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Tinkler proposal back on (take 3)

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
B-dos - what part of those comments aren't factual?

Also you have no idea what he actually said and what the various media outlets didn't print.

Everything you have quoted him saying is fact. I don't understand the problem.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
B-dos - what part of those comments aren't factual?

Also you have no idea what he actually said and what the various media outlets didn't print.

Everything you have quoted him saying is fact. I don't understand the problem.

im talking about his misleading comments alex.. not unfactual comments

why are you trying to put words into my mouth?

his insistence that we are 'break even' and implication we are on an even keel but for the lack of "profit" completely ignores the fact we do without plenty of resources and facilities that more wealthy clubs have.

and this line is as close to an outright lie as you can get.. and this is from the guy who has apparently been running our club


‘‘But we all operate under a salary cap, so there is only so much you can do with the money anyhow.’’


do you agree that this is highly misleading and could be reasonably considered dishonest?
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,985
you honestly can't see the thin veiled attempt at being neutral while instilling reasons for doubt in members minds? you can use facts in all sorts of ways, depending on how you present them. telling members to seek legal advice on the proposal and other such things serves very little other than to create doubt... especially as members would be unable to seek such advice without the proposal documents themselves, anyway. if you didn't watch and/or listen to Burros interviews before he got silenced then i would understand... but if you heard and saw it and still believe he was impartial i think you're very, very naive. it was quite clear and obvious to me that cracks were showing, and i wasn't surprised at all when he was silenced. his job should have been to tow the boards wagon, not create doubt in voters minds.

i'm with B-dos with this one, it's pretty clear Burro did not want this to happen for whatever reason. his motivation isn't really relevant to me. i wouldn't say Burraston was dishonest, per se, i would say he was very selective in what he chose to tell members in order to create doubt in the proposal. this flew in the face of the boards wishes, and was rightly nipped in the butt.
 
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B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
i'm with B-dos with this one, it's pretty clear Burro did not want this to happen for whatever reason.

go take a shower! surely you feel dirty?

no, its a nice change to our usual clashes pervey. happy to hear it.
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,985
go take a shower! surely you feel dirty?

no, its a nice change to our usual clashes pervey. happy to hear it.
i call a spade a shovel if i see it that way, mate. in this case i do agree with you.

i do feel a bit dirty, though.
 

Big Tim

First Grade
Messages
6,500
im talking about his misleading comments alex.. not unfactual comments

why are you trying to put words into my mouth?

his insistence that we are 'break even' and implication we are on an even keel but for the lack of "profit" completely ignores the fact we do without plenty of resources and facilities that more wealthy clubs have.

and this line is as close to an outright lie as you can get.. and this is from the guy who has apparently been running our club


‘‘But we all operate under a salary cap, so there is only so much you can do with the money anyhow.’’


do you agree that this is highly misleading and could be reasonably considered dishonest?

And what was this quote in context to?

buying back the farm? If so, then he is 100% correct.

I agree he didnt seem to push the TSG deal, but at the same time he had a duty of care to the members to ensure they knew there was an alternative, a far inferior one, but an alternate none the less if the TSG deal didnt go though.

I dont see what debating this has to do with anything anyway. TSG have a CEO, Burraston is in a position that in a matter of weeks wont exist. Whether he backed the deal 100% or not, there is no job for him once the TSG paperwork is sorted.

Sad to see him go, as I think he did a fantastic job considering all the circumstances. He may have rubbed people up the wrong way, but it was all for the Knights, and frankly it lead us to the amazing deal we accepted last night.

Clearly the guy has no idea, and should never have had the job. :roll:
 

cram

Bench
Messages
3,396
i'm with B-dos with this one, it's pretty clear Burro did not want this to happen for whatever reason. his motivation isn't really relevant to me. i wouldn't say Burraston was dishonest, per se, i would say he was very selective in what he chose to tell members in order to create doubt in the proposal. this flew in the face of the boards wishes, and was rightly nipped in the butt.

I tend to agree with this.
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
The language Burraston used when discussing the Tinkler deal definitely had undertones of scaremongering.

The same language was not used when discussing the Patron's Trust deal.

That was what stunk.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
And what was this quote in context to?

the tinkler deal tim. the quote appears in the post above.

Sad to see him go, as I think he did a fantastic job considering all the circumstances. He may have rubbed people up the wrong way, but it was all for the Knights, and frankly it lead us to the amazing deal we accepted last night.

i fail to see how his recent actions are in any way fro the knights. thats what you seem to be ignoring. and thats why im extremely happy to see him go

and really, that was only the tip of the iceburg. in the past 2 or so years he has said ridiculous things and made ridiculous decisions. isolating the club and turning previous allies dead against us.

it amazes me that the die hards here still applaud him, but oh well...

Clearly the guy has no idea, and should never have had the job. :roll:

i dont doubt he has the potential to make a good leader. he had the runs on the board with previous roles. but he has failed miserably this time around.
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
im talking about his misleading comments alex.. not unfactual comments

why are you trying to put words into my mouth?

his insistence that we are 'break even' and implication we are on an even keel but for the lack of "profit" completely ignores the fact we do without plenty of resources and facilities that more wealthy clubs have.

and this line is as close to an outright lie as you can get.. and this is from the guy who has apparently been running our club

‘‘But we all operate under a salary cap, so there is only so much you can do with the money anyhow.’’

do you agree that this is highly misleading and could be reasonably considered dishonest?
How is it misleading? Can we pay players over the salary cap from within the club? No we can't. We can have our players take up third party agreements, but that can't come from our sudden windfall. We can buy all the gym equipment and GPS equipment and supplements that we want, however at the end of the day we can't do anything more than the next club with a salary cap in place.

When he said that TSG hadn't come out and said they were doing the $200 family season tickets. He couldn't have possibly known or commented on what TSG will implement when they were to take over the club. The improvements to the club could have been funded by the Patron's Trust if that is how the club and trust decided that was how the money was to be spent.

So...the club will get $2.6 Million to "repay" accumulated losses which have already been paid for, will get another $1.5 Million in working capital and a further $3 Million in sponsorship - so that is $7.1 Million in cash with maybe $2.5 Million in creditors. Do you not agree that there is only so much we can do with that surplus $4.5 Million?

I believe he was probably mis-quoted a little and was saying that having Tinkler as an owner wasn't going to allow us to buy any player we wanted at any cost (thus the reference to the salary cap).

We were a "break-even" organisation when he said it. We didn't have certain resources because we were underfunded. For 23 years no one has stepped up and said that they would fund us - whether that be in a buyout like Tinkler has achieved, or in a Trust like Burro tried to implement? Should he not get any credit for getting the club in to such a position if the Tinkler deal was to fall over?

All I heard him say was that if the members did not want a buyout, all was not lost and there was an alternative. Lets face it - there were risks in the Tinkler deal (which thanks to pressure from Tew and Burro they got a Bank Guarantee ensuring the money that Tinkler promised will always be there), and (on the assumption that the $6 Million was actually credited to the Trust) not many risks with the Trust. I might add that the Bank Guarantee by Tinkler happened late in the peace as well - possibly after some of the quotes used here.

I agree that the Trust was an inferior offer and ultimately only delayed the inevitable. But Burro at least went out and looked for alternate funding (more than any other CEO has done) and also ensured we got the offer we deserved from Tinkler.
 

to_ddeath

Coach
Messages
11,759
lol

after being dirt poor for so long, I can understand why your collective eyes light up when you see a bit of coin

still sad but, this is just Clive Palmer mkII

Aren't you a clever little serial troll?? FFS.
The best offer the Knights will ever have. Pleased for them, if it was your club you'd accept it you stupid
ignorant fudgepacker.
You reckon they sold their souls to the big bad rich devil then? This from someone who thinks suburban
home grounds should be done with.
Give us a break you farkin hypocritical piece of sh*t.
:lol: @ Gayders


T.
 

Rolla

Juniors
Messages
2,196
Conspiracy theory...

Burro had to, by law, act neutrally. Lets say that he was acting without bias and he/tsg/the board all realised that in acting within the law (as he did and had to) burraston was seemingly giving the patrons trust more credit than it was due. The gagging of steve may well have been his idea or a collective idea that scratched his legal obligation to inform of the alternatives? Therefore being gagged was the best and only way for him to endorse the tsg deal.

PS out of curiosity do those people that think burro was acting in his own interests and pushing patrons trust think that he wouldbe more secure with that option? My personal belief is that if tinks didnt get through heads would certainly roll in a major way. Also if burro simply bent over and took it for tinks as soon as he showed interest i would think tinks would certainly fire him. The best thing tew and burro etc could have done for their own interests is milk as much out of tinks as they can and show their new boss first hand their skills of negotiating deals.
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
How is it misleading? Can we pay players over the salary cap from within the club? No we can't. We can have our players take up third party agreements, but that can't come from our sudden windfall. We can buy all the gym equipment and GPS equipment and supplements that we want, however at the end of the day we can't do anything more than the next club with a salary cap in place

you pretty much just explained why it is misleading alex

you are so hell bent on defending burraston you are ignoring you very own thoughts.


So...the club will get $2.6 Million to "repay" accumulated losses which have already been paid for, will get another $1.5 Million in working capital and a further $3 Million in sponsorship - so that is $7.1 Million in cash with maybe $2.5 Million in creditors. Do you not agree that there is only so much we can do with that surplus $4.5 Million?

lol. i cant actually believe youre serious

the fact is burraston implied that the sale to tinkler would make little difference to us because we all operate under the cap and because we are 'break even' at the moemnt is the issue

if you cannot see how this is entirely misleading to the average punter (and boarder line dishonest) then theres nothing more we need to talk about.

We were a "break-even" organisation when he said it. We didn't have certain resources because we were underfunded
.

yeah. exactly

For 23 years no one has stepped up and said that they would fund us - whether that be in a buyout like Tinkler has achieved, or in a Trust like Burro tried to implement? Should he not get any credit for getting the club in to such a position if the Tinkler deal was to fall over?

yes he should and im happy to pay him his dues for getting that in place. however his performance in the years before and the last few months have completely eliminated any goodwill he may have deserved.

All I heard him say was that if the members did not want a buyout, all was not lost and there was an alternative. Lets face it - there were risks in the Tinkler deal (which thanks to pressure from Tew and Burro they got a Bank Guarantee ensuring the money that Tinkler promised will always be there), and (on the assumption that the $6 Million was actually credited to the Trust) not many risks with the Trust. I might add that the Bank Guarantee by Tinkler happened late in the peace as well - possibly after some of the quotes used here.

dear oh dear.. not many risks with the trust compared to tinkler? that'll do me
 

Johns Magic

Referee
Messages
21,654
PS out of curiosity do those people that think burro was acting in his own interests and pushing patrons trust think that he wouldbe more secure with that option? My personal belief is that if tinks didnt get through heads would certainly roll in a major way. Also if burro simply bent over and took it for tinks as soon as he showed interest i would think tinks would certainly fire him. The best thing tew and burro etc could have done for their own interests is milk as much out of tinks as they can and show their new boss first hand their skills of negotiating deals.

I think Burro should have acted exactly as Tew did.

Tew never rolled over, in fact he was the one who shut down the original Tinkler proposal.

But when the right deal was struck, Tew endorsed it as he should and pushed it as the right option for the future of the club.

I think Tew will keep a role at the club, and acted responsibly with no hidden agendas.
 

cram

Bench
Messages
3,396
I think it should be agreed that there are differing opinions on Burro and nothing is going to change someone elses opinion of him.

It's fair to say that there were mistakes made by many along the way during all of this but at the end of the day the Yes vote prevailed.

Tew made the point that we remain a united club so lets rejoice in the change we now have and move on what ever will happen to Burro will happen and he will adapt.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
For those of us who didn't get to go to the meeting (and noted that the nbnnews.com.au website had no coverage of last night) on Knights TV there is a link to the final 7 minutes of the night:

http://www.nrl.com/video/clubvideok...71/defaulttab/147/videotabid/146/default.aspx

Tew never rolled over, in fact he was the one who shut down the original Tinkler proposal.

But when the right deal was struck, Tew endorsed it as he should and pushed it as the right option for the future of the club.

I too was expecting both of them to be singing from the same hymn sheet once the Tinkler deal was back on the table. Now I don't know too much about these sorts of things, but once the board had given the deal its endorsement, was it Tew's job to represent the board's view, and as CEO, was it Burro's job to not tell people to vote one way or another, but to present the facts as best as possible?

PS: Good post Rolla...I'm not sure if you're right or wrong, but certainly some good thoughts!
 

Alex28

Coach
Messages
11,781
not many risks with the trust compared to tinkler? that'll do me
What risk is there (in the absence of Tinkler's offer) in being given $6 Million over 4 years with no requirement to pay it back? It funds any losses the club would make. It improves what the club would already have. An independent board oversees the cash. What risk was there?

With Tinkler, prior to him stumping up a Bank Guarantee, if Tinky decided he didn't want to pay the cash, then we were screwed. We were just like the Jets were under Consadine. The Bank Guarantee is really the one thing that makes the whole thing viable. Cash in the Bank payable to the club on demand. Without it I don't know whether he would have got his 75%.

Cash in the Bank versus a promise. You tell me what is more risky?
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
i fail to see how his recent actions are in any way fro the knights. thats what you seem to be ignoring. and thats why im extremely happy to see him go

and really, that was only the tip of the iceburg. in the past 2 or so years he has said ridiculous things and made ridiculous decisions. isolating the club and turning previous allies dead against us.

I give everyone one guess as to who thinks we should've copped it sweet from Hunter Venues, and fallen over ourselves to take the poor 1st offer from TSG, not to mention the dodgy 2nd offer!
 

B-dos

Referee
Messages
28,165
you can speak to me serc. dont be scared mate

oh and i gather youve completely changed direction on whart ive been saying here because it pains you to agree?

or you cant spin a new conspiracy theory?

I give everyone one guess as to who thinks we should've copped it sweet from Hunter Venues,

to be honest i can barely even remeber the details of that mega issue

and fallen over ourselves to take the poor 1st offer from TSG, not to mention the dodgy 2nd offer!

im pretty sure im on record saying i was happy with all three deals serc. or should that be sherlock?

how long did it take you to find out what everyone else here thought before finally hopping off the fence?
 

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