you tried to stand alone, you would just be yet another Standalone Sydney side trying to emulate the roosters (no juniors forcing you to buy a premiership) but no finances making you destined to end up like Souths.

 

[Anonymous]

Head has been a sensation and was the club's top point scorer for 2004. I think he has superseded the "will improve" stage.

He seems to have gone quite well, but i think sensation is a bit strong. Halfback is a pivotal position and it is near on impossible to be confident in a one season halfback no matter how good they are. Allan Langer; Matt Orford; Andrew Johns etc all took several years before a team can safely say they are set in that position and are a good enough half to win a comp with. Anyone remember Matt Rodwell or Jason Martin??? Head (i get him confused with Firman but then again i also get him confused with Finch that is just my old age setting in i think) hasnt reached that level, yet and i wouldnt be 100% confident about him developing into a premiership winning half. In his advantage is Barrett and when all fit a good front row that can lay an excellent platform for him. But, I still think he needs huge improvement. Dont forget, there was a time when Berrigan was seen as a natural choice for Qld's half and he is now seen as not an option.

I didn't say he was the next Johns... he'll be his own player.
Poor Firman was copping all that nonsense and being compared to Johns. They both had one thing in common though... in 2004, they both watched most games from the sideline.

Sensation
n.
3.
b. A cause of such interest and excitement.

I reckon Head fits that billing.

btw, I always thought Berrigan was overated.

 

[Ribs]

I think what he meant to say is that they tried to sell it to us as a 'super club' but nobody here would think that had any meaning.

You are way off the mark with your assessment of our side may i add.

Hegarty and Hodges over Gasnier and Cooper?

Gasnier and Cooper are the NSW centres........... for a reason.

As for the back 3, Hornby is not a quiet achiever anymore, it is widely accepted that he is the second best fullback behind Mini in NSW and I would have him over Mini any day due to his ability to kick and move the ball.

As for leaving us behind Penrith in your assessment, have a look at the home and away results against them this year.

44 - 18 Round 6 and 28 - 8 Round 14. Had it not been for the bye, the one point loss in the finals may well have been a different result.

You also put Tate and Berrigan over our centres but if we base it on strike power, the stats make you look foolish.

Gasnier 11 tries from 12 games
Cooper 17 tries from 23 games

Tate 5 tries from 22 games (is he serious?)
Berrigan 9 tries from 16 games

What you need to do my friend is some homework before making statements such as the ones above.

Lots of homework. At the moment you are way off the mark.

As for giving more to Illawarra, Saints had the finances to stand alone and Illawarra did not. They have a team down there to follow and they should be happy with it.

 

[Southernsaint]

Bender by name, bender by nature...

 

[bender]

Hegarty and Hodges over Gasnier and Cooper?

Gasnier and Cooper are the NSW centres........... for a reason.

Yes, that reason is that Bowman, tate, Berrigan, Hodges, Hegarty etc are all Queenslanders!!! Plus Vagana is a Kiwi and Keith Senior is a pom.

As for the back 3, Hornby is not a quiet achiever anymore, it is widely accepted that he is the second best fullback behind Mini in NSW and I would have him over Mini any day due to his ability to kick and move the ball.

I would have thought Luke Patton would dispute that statement and if he ever hits form again so would Peachey or even Hodgson. Still, even without those two, that leaves Bowen, Schifcofsky, Wesser, Hunt and arguably Brent Webb ahead of him.

As for leaving us behind Penrith in your assessment, have a look at the home and away results against them this year.

44 - 18 Round 6 and 28 - 8 Round 14. Had it not been for the bye, the one point loss in the finals may well have been a different result.

I do agree and i did state that St George had an excellent season last year and they overachieved. IMO, St Gilla (for the players they have had) have played very well and had brilliant results since their merger. That is the signof a good club and good club spirit. But, i think they are overated. Compare next years side to the side that lost to Brisbane two years in a row and I think you will find that this side is not as strong. Whether players will improve next year again, like they did this year, and they can become a comparable or better side is the test. If they do improve, they will be one of the sides to beat. If they dont, they will just scrape into the 8.

You also put Tate and Berrigan over our centres but if we base it on strike power, the stats make you look foolish.

Gasnier 11 tries from 12 games
Cooper 17 tries from 23 games

Tate 5 tries from 22 games (is he serious?)
Berrigan 9 tries from 16 games

Chris walker has a good strike rate as a centre playing for Brisbane - Do you rate him highly? Gasnier and Cooper are quite young, talented and improving. If they hit their very best form, they may become the leading centres in the game at this point they are not quite.

What you need to do my friend is some homework before making statements such as the ones above.

Lots of homework. At the moment you are way off the mark.

Some Knowledgeable Saints supporters have already given me some lessons. Head is one who may be better than i thought and so is Hornby (i never thought of him as close to the second best in NSW) I will keep an eye on both next time i watch saints. Still, even allowing for those two developing and me slightly underestimating one or two others, there is still no way of saying I am way off the mark unless you are dreaming (a supporters right i guess).

As for giving more to Illawarra, Saints had the finances to stand alone and Illawarra did not. They have a team down there to follow and they should be happy with it.

This is the whole point everyone seems to miss. The decision to merge has been made. Why fight it. Who cares if Illawarra had brought Nothing to the the table and saints were owned by Rupert Murdoch? Saints made a decision to merge and adopt Illawarra supporters. There is (or should be no difference between the two clubs as they are one). Saints play as i understand 1 or 2 games at Kogarah each year. This doesnt effect Illawarra at all but it pleases St George supporters therefore it is a good thing. Using the steellers as an away strip (less badge if its an issue) has no effect on StG fans whatsoever so why would you do it. Same with the Illawarra Stgeorge name. You will still be the St George Dragons, and St George will always be the team name, it just ensures that the Illawarra part isnt totally forgotten as happens now with Canterburty bankstown, Cronulla sutherland Sharks etc. Either way it makes no difference at all to St George fans.

 

[Ribs]

My point is that you are referring to Gasnier and Cooper as up and comers, yet they are and will be the centre pairing for NSW.

Hegarty is an ok winger at best and Hodges' form has been disgraceful for the better part of 6 months.

I noticed you didnt make too much of Tate's strike power. 5 tries in 23 appearances is pathetic and he hasnt done anything to warrant selection in the test side, besides marry Bennetts daughter.

You just dont seem to have a grasp of the talent of Gasnier and Cooper and to be honest, I havent met too many people who share your opinion.

Its laughable that you use Walker as an example, he cant tackle and isnt even first grade material. Cooper is one of the best defensive centres in the game and Gasnier certainly isnt a defensive weakness.

Hornby played in Origin one and was a shock omission fromt he remaining games, are you aware he played Origin this year?

Saints owned by Rupert Murdoch? Are you serious? Are you thinking of the Sharks or just trying to make some point?

You seem to have plenty to say but based on incorrect information. Since when do Saints play 1 or 2 games at Kogarah? Have you been out of the country?

We need 2 or 3 class players???

Ryles/Bailey/Timmins/Barrett/Gasnier/Cooper/Hornby/Thompson are all rep players (Thommo for City) and you say we need more? Have you heard of the salary cap.

Mate, you're a total goose.

 

[bender]

My point is that you are referring to Gasnier and Cooper as up and comers, yet they are and will be the centre pairing for NSW.

Ok, I accept your point. I have used language a little strong. Remember, I also said they were potential premiership winning centres. They are not clearly the two best centres in the competition, as the other combinations i mentioned are every bit as good as them. Amongst the top 8 teams they dont give Saints any particular advantage over the other sides at the moment. They may this time next year. Will they be the centre pairing for NSW if Lyons returns with a host of tries, or if Gidley bags a heap of tries for Newcastle, I doubt it. And even if they are, there are still plenty of players from Queensland on par or ahead of them even though they are good players.

Hegarty is an ok winger at best and Hodges' form has been disgraceful for the better part of 6 months.

The problem is that many people cloud their hate for a team/player with their ability on the football field. Hodges when he played for australia was a class above Gasnier and Cooper from last year. This year he had a poor year by those standards and I would see he has dropped back to roughly their level (still a good year). According to some people Walker cant tackle and is the worst player in the game; Hodges had a discraceful last 6 months; Crocker gives away 2 many silly penalties and is a thug who cant play; Fittler is old and overated; Finch makes too many mistakes, yet the side still finished second and along with Canterbury were a class above everybody else this year. Hodges and Hegarty (or Cross) or even Walker despite maybe being dickheads are still very good players.

I noticed you didnt make too much of Tate's strike power. 5 tries in 23 appearances is pathetic and he hasnt done anything to warrant selection in the test side, besides marry Bennetts daughter.

I never knew that, I thought it was Ikin who married Bennetts daughter. Does he have a second daughter? I havent argued Tates strike rate for a pretty good reason. I think he is a very good player whom i rate about the same level as Gasnier and Cooper maybe a shade better but maybe not, it would depend on form. I wouldnt have put him in my australian side.

You just dont seem to have a grasp of the talent of Gasnier and Cooper and to be honest, I havent met too many people who share your opinion.

Not at all, I think it is more a case that you dont seem to have a grasp of the talent of some of the other players going around at the moment.

Its laughable that you use Walker as an example, he cant tackle and isnt even first grade material. Cooper is one of the best defensive centres in the game and Gasnier certainly isnt a defensive weakness.

Walker was used to prove that strike rate is not the be all and all. How about Steve Menzies he has the best strike rate of any second rower in the game ever, but he is hardly the greatest second rower ever.

Hornby played in Origin one and was a shock omission fromt he remaining games, are you aware he played Origin this year?

My recollection is that he was a shock selection ahead of Patton, because Minichello and was unavailable and Peachey and Hodgson were either injured or out of form. And it was also widely recognised that NSW had no decent fulbacks remember the jokes that NSW wanted to swap some halfbacks for fulbacks.

Saints owned by Rupert Murdoch? Are you serious? Are you thinking of the Sharks or just trying to make some point?

No i was just making a point that if they were as rich as could be. Dont wish to argue Superleague/ant murdoch just yet.

You seem to have plenty to say but based on incorrect information. Since when do Saints play 1 or 2 games at Kogarah? Have you been out of the country?

I thought they packed it for a game or two this year or last year. Though saying that, wasnt i asking a question rather than making a statement? If Saints dont play 1 or 2 game at Kogarah each year surely that is a joke isnt it. Do the St George faction of the merger even care about tradition?

Have you been out of the country?

I live in another state and cheer for a different team. It is hardly surprising that I dont have an intimite knowledge of one of about 8 sydney teams that finished 7th in the playoff series of a 15 team competion.

We need 2 or 3 class players???

Ryles/Bailey/Timmins/Barrett/Gasnier/Cooper/Hornby/Thompson are all rep players (Thommo for City) and you say we need more? Have you heard of the salary cap.

Sadly, it has been a long time since St George won a premiership and you seem to forget how to do it. You have just listed 8 class players (and there is no way known to earth that Thomson is a class player although i will give him the benefit of the doubt). Sadly, that is 2 or 3 class players short of a premiership winning side.

Look at Canterbury
Patten/ElMasri/Tonga/Utai/Anasta/Sherwin/Bill Williams/Asotasi/Price/Mason/OMeley are all origin or test class players (or if not, within in an inch of attaining this level) plust the remaining players are all solid first graders in very good form. Roosters are the same and then it becomes arguable with Brisbane, Penrith, and Melbourne. Even the cowboys this year had:
Bowen, Bowman, Hannay, Fien, Norton, Morrisson, Campion, Odonnell, Rauhihi with Williams, Payne and Tronc taking the extra step up in Class during the finals series. To be a real threat, you need at least two or 3 players to take the step up in class and everyone else to perform.

 

[borat]

Bender youy clearly do not have a clue. You fail to mention that both Hodges and Hegarty spent a quite a bit of time in Resverve Grade because their form was not up to scratch. The combination of Hodges and Hegarty may have been ok 2 or 3 years ago but today they are a shadow of their former selves. Neither players were given the slightest consideration for the test squad and gasnier would have been an absolute certainty had he not been injured for the latter part of the season. Wayne Bennett has judged Tate's form appropriately and has him behind all other centres in the squad as it was Cooper who was placed on standby for Tonga for this weekends test.
Remember, Gasnier and Cooper are the ciurrent NSW centres and like it or not NSW are vastly supperior. We have the SOO trophy to prove it. Tate, Hannay, Bowmen, Hodges they are all very, very, very ordinary and that is why they play for the ordinary state. Down here mate we have to earn our SOO caps, not just get them because there is no one else.

You want to talk about Patten!! Tell me which Rep games he has played in? Patten has been around for a long time and is no better than 7 or 8 current fullbacks in the comp. Hornby has already represented NSW at quite a young age and will earn earn more caps in the future. Patten on the other hand has two years left in his career will never see a NSW jersey.

My recollection is that he was a shock selection ahead of Patton, because Minichello and was unavailable and Peachey and Hodgson were either injured or out of form. And it was also widely recognised that NSW had no decent fulbacks remember the jokes that NSW wanted to swap some halfbacks for fulbacks

Your recollection? You have no recollection because your knowledge of the game is p*sspoor at best. You so out of your depth here mate. Your posts are riddled with errors and you make no sense whatsoever. Hornby was selected due to Phil Gould wanting to shift Minichelo to the wing because Gould thought there was a shortage of quality wingers. Gould wanted a back three that could run the ball out at speed and he did not want Rooney on the wing because he did not think he was up to it. This all turned out to be irrelevent because of Gasnier's later exclusion. Hornby was chosen on merrit alone and is a far better player than Luke Patten, Hodgson or any of the others you want to throw around.

 

[Ribs]

I think the bottom line is that if you think we only played 1 or 2 games at Kogarah this year, and you admit you arent sure, then you didnt watch many of our games at all.

This would explain your theories on our playing talent.

If you dont watch, you dont know. Simple.

Lyon and Gidley? :?

 

[borat]

Sadly, it has been a long time since St George won a premiership and you seem to forget how to do it. You have just listed 8 class players (and there is no way known to earth that Thomson is a class player although i will give him the benefit of the doubt). Sadly, that is 2 or 3 class players short of a premiership winning side.

Look at Canterbury
Patten/ElMasri/Tonga/Utai/Anasta/Sherwin/Bill Williams/Asotasi/Price/Mason/OMeley are all origin or test class players (or if not, within in an inch of attaining this level) plust the remaining players are all solid first graders in very good form. Roosters are the same and then it becomes arguable with Brisbane, Penrith, and Melbourne. Even the cowboys this year had:
Bowen, Bowman, Hannay, Fien, Norton, Morrisson, Campion, Odonnell, Rauhihi with Williams, Payne and Tronc taking the extra step up in Class during the finals series. To be a real threat, you need at least two or 3 players to take the step up in class and everyone else to perform.

Bender this is some of the biggest dribble I have ever heard. Just go and crawl back under the rock that you came from. If you followed the game you would know that Lance Thompson was talked about as a certainty for origin this year before he got injured. Ontop of that we have Kite, Ryles, Hornby, Gasnier, Cooper, Timmins & Barrett who all played SOO this year plus Kite, Ryles, Timmins & Cooper who have earned Australian selection. We have class players coming out of our ar*ehole. Its getting all these guys to stay on the park and to play well as a team is our problem. I don't think you could even begin to say that Nth Qld have any class players, they have good players that play very, very well as a team.

If you want to talk about struggling teams lets talk about the broncos who choke in the finals, haven't even won a finals game in how long, lost their captain and most influential player. Broncos are struggling no matter how you want to sugar coat it.

 

[Anonymous]

I thought they packed it for a game or two this year or last year.

No, 5 games last year, 4 games this year. It would be more if we had lights and that's on the agenda for 2005-2006 with a possible 8 million upgrade planned. But why am I telling you this? You'll have forgotten it by next year when this thread is resurrected again. :lol:

Though saying that, wasnt i asking a question rather than making a statement?

No, you made a statement:

"Saints play as i understand 1 or 2 games at Kogarah each year. This doesnt effect Illawarra at all but it pleases St George supporters therefore it is a good thing."

That's not a question.

I live in another state and cheer for a different team. It is hardly surprising that I dont have an intimite knowledge...

lol... with respect mate, it hasn't stopped you firing blanks.

 

[bender]

Bender this is some of the biggest dribble I have ever heard. Just go and crawl back under the rock that you came from. If you followed the game you would know that Lance Thompson was talked about as a certainty for origin this year before he got injured.

:lol: Keep it a bit real. Everyone else has at least argued sensibly.

Lance Thompson is experienced and a solid 1st grade player. If you think that he was ever a certainty for origin selection (injury or not) then it is pointless arguing with you. Are you going to tell me that he is playing so much better last year than ever before that he went from never being in calculations to being a certainty.

Ontop of that we have Kite, Ryles, Hornby, Gasnier, Cooper, Timmins & Barrett who all played SOO this year plus Kite, Ryles, Timmins & Cooper who have earned Australian selection. We have class players coming out of our ar*ehole. Its getting all these guys to stay on the park and to play well as a team is our problem. I don't think you could even begin to say that Nth Qld have any class players, they have good players that play very, very well as a team.

You dont have kite any more. Regardless though, you have 7 players with origin experience and 4 test players. The cowboys who have no class players according to you. Yet they had Bowen, Hannay, Bowman, Fien, Norton, Campion, Sing, Plus Rauhihi, Sing, Bowen, have also reached test status. How is one class all over and the other nobodies.

If you want to talk about struggling teams lets talk about the broncos who choke in the finals, haven't even won a finals game in how long, lost their captain and most influential player. Broncos are struggling no matter how you want to sugar coat it.

I didnt really want to talk about the Broncos as we will start with one of our worst team in history, yet we will still have an overall better side than St George have and we will finish in the top 8, like we have in every single year we have entered the competition.

Next years side has
Hunt - Would have been a NZ test player this year if he elected to play for NZ.
Tupou - Inexperienced
Kelly - Origin experience
Berrigan - Test Player
Tate - Test Player
Hodges - Test Player
Lockyer - Test Captain
Seymour - Inexperienced
Carroll - Test Player
Carlaw - Test Player
Thorne - Test Player
Webcke - Test Player
Costigan - Inexperienced
Civonoceva - Test Player
Parker - Origin

So that is by my quick count 8 Test Players 2 origin experienced players.As well as One player who was as good as an origin certainty. And a host of talented young players. I look forward to bringing the thread up this time next year when the Broncos are sailing along at the top and you are accussing us of Rorting the system like Canterbury and the Roosters are accused of now adays.

 

[Ribs]

The broncos are heading south bender......... the finals this year showed a very tired team, a very tired coach and some very tired ideas.

Like I said, its obvious you havent even watched Saints play this season, yet you have no worries throwing around opnions based on little information.

Yes, Lance Thompson was regarded as a very good chance of getting a bench spot for NSW and his form this year was excellent. I wouldnt trade him for anyone as his skill and inspiration to those playing with him are priceless. The media down here were reporting it, you wouldnt have known.

Origin players from the Broncos? Im shocked.... The fact that you were soundly beaten in the series means nothing to you does it?

Last game NSW had 5, yes 5, Dragons in it and we beat your combined Broncos/Cowboys side.

Kite/Ryles/Timmins/Gasnier/Cooper/ Barrett... hang on thats 6. Someone must have been injured......

We lose Kite but Bailey is a walk up starter in the test team and you know it.

We oooooooooooooooooze class my friend.

 

[borat]

Really well lets see. lance Thompson played for City, was in the NSW 30 man train on squad named before the series.

This is what Gould said after the SOO1 side was announced in the age

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/17/1084646123958.html?from=storylhs

"(From) his (Clinton's) last game to the Origin game is a month and that's a long time," Gould said.

"We thought the same with Timana Tahu, who's been there before, we thought the same with Lance Thompson.

"Effectively we didn't consider them.

You should read that article because it goes on to show how wrong you were about Hornby.



Then we have this article by written by Adam Burnett on SportsAustralia.com
http://sportsaustralia.com/articles/may04/artid1462.html

Canberra’s Ryan O’Hara and Canterbury’s Mark O’Meley have also benefited from injuries to other potential origin candidates, most notably St George Illawarra’s Lance Thompson, and the Panthers Joel Clinton. Both front-rowers selected have been strong at club level and will be supported off the bench by Dragons debutant Brent Kite and the Bulldogs Willie Mason.

But best of all we have this article your own beloved Broncos website by Dan Koch:-
http://www.broncos.com.au/index.cfm?TopMenuID=266&MenuID=270&NewsID=880

Meanwhile the NSW camp has some injury concerns of its own, with star forwards Jason Ryles (knee) and Ben Kennedy (Hamstring) unlikely to be available after aggravating old injuries over the weekend.

The Blues are already without skipper Andrew Johns, Knights teammates Steve Simpson and Timana Tahu and Dragons trio Lance Thompson, Trent Barrett and Luke Bailey because of injury. Impressive young St George centre Matt Cooper is also in doubt after injuring himself in his side’s loss to the Bulldogs.

So it seems to me numbnuts that your opinion is so deluded that not even the Broncos agree with you.

I can keep pulling eveidence all day if you like. Care to provide one ounce of anything that backs up your shortsighted, ill conceived, poorly thoughtout sh*te.

You can go on all you like about the number of Rep players the Broncos and Nth Qld have but when you play for the Powder Puff state just having a pulse is all that required to get a guernsey. Its a wonder queensland even knows what the SOO trophy looks like. I hear that next years criteria for selection is a lucky door prize at the Brisbane show, first 17 through the door get in the team.

Rahihi, Sing and Bowen have reached Test status. I'll give you Sing, Rahihi, or newcastle discard, has played how many test for NZ. NZ mate, second rate team just like QLD. And as far as Bowen is concerend, a couple of bench games for the the Ordinary State and 0 tests for Australia. Keep it in perspective.

And as far as the rest of your crap goes, I would never, ever accuse the Broncos of salary Cap rorting because, quite frankly your dads army of has been former test players aren't even worth the 3.25 mill. Just remember, when it comes to the finals its Broncos Choking Time.

My advice to you Truth Bender is that if you want to come to the Dragons Forum and start spruking on like you have a clue at least gets some sort of facts right.