Tigers to sue NRL, maybe

[yappy]

There is still a part of me that would love to have conferences like the NFL....have a Sydney conference and the out of towners conference.

You would have the best of both worlds.....you can have yer city state teams play and Sydney would get back its "go to every game" tribal feel again.

Im sure all the global game peeps will shout this down,but I think we can have the best of both worlds,Sydney could have as namy teams as it could sustain,and all the regional teams would play all over the country........would love to see a final series with the top 4 from both conferences....the rivalries would be intense.

Cheers.

Leichhardt and Campbelltown would be sardine tins at least once every year eh Simo? I can't imagine enjoying taking two points outta Leichhardt more than I do already, but I'm sure with practice I could manage.;-)

 

[yappy]

I like the conference idea too Simon, but you'd have to have some sort of mingling going on. I don't think Sydney fans wouldn't want to see the likes of Brisbane, NQ, Newcastle and even the Worriers at their grounds. But hey maybe that could be in a challenge cup type comp that complemented the premiership?

 

[simon says]

Id like to see two groups of ten play eachother home and away style......ten Sydney teams and ten ouy of Sydney teams do the same....I really miss the home/away bit.Dont think the comp is fait unless you play all teams home and away.

The top four from both play off.....

 

[meltiger]

As good as it may sound to some... Conferences wouldn't work, you'd just end up with a strong conference (Non Sydney) and a weak conference (Sydney) just like the NFL had for years.

All this litigation talk is grandstanding anyway.

Wests lost their case in the 80's - The competition's administrator's had the right to admit not admit whoever they pleased - Just like with Souths. They were readmitted for PR reasons ... Not because they had too.

On what basis could Balmain or Western Suburbs sue? That it was the NRL's fault they were too gutless to stand and fight for their future? At the end of the day, the League reserves the right to invite whoever they please to compete.

The club has asked the fans of Balmain to accept the bastardisation of the Tiger name & in turn the merger... Maybe the Western Suburbs members of the club should do the same thing instead of grandstanding (Not you Yappy - Noyce and his cronies).

What you are essentially saying is that we really don't want to be in this position (ie: Merged) - How are people like me supposed to finally turn and support them when even the clubs leadership make it abundantly clear they don't want the merger?

 

[yappy]

I agree with you Melts - it's just grandstanding. We gave up our right to complain when we took Murdoch's blood money to merge. Who knows though, the NRL might just sling em a bit more dough to shut em up. If so it will have been worth it.

I don't know that a Sydney based conference would be the weak one though Melts. Sydney is a BIG place compared to the rest of Australia (Melb excluded, but they don't count in the League scheme of things). Most of the problems Sydney-based clubs have faced recently were contrived by people with an ideological agenda to cut the number of Sydney clubs. If they had all been left to their own devices they mostly would have been fine. It's been the expansion sides (excluding Brisbane) that have needed the leg up to compete with them.

The country has a population of 20.3 mil. To League though the real pop is NSW and Qld, with dribs and drabs (hopefully growing) everywhere else. Qld has a population of 3.9 of which Brisbane makes up only 1.8 mil. Gold Coast has 0.5mil. Queensland has a Gross State Product (GSP) at around 90% of the National average. In other words the Queensland economy is smaller per head of population than the national average.

NSW has a much more concentrated population. Sydney is 4.2mil out of 6.7mil with Newcastle just over 0.5mil and Wollongong 0.3mil. Canberra is about the same as Wollongong (bit bigger). NSW's GSP at about 105% is easily the biggest of any state (only the ACT and NT have a higher rate). NSW is the powerhouse of the Australian economy. Unlike Qld which has a comparatively stronger mining and agricultural economy (meaning Brisbane isn't as important in that state's economy) Sydney is where it is at.

So of the actual rugby league population Sydney has 40% of the rugby league population, and conservatively 42% of the economy. If you discount all of the small regional areas that are obviously never going to be able to support a team these figures become more like 55% of the population and 57% of the economy. So the expectation that Sydney can and should support half of the teams in the competition is far from unreasonable. If the areas of Sydney that have been denied a full time team through mergers and culling were anywhere else in the country people would be screaming blue murder and with good reason.

I'm all for the Gold Coast having a team, and think in time Brisbane should be able to support a second side as well, but 4 would have to be Qld's limit. No one though should delude themselves that Sydney needs to cull it's sides for the health of the game. Quite the opposite is the case.

(all stats from the Bureau of Statistics www.abs.gov.au)

 

[galahs]

The one thing people wanting to move clubs here there and everywhere to cover all the blank spots on the map fail to take into account is the emotion/passion without this football is as good as dead.

Allrighty then, don't relocate Souths, just banish them from the NRL and enter the central coast!

Mate how do you think we felt when they killed the Magpies, Balmain, Steelers and North Sydney?

Australian Football Association (Soccer) realised single teams from each geographic area is the way forward, and the NRL management also knows it. Sydney already has its team (The Sydney Roosters) and souths aren't even going to play at Sydney any more (Homebush) so whats the difference?

The Macarthur district needs a full time team, the Central Coast needs a full time team, the Illawarra needs a fulltime team.

The wests tigers should service the Macarthur, St George the Illawarra. Souths could tap into the huge market potential of the Central Coast, but if they don't someone else will.

Where does that leave souths? A club with no home ground support, no financial security and no prospects of future playing talent (who wants to play for the wooden spooners?)

 

[griff]

I agree with you Melts - it's just grandstanding. We gave up our right to complain when we took Murdoch's blood money to merge. Who knows though, the NRL might just sling em a bit more dough to shut em up. If so it will have been worth it.

I don't know that a Sydney based conference would be the weak one though Melts. Sydney is a BIG place compared to the rest of Australia (Melb excluded, but they don't count in the League scheme of things). Most of the problems Sydney-based clubs have faced recently were contrived by people with an ideological agenda to cut the number of Sydney clubs. If they had all been left to their own devices they mostly would have been fine. It's been the expansion sides (excluding Brisbane) that have needed the leg up to compete with them.

The country has a population of 20.3 mil. To League though the real pop is NSW and Qld, with dribs and drabs (hopefully growing) everywhere else. Qld has a population of 3.9 of which Brisbane makes up only 1.8 mil. Gold Coast has 0.5mil. Queensland has a Gross State Product (GSP) at around 90% of the National average. In other words the Queensland economy is smaller per head of population than the national average.

NSW has a much more concentrated population. Sydney is 4.2mil out of 6.7mil with Newcastle just over 0.5mil and Wollongong 0.3mil. Canberra is about the same as Wollongong (bit bigger). NSW's GSP at about 105% is easily the biggest of any state (only the ACT and NT have a higher rate). NSW is the powerhouse of the Australian economy. Unlike Qld which has a comparatively stronger mining and agricultural economy (meaning Brisbane isn't as important in that state's economy) Sydney is where it is at.

So of the actual rugby league population Sydney has 40% of the rugby league population, and conservatively 42% of the economy. If you discount all of the small regional areas that are obviously never going to be able to support a team these figures become more like 55% of the population and 57% of the economy. So the expectation that Sydney can and should support half of the teams in the competition is far from unreasonable. If the areas of Sydney that have been denied a full time team through mergers and culling were anywhere else in the country people would be screaming blue murder and with good reason.

I'm all for the Gold Coast having a team, and think in time Brisbane should be able to support a second side as well, but 4 would have to be Qld's limit. No one though should delude themselves that Sydney needs to cull it's sides for the health of the game. Quite the opposite is the case.

(all stats from the Bureau of Statistics www.abs.gov.au)

Alll great points.

 

[galahs]

It depends on how wide an area you are calling "Sydney".

Sydney City is serviced by the roosters
Then we have the bulldogs at homebush which also covers liverpool area.
the eels at the population centre of Sydney, Parramatta.
Penrith covers western sydney
Wests Tigers South West Sydney once they relocate full time to the Macarthur!
Cronulla covers the sutherland shire
St George Illawarra the Wollongong district, once they relocate 'most' of their home games there.

What do souths cover playing at Homebush, or the Sydney Football Stadium?

Who's covering North Sydney or the Central Coast? And on a secondary note, what about Wellington, Perth and Adelaide?

I'm all for the Wests Tigers playing a couple (that's 2) of home games at Leichart against traditional rivals each year but the rest need to be played in the new growth area of the Macarthur.

Again, Souths could play a couple (that's 2) home games a year at Sydney, but the rest on the Central coast.

St George a couple at Kograh, but the rest at WIN. Home grounds need to become true home grounds if we are ever going to rebuild the traditional rivalry. The word is rebuild, because at the moment it is all but destroyed in the greater Sydney area.

 

[LeagueXIII]

I felt the same when they killed these clubs off. I agree that we need teams in these areas but we don't have to kill off clubs like Souths or move teams out of Sydney thus disenfranchising Sydney fans. Souths average 10,896 with a crap team whilst Parra average 14,315 with a winning team, now what would the average be if Souths consistently won, remember they have only been in the comp a couple of years ie. building again from scratch. Sydney is the bedrock of the game and tradition is VERY important, that's why everyone loves Leichhardt or fought for Souths to get back in. All this scaremongering about the CC and losing it to other sports is BS, remember we were going to be over run by union after their world cup, well were we? Did we lose the CC to them?

 

[galahs]

Haven't you already lost souths to Homebush?

A rename to the Homebush Rabbitohs is maybe in order.

How many more teams do we want playing home games out of Homebush? Whats worse is Wests are playing their home game against the Bulldogs at Homebush. But isn't Homebush the doggies home ground?

Maybe the real plan is to merge all three teams and have the South Western Bulldogs (joking)

 

[ngunity]

This should be a simple one for the NRL to solve if West Tigers is serious. Tell the individual clubs to submit individual bids to see if they're viable in the poker-machine punished state of NSW

Good bet Central Coasts bid looks much stronger and poor old Wests and Tigers fans will never be able to shout for their individual teams again.

I feel sad for merged clubs fans, I'd be distraught with a 'Parramatta Bulldogs' ;-) outfit for sure. It'd make me sick

 

[galahs]

I don't care so much about splitting up the wests tigers, I just want them to play more (read: most) of their home games at Campbelltown.

If they wont, THEN I say bring back the magpies who will!

Mate we love our pokies out this way! (unfortunatley)

 

[LeagueXIII]

Bring back the Tigers and Magpies.

 

[yappy]

I wouldn't be in such a rush to kill off the Bunnies Galahs. They fought the good fight, and they'll come good. This is what Murdoch has brought to the game - if you're having a bit of a downturn in fortunes then it's the arse for you? Souths have (finally) got the back office fixed and so they'll get themselves together. People are going overboard on the effect GC will have on them. GC are going to find it just as hard as Souths, and even if they do make some pick ups, they can't sign everyone. Souths then come right into it - their money is as good as anyone elses, and cold hard cash is a universal language.

Who would have thought 3 years ago Newcastle would be where they are? But they'll do a deal with Con or Wests Newy and be back up sooner than later. Easts were known as the 'transit lounge' until Gus got there - it wasn't that long ago. It's the cyclical nature of things. If clubs where simply allowed to work it out for themselves without the 'criteria' and other BS we've had to endure over the past decade things would work out just fine.

AFL might suck the big one, but we could learn a few things from them. They don't go looking for excuses to kill off clubs. Even Fitzroy were given plenty of time to finally find a good deal without having some turkey setting deadlines and ruling out options (didn't the NRL kill off Balmain investigating merging with the Gold Coast? - and now we're going back there?). A bit more respect for all clubs and their fans (especially the oldest and most successful club still in the NRL) wouldn't go astray.

The numbers show that Sydney can easily cope with the teams it has now, could probably bring back a lost club, AND get the Teddies back up at Gosford. All of them would survive just fine, whilst the likes of Melbourne will need handouts for a long time, NQ would have died years ago without News Ltd doing the same, and even strong regional areas like Newcastle are no quarantee. Comparing every club to Brisbane is just silly - they are an exception, and eventually a second Brisbane side will come in and they won't look so hot.

The 'there's not enough players' argument is just so much rubbish. For a year or two there would be an imbalance, but it would sort itself out quick enough. So long as the cap is enforced it will happen even faster. Like any profession more opportunities attracts more talent. It doesn't wash. Just like most of the ideas Super League brought to the game (scorer kicks off?) it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If the NRL really wanted to get the game moving forward they'd give the merged sides the option, and get the Teddies up for 07 along with GC. I'm assuming (only from what I know of Illawarra's finances) That St Gilla wouldn't want to split, but Wests would be gone like a shot, and Balmain would find a way. A fitting way to celebrate the 100th season of the game to have three of the originals back where they belong.

 

[LeagueXIII]

Couldn't agree more, except the NRL don't have ideas they just copy the NFL. The SMH today says that in the next 25 years Sydney's population will increase by 1 million now why do they want to decrease teams in Sydney? If the GC deserve a team because a couple of hundred thousand increase in population (most of whom are southerners). Could it be that the NRL want to free up the south of sydney for the Roosters, move Souths out, St.George to Wollongong and Cronulla? No clubs should leave Sydney, in fact with the TV contract in about 2011/12 I wouldn't be surprised if we increase to an ideal 18 teams.

 

[mightybears]

I wouldn't be in such a rush to kill off the Bunnies Galahs. They fought the good fight, and they'll come good. This is what Murdoch has brought to the game - if you're having a bit of a downturn in fortunes then it's the arse for you? Souths have (finally) got the back office fixed and so they'll get themselves together. People are going overboard on the effect GC will have on them. GC are going to find it just as hard as Souths, and even if they do make some pick ups, they can't sign everyone. Souths then come right into it - their money is as good as anyone elses, and cold hard cash is a universal language.

Who would have thought 3 years ago Newcastle would be where they are? But they'll do a deal with Con or Wests Newy and be back up sooner than later. Easts were known as the 'transit lounge' until Gus got there - it wasn't that long ago. It's the cyclical nature of things. If clubs where simply allowed to work it out for themselves without the 'criteria' and other BS we've had to endure over the past decade things would work out just fine.

AFL might suck the big one, but we could learn a few things from them. They don't go looking for excuses to kill off clubs. Even Fitzroy were given plenty of time to finally find a good deal without having some turkey setting deadlines and ruling out options (didn't the NRL kill off Balmain investigating merging with the Gold Coast? - and now we're going back there?). A bit more respect for all clubs and their fans (especially the oldest and most successful club still in the NRL) wouldn't go astray.

The numbers show that Sydney can easily cope with the teams it has now, could probably bring back a lost club, AND get the Teddies back up at Gosford. All of them would survive just fine, whilst the likes of Melbourne will need handouts for a long time, NQ would have died years ago without News Ltd doing the same, and even strong regional areas like Newcastle are no quarantee. Comparing every club to Brisbane is just silly - they are an exception, and eventually a second Brisbane side will come in and they won't look so hot.

The 'there's not enough players' argument is just so much rubbish. For a year or two there would be an imbalance, but it would sort itself out quick enough. So long as the cap is enforced it will happen even faster. Like any profession more opportunities attracts more talent. It doesn't wash. Just like most of the ideas Super League brought to the game (scorer kicks off?) it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. If the NRL really wanted to get the game moving forward they'd give the merged sides the option, and get the Teddies up for 07 along with GC. I'm assuming (only from what I know of Illawarra's finances) That St Gilla wouldn't want to split, but Wests would be gone like a shot, and Balmain would find a way. A fitting way to celebrate the 100th season of the game to have three of the originals back where they belong.

yappy to replace gallop asap

 

[Snappy Tom]

Any talk of the Tigers to sue the NRL, should lead to the immediate return of the 8 million dollars handed to the clubs when the joint venture was formed.

Very typical poor form by the Tigers, with this talk of legal action and dragging the game back to the gutter.

Time to dump the joint venture, with both clubs back in the premier league and bring up the Central Coast.

 

[galahs]

What I find funny is all the talk that Sydney can support more teams. Do we mean the city area of Sydney or the greater Sydney area?

Either way Souths playing out of Homebush is rediculous. Wests playing out of homebush is also stupid. The bulldogs should be the only team based at homebush!

What I'm saying is if Souths are willing to play at homebush, why not at the Central Coast? It would kill two birds with one stone.

 

[yappy]

Obviously the stats I gave as "Sydney" is the greater Sydney region. going by the fact that they didn't give separate figures for them I'd assume that stretches to Macarthur in the South, Blue Mountains in the West and even Central Coast in the North. All three of these areas deserve a local team, but ATM they've only got 1 and 1/3. Wollongong also should have it's own full time team, and I'd say eventually St Gilla will focus more and more there, with just a few derbies at Kogarah (but who knows I could be wrong).

Wests Tigers are playing at Homebush - does that mean they too should be punted to the Central Coast to kill two birds with one stone so to speak? Hell they play home games everywhere else why not? Or the Dogs? Souths going to Homebush is a gamble for them, but one that isn't that bad. Gosford would be just as much of a gamble. Homebush is central to the whole Sydney region and we all know that there are heaps of old time supporters spread all over the place for the traditional teams as people moved away from where they grew up. I'd prefer it if the Bunnies had a new ground built somewhere in or near their traditional home, but it isn't going to happen is it?

All clubs should be allowed to make their own decisions regarding their future. Sure you can offer inducements, but they have to be freely accepted without the arm twisting that usually goes on. That said though, if they go belly up no one should be there to help em either. As a Magpies supporter I wouldn't want us with our hands out if we simply couldn't cut it. The only support of that kind should go to expansion clubs, and then probably only in the first 10-15 years of their existence. If they can't keep up after that long you must start asking if they ever will. The only assistance Sydney teams should get if they are going down the gurgler is BIG assistance to relocate to a non league market. But even that shouldn't be forced, as only decisions taken willingly will work in the end.

 

[Southernsaint]

Good on the Tigers, I say. They're not taking it lying down...

While I don't agree with the decision made by their members & board originally, they made that decision in good faith...