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TPA's & Sponsorship = Success

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,925
Much has been written re the Roosters, Bronco's, Storm and their obvious ability in these areas and that advantages they have.
Much has also been said that the geographical area of St George presents difficulties in respect of attracting such things.
If were are one of the best know RL brands, if we have the most recognisable jersey in the NRL, if we have a large supporter base spread out all over Australia then the argument re locality IMO is severely flawed.
There is no reason why we can't have TPA's that are from intra or interstate and surely there are large international / national organisations based in other cities, towns or states that have the ability to be St GI supporters.
Obviously our marketing department are as useless as the rest of the joint.
We spend far too much time whinging and whining and offering up poor excuses and far too little time achieving professional outcomes.
Time to stop bagging out the successful clubs, Politis etc etc and come to the understanding that we are shit at these thing simply because we choose to be.
The Taj falls into the same category, it is a run down dump because we openly choose it to be so not because of anything else. It just demonstrates that we have no confidence in being able to get a return on investment after a refurbishment despite that fact that other clubs big and small do so all the time.
Far too many excuses in all departments and even amongst ourselves in this place.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,481
Is there a part two of this rant coming which contains a solution, or is that it?
 

possm

Coach
Messages
14,040
Much has been written re the Roosters, Bronco's, Storm and their obvious ability in these areas and that advantages they have.
Much has also been said that the geographical area of St George presents difficulties in respect of attracting such things.
If were are one of the best know RL brands, if we have the most recognisable jersey in the NRL, if we have a large supporter base spread out all over Australia then the argument re locality IMO is severely flawed.
There is no reason why we can't have TPA's that are from intra or interstate and surely there are large international / national organisations based in other cities, towns or states that have the ability to be St GI supporters.
Obviously our marketing department are as useless as the rest of the joint.
We spend far too much time whinging and whining and offering up poor excuses and far too little time achieving professional outcomes.
Time to stop bagging out the successful clubs, Politis etc etc and come to the understanding that we are shit at these thing simply because we choose to be.
The Taj falls into the same category, it is a run down dump because we openly choose it to be so not because of anything else. It just demonstrates that we have no confidence in being able to get a return on investment after a refurbishment despite that fact that other clubs big and small do so all the time.
Far too many excuses in all departments and even amongst ourselves in this place.
I am convinced St George needs to go it alone. WIN and Illawarra can get together and form a well financed feeder Club for the St George Dragons. With WIN Corp and the Gordon's running the show, surely the Steelers would be well run and provide great and much better value to St George than what they do now. The WIN Corp deal is doing nothing for the the Dragons.

If this could be arranged, St George could return to their rightful place atop of the NRL ladder.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,183
If I'm not mistaken TPA's are the responsibility of the player/player manager, however there is a definite correlation between success and the ease of obtaining them.
Unfortunately, sponsorships etc are pretty well restricted to the "local" area of the club. Outside of the local, and although a business may be a SGI supporter, it would make more sense economically to sponsor a local player. For example:
A business in QLD, maybe a mad SGI supporter, but to roll out Blake Lawrie as its sponsored player, the prople of that area would say who the f^*& is this guy. Roll out say Payne Haas, a local player, and people would take interest.
It's just about goid business and ROI (return on investment).

I wrote on another thread about the salary cap and the many "exclusions" under it. Somethings a very savvy business minded person could utilise. Unfortunately, savvy and business minded are 2 words that escape any of our current Board. You just have to look at our game player sponsors to see they are not million dollar companies.

Its a vicious circle really, TPA's and spinsorships may = success, however, you need success to attract TPA's and sponsorships. SGI fall into the latter at present.
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
6,667
If I'm not mistaken TPA's are the responsibility of the player/player manager, however there is a definite correlation between success and the ease of obtaining them.
Unfortunately, sponsorships etc are pretty well restricted to the "local" area of the club. Outside of the local, and although a business may be a SGI supporter, it would make more sense economically to sponsor a local player. For example:
A business in QLD, maybe a mad SGI supporter, but to roll out Blake Lawrie as its sponsored player, the prople of that area would say who the f^*& is this guy. Roll out say Payne Haas, a local player, and people would take interest.
It's just about goid business and ROI (return on investment).

I wrote on another thread about the salary cap and the many "exclusions" under it. Somethings a very savvy business minded person could utilise. Unfortunately, savvy and business minded are 2 words that escape any of our current Board. You just have to look at our game player sponsors to see they are not million dollar companies.

Its a vicious circle really, TPA's and spinsorships may = success, however, you need success to attract TPA's and sponsorships. SGI fall into the latter at present.
You are correct those little sponsorships have nothing to do with 3rd party's as club sponsors are not 3rd party arrangements. It is part of the cap and 3rd parties are supposedly have nothing to do with the club.
You are also correct 3rd parties are not the responsibility of the club. Player managers play a role in obtaining third party's like Tedesco and the betting agencies etc
3rd party's are to have no relationship with the club...however who finds the 3rd party..well....that can be anyone including the club directors or owners but has to be approved or sanctioned by the manager and NRL
Nick Politis has friends in high places who have nothing to do with the Roosters but who are happy to pay one of his players to market their companies or business.
The solution is rich owners have friends in high places. Who does Bruce Gordon have access to or whose arm can he twist.
Dont forget the player themselves has to be a marketable product for a non football organisation too.
Who in our club outside of Widdop was marketable for advertising who looks Ok and can talk.
Frizz soft talker, Ben Hunt not marquee enough, James Graham maybe, so called boof head forwards are not an attraction either.
Theres your likely answer Dragons.
 

Dragon David

Bench
Messages
2,761
You are correct those little sponsorships have nothing to do with 3rd party's as club sponsors are not 3rd party arrangements. It is part of the cap and 3rd parties are supposedly have nothing to do with the club.
You are also correct 3rd parties are not the responsibility of the club. Player managers play a role in obtaining third party's like Tedesco and the betting agencies etc
3rd party's are to have no relationship with the club...however who finds the 3rd party..well....that can be anyone including the club directors or owners but has to be approved or sanctioned by the manager and NRL
Nick Politis has friends in high places who have nothing to do with the Roosters but who are happy to pay one of his players to market their companies or business.
The solution is rich owners have friends in high places. Who does Bruce Gordon have access to or whose arm can he twist.
Dont forget the player themselves has to be a marketable product for a non football organisation too.
Who in our club outside of Widdop was marketable for advertising who looks Ok and can talk.
Frizz soft talker, Ben Hunt not marquee enough, James Graham maybe, so called boof head forwards are not an attraction either.
Theres your likely answer Dragons.
You are right BLM01 and Dragonslayer. I'm guessing that the management of the club as well as players and their managers are well versed in all aspects of TPA's. It is just that we do not have sufficient numbers of high profile players who are marketable in promoting companies who are able to pay good money for advertising services in my opinion as BLM01 has expressed and it is very highly unlikely that we will have much in the way of TPA's in the medium to long term the way the club is being run and more to the point in not able to secure the top notch players.

In saying this though, if our juniors can become stars, then hopefully they could attract the companies in the area to sponsor them which could build on others.

For the time being, we as the Dragons do not appear to be a good commodity for business outlay in my opinion.
 

merahputih

Juniors
Messages
842
I am convinced St George needs to go it alone. WIN and Illawarra can get together and form a well financed feeder Club for the St George Dragons. With WIN Corp and the Gordon's running the show, surely the Steelers would be well run and provide great and much better value to St George than what they do now. The WIN Corp deal is doing nothing for the the Dragons.

If this could be arranged, St George could return to their rightful place atop of the NRL ladder.
The Win deal came with a lot of expectation that somehow Bruce Gordon's wealth would trickle down to the football club and allow us to compete with the big boys- Roosters, Storm etc. Unfortunately this has turned out to be a major anticlimax. Gordon Snr is now aged 90 and as far as I know spends most of his time in his residences in Bermuda and Monaco, leaving the day to day running of the business to his son Andrew who is on the Illawarra board. Andrew was recently reported to have been involved with a loss of $10M of the companies' funds to a fraudster, allegedly because he didn't read a financial document before signing it. In any case the issue of TPA's has no direct relation to a club board member's personal wealth.
As you know TPA's have to be done at arms length from the club organisation, with no direct contribution from anybody connected to the club management. As we seem to be one of the smallest players in this field it seems as if the joint venture's profile and influence in the business world is as low as our position on the table this year, despite WIN Corporation's involvement.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
14,040
If I'm not mistaken TPA's are the responsibility of the player/player manager, however there is a definite correlation between success and the ease of obtaining them.
Unfortunately, sponsorships etc are pretty well restricted to the "local" area of the club. Outside of the local, and although a business may be a SGI supporter, it would make more sense economically to sponsor a local player. For example:
A business in QLD, maybe a mad SGI supporter, but to roll out Blake Lawrie as its sponsored player, the prople of that area would say who the f^*& is this guy. Roll out say Payne Haas, a local player, and people would take interest.
It's just about goid business and ROI (return on investment).

I wrote on another thread about the salary cap and the many "exclusions" under it. Somethings a very savvy business minded person could utilise. Unfortunately, savvy and business minded are 2 words that escape any of our current Board. You just have to look at our game player sponsors to see they are not million dollar companies.

Its a vicious circle really, TPA's and spinsorships may = success, however, you need success to attract TPA's and sponsorships. SGI fall into the latter at present.
TPA's are only 'local' arrangements because they are indeed tied/arranged by Clubs or their proxies. The way forward would be to restrict arrangements to the player managers and the NRL and by making TPA's a fixed term that follows the players as they move from club to club.

The NRL can control the 'national' aspect of TPA's by inviting national entities to participate in it's NRL TPA scheme by:
Identifying 32 NRL marquee players.
Identifying national brands that the NRL wants to be associated with.
Ruling that sleeve advertising is to be reserved for TPA advertising.
Developing NRL promotional activities for the game of Rugby League.
Providing marquee players for Sponsor's promotional activities sponsors.


Marquee Players - $300k per season
Product/Services Media Promotions
Player appearances at Sponsors Activities
Player endorsements (signatures) on Sponsors merchandise
Sponsor's Logo on player's sleeve


Selective NRL non-marque players - 100K per season
Player appearances at Sponsors Activities
Player endorsements (signatures) on Sponsors merchandise
Sponsor's Logo on player's sleeve

National Sponsors
Drinks such as Red Bull, Coke, etc
Toothpastes and soap
Food Companies such as Macdonalds, Pizza Hut, etc.
Chain Stores such as Woolworths, Coles, David Jones etc.
Food brands
Car Makes such as Audi, BMW, Mercedes Benz etc.


And the list goes on. It will be up to the NRL and player managers to put together a list of suitable national sponsors and then up to the sponsors to select players who they want to be associated with on a 3 year contract. All players TPA payments is to be paid direct to the players by the NRL.
 
Last edited:

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,925
As I suspected lots of reasons why not.
So ask yourself are the TPA’s obtained by the players manager solely because of the player or does the club he plays for have some bearing on the matter?
I suspect the club has some influence in that decision making process by any potential sponsor.
Everyone bleating on about the arm length process from the club itself do we really believe that Politis and the Roosters for example are at arms length in all relationships?
Are we now so lacklustre as a club that our brand can’t attract people who want to be associated with us or it’s players?
Last but not least if player managers are the sole area of responsibility re gaining TPA’s best we only look at players who are represented by managers with a proven track record of doing that?
Obviously we probably have players represented by managers that do have a track record of doing that but the cattle we buy from those managers isn’t good enough to attract it for itself.
A complete rethink is required and no rocks should be left unturned in doing so.
 

Warabrook saint

Juniors
Messages
1,799
Much has been written re the Roosters, Bronco's, Storm and their obvious ability in these areas and that advantages they have.
Much has also been said that the geographical area of St George presents difficulties in respect of attracting such things.
If were are one of the best know RL brands, if we have the most recognisable jersey in the NRL, if we have a large supporter base spread out all over Australia then the argument re locality IMO is severely flawed.
There is no reason why we can't have TPA's that are from intra or interstate and surely there are large international / national organisations based in other cities, towns or states that have the ability to be St GI supporters.
Obviously our marketing department are as useless as the rest of the joint.
We spend far too much time whinging and whining and offering up poor excuses and far too little time achieving professional outcomes.
Time to stop bagging out the successful clubs, Politis etc etc and come to the understanding that we are shit at these thing simply because we choose to be.
The Taj falls into the same category, it is a run down dump because we openly choose it to be so not because of anything else. It just demonstrates that we have no confidence in being able to get a return on investment after a refurbishment despite that fact that other clubs big and small do so all the time.
Far too many excuses in all departments and even amongst ourselves in this place.
Decent people wouldn't let their house run down let alone a club of the greatest rugby league team in history. Unbelievable
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,318
Plenty of our players have TPAs. You just have to follow them on Instagram to see them advertising products on a regular basis - Widdop and Puma, Tariq and Budgie Smugglers, even our good friend Aitken occasionally advertises products.

I don't think it's the actual recorded TPAs that are the problem. As mentioned, these are at arms length and I doubt very much that the club has much to do with these. I daresay it's the "creative accounting" by the rich clubs that makes the difference. As I've pointed out before, is it just coincidence that Tara Rushton is an ambassador for Jaguar - which just happens to be one of the franchises that Politis owns? It seems convenient that she because an ambassador in 2018 - the same year Cooper joined the Roosters. Do we believe this is recorded as a TPA? Do we believe that there's not something for either Cooper or Tara to gain from this?

TPAs are possibly unfair, however there are other ways these bigger clubs are securing these players.
 

FlameThrower

Bench
Messages
3,376
Our Club has no clout on and off the field. The game and ruthless professional has passed us by. We are stuck on the glory days of 11 in a row and our conservative old boys network has no forward vision. Yet apparently we have no Culture or DNA?
We jagged 2 and half good seasons by Bennett falling into our laps.
Right now we are treading water...
 

2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
Our Club has no clout on and off the field. The game and ruthless professional has passed us by. We are stuck on the glory days of 11 in a row and our conservative old boys network has no forward vision. Yet apparently we have no Culture or DNA?
We jagged 2 and half good seasons by Bennett falling into our laps.
Right now we are treading water...
I think we are not treading water, we are slowly sinking
 

Crush

First Grade
Messages
7,698
Possm loves the TPA debate!
A couple of years ago we spent a whole off-season talking about TPAs

I reckon TPAs give the better managed teams an advantage but not a huge advantage. Only really the Roosters have taken advantage of this and turned it into success.
Look at the Broncos, they would have massive TPA advantage yet still haven't won a comp in ages. The NRL is still a relatively close competition where any team can beat any other team on their day.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,925
Possm loves the TPA debate!
A couple of years ago we spent a whole off-season talking about TPAs

I reckon TPAs give the better managed teams an advantage but not a huge advantage. Only really the Roosters have taken advantage of this and turned it into success.
Look at the Broncos, they would have massive TPA advantage yet still haven't won a comp in ages. The NRL is still a relatively close competition where any team can beat any other team on their day.
I like your post but don’t agree 100%
The teams with good tpa’s IMO have far better depth in their squads and weather the rep period much better.
The teams with poor rosters and shitty little tpa’s end up busted by the time the finals came round.
 

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