tua v rahman

ozbash · Mar 17, 2003

Ten weeks of tough sparring sessions are about to end for David Tua.
Tua and his team are pulling back on physical training this week as they enter the countdown to the March 30 heavyweight re-match against Hasim Rahman.
Trainer-manager Kevin Barry says Tua will spar two four round sessions in the next 48 hours and while sparring will then end, Tua will still be kept busy.
Barry says it is a matter of keeping Tua sharp so they will be doing plenty of speed work as well as flexibility and mobility.
He says they are also focussing on their fight plan, breaking it down and going over it again and again.
Meanwhile, Rahman is still having problems finding a boxing trainer ahead of the heavyweight re-match.
A replacement trainer was found for Rahman last week, but his employers withdrew his services.
Now it looks as though the man in question, Buddy McGirt, will be allowed to train Rahman, but in bizarre circumstances.
Tua's manager Kevin Barry says it sounds Mickey Mouse.
Barry says he understands McGirt will tape Rahman's hands in the dressing room but will not be allowed ringside for the fight.
However he says it doesn't matter if Rahman has Merlin the Magician in his corner, he still has to come out and face a fired-up David Tua.

Vertigo · Mar 17, 2003

David Tua: Born With What CanÂ´t Be Taught, Unable To Learn What Can

By Frank J. Lotierzo
GlovedFist@Juno.com If I said to you, what are three of the most important physical traits needed in a heavyweight prospect? They'd have to be in no particular order, Punch, Chin, and Speed ! These are three things you can't teach, you're either born with it or your not. You can learn to improve your punching technique but, you can't become a puncher. Forget about improving speed and the ability to take a big shot, if it's not their at birth, you can't acquire it. However important speed may be, it's not quite as big a factor in the heavyweight division as it is in the lighter weight divisions. However history has not yet delivered the natural heavyweight who escaped getting caught with some devastatingly hard punches, so having a chin is paramount for a heavyweight.
Looking back over history, all of the top tier heavyweight champions possessed two of the three, and some of the all-time greats had all three. Going back no further then Joe Louis you can't help but notice other then Muhammad Ali, most of the respected and feared heavyweight champs carried the Big-Punch! Such as Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Tyson and Lennox Lewis. Why do I bring this up ? Because currently their is an active heavyweight who possesses two of the three physical traits mentioned earlier. He has one-punch KO power in both hands, and he has a cast iron chin. I have yet to see him bothered by a single punch let alone hurt by one. His name is David Tua, and he's fighting Hasim Rahman on March 29th in what amounts to a title elimination bout. This is a rematch of their previous fight on 12/19/98 won by Tua via 10th round TKO.
When thinking of Tua, it's impossible not to think of the natural gifts he was born with. One punch power, and a great chin. These are things that heavyweights would give up ten years of their life to be blessed with. What a head start over most. Then why has the heavyweight with the biggest punch and best chin yet to capture a piece of one of the four heavyweight titles ?
A closer look at the Tua-man reveals possibly why he hasn't yet lived up to the potential and promise he showed coming off his 19 second knockout of former champ John Ruiz on 3/15/96. It's impossible not to notice that Tua has packed on 20 to 30 pounds since Ruiz. Apparently Tua bought in to the myth that added weight meant added power when in fact the opposite is true. The added weight Tua has gained has slowed him. The Tua who KO'd Ruiz had a pretty quick pair of hands which is not the case today. The added weight if it's done anything it's hindered him getting his punches off and maybe even some of the impact. Another factor keeping Tua from realizing his full potential is the fact that he's never learned how to use his short height and reach to his advantage like Joe Frazier did. In four of the more important fights in his career this has been painfully obvious. In his fights with Hasim Rahman and Fres Oquendo he was unable to get inside or cut off the ring . He moved forward following them around the ring with no head or upper body movement being a sitting duck for their jab but, he managed to land the big punch late in the fight to pull it out. His title fight with Lennox Lewis and title elimination bout with Chris Byrd also showed that he does not work the body in order to slow his opponents or corner them to set up his big shots to the head. Tua not being able to land the knockout punch in these fights led to him losing one sided decisions.
David Tua is blessed to have one punch KO power and a concrete chin. These are huge for a heavyweight to possess especially in what would be considered a pedestrian heavyweight division at best. However, he cannot continue to keep looking for the one punch knockouts. He has to learn how to use his power to slow and trap the movers and boxers that he has shown to be vulnerable against. Once again I'll refer to Frazier, he was the ultimate catch and kill fighter. In all three historic fights with Muhammad Ali, Frazier had success cutting the ring in half and bobbing and weaving underneath and inside of Ali's jab. This enabled Frazier to work Ali's body which took his legs and slowed him down to where Ali was forced to fight flat-footed at times which was to Frazier's advantage. I don't believe Tua is as good an athlete, and doesn't have the inside hand speed as Frazier but, I don't see any Muhammad Ali in todays heavyweight ranks where he needs to be as good as Frazier.
Two fighters who Tua knocked out, John Ruiz and Hasim Rahman went on to win a piece of the heavyweight title after being defeated by Tua. For Tua to have any chance to win a piece of the title he must raise his game. He must stop following his opponents around the ring looking for one punch. He must start cutting off the ring taking away the escape routes of the boxers and movers. Tua must learn to bob and weave underneath and inside of the heavyweights who have been able to keep him outside with their long jab. Another thing Tua has to concentrate on is working the body, a lost art today. By working the body he'll accomplish two things, he'll be more in range to take advantage of his short reach, and the body punching will take away the legs and stamina from the fighters who have been able to out speed and maneuver him. Just as important as the before mentioned the Tua-man must get his weight down, at 5' 10" he has no business coming into the ring carrying 245-253 pounds. This adds nothing to his game, it only takes away from it.
In two weeks Tua fights a rematch with former champ Hasim Rahman. Rahman has been screaming for a rematch since their first fight. In that fight Rahman was caught with one of Tua's signature left hooks right after the bell ending round nine and was hurt badly. He didn't recover before the start of round ten and Tua knocked him out early in the tenth round. Up until that sweeping left hook, Tua hadn't won a round. He followed Rahman all over the ring looking for one big punch to end it, while Rahman was landing his left jab at will. All Rahman has to do in the rematch is fight the exact same fight he did last time, using his jab repeatedly while moving to his left away from Tua's hook. (Oh, and keep his hands up after the bell) For Tua to win this fight he has to change his attack plan as stated earlier. Maybe tying the Tua-man to a chair for about three or four hours a day making him watch Joe Frazier in all three of his fights with Ali for a start !
It's been seven years since Tua's destructive KO of Ruiz. Sitting ringside that night I felt certain that he would've won the title or at least a piece of it by now. Tua will be 30 very soon and short, swarming, pressure type heavyweights don't last as long as their bigger counterparts. They pay a price getting inside and by 32, their best days are behind them. Tua needs only to look back to Joe Frazier and Mike Tyson to see how they lost their effectiveness as they aged, time is running ...
Thanks: EastSideBoxing

Javaman · Mar 18, 2003

I've yet to see a more precise paragraph written on David Tua than the section below. The part highlighted in bold is particularly accurate:
For Tua to have any chance to win a piece of the title he must raise his game. He must stop following his opponents around the ring looking for one punch. He must start cutting off the ring taking away the escape routes of the boxers and movers. Tua must learn to bob and weave underneath and inside of the heavyweights who have been able to keep him outside with their long jab. Another thing Tua has to concentrate on is working the body, a lost art today. By working the body he'll accomplish two things, he'll be more in range to take advantage of his short reach, and the body punching will take away the legs and stamina from the fighters who have been able to out speed and maneuver him. Just as important as the before mentioned the Tua-man must get his weight down, at 5' 10" he has no business coming into the ring carrying 245-253 pounds. This adds nothing to his game, it only takes away from it.

Thanks for the article poster Vertigo. It was a well written piece.
Javaman grateful.

bender · Mar 18, 2003

HASIM RAHMAN NOTES<o

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> <ul type=disc> [*]FORMER HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION (shortest reign as heavyweight champ) <o

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> [*]KO'D IN ALL 3 LOSSES (Lewis II, Maskaev & Tua) <o

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> [*]38 FIGHTS HAVE LASTED 152 ROUNDS AND AVERAGED 4.0 ROUNDS <o

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> [*]HAS 29 KO'S 38 FIGHTS (76%) <o

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> [*]HAS 13 FIRST ROUND KO'S (12 in first 25 fights) <o

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> [*]KO'S BY ROUND- 1st-13; 2nd-8; 3rd-2; 4th-1; 5th-2; 7th-2; 9th-1 <o

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> [*]HAS 1 KO PAST THE SEVENTH ROUND <o

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> [*]HAS FOUGHT 10 OR MORE ROUNDS 6 TIMES TO HOLYFIELD'S 17 TIMES <o

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> [*]11/17/01 KO by 4 LENNOX LEWIS (lost heavy. champ. in first defense, ending shortest reign by a heavyweight champ. Talked talk, didn't walk the walk. Tried to intimidate Lennox. Didn't work. Made questionable business decision before fight, then looked tight in ring, as Lennox set him up with left hook then iced him with patented right hand. Lennox also averaged 30-plus jabs per round.) <o

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> [*]4/22/01 KO 5 LENNOX LEWIS (20-1 dog in South Africa vs. disinterested, movie-making Lewis, who arrived late in So. Africa, while Rahman took nothing to lose attitude and went home to Baltimore the heavyweight champion. Rahman won battle of jabs, throwing 30 per round to Lewis's 19 per.) <o

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> [*]5/20/00 KO 7 CORRIE SANDERS (wobbled by brawler Sanders after losing first 2 rounds. Caught on ropes as he was vs. Tua and Maskaev. Finished off Sanders but thought to be damaged goods, leading to overconfidence by Lewis.) <o

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> [*]11/6/99 KO by 8 OLEG MASKAEV (ahead on cards as he was vs. Tua, when he fatigued some, and got caught on ropes. Landed headfirst, out of ring at feet of Jim Lampley, who calmly finished call of fight as RahmanÂ¹s peeps freaked at ringside.) <o

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> [*]12/19/98 KO by 10 DAVID TUA (ahead on all cards, controlling fight with jab, when he got caught on ropes, hit AT THE BELL ending 9th round. Never recovered and was iced in 10th.) <o

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> [*]Other notable victories include Trevor Berbick (ex-world champ who defeated Ali in his last fight but was Kod in 1 by Tyson) and Ross Purity who Kod Vladimir Klitchsko. Both wins were by decision.<o

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>[/list] <o

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> DAVID TUA NOTES<o

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> <ul type=disc> [*]43 FIGHTS HAVE LASTED 194 ROUNDS AND AVERAGED 4.5 ROUNDS <o

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> [*]HAS 35 KO'S IN 43 FIGHTS (81%) <o

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> [*]HAS 14 FIRST ROUND KO'S <o

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> [*]KO'S BY ROUND- 1st-14; 2nd-7; 3rd-4; 4th-2; 5th-1; 6th-2; 9th-2; 10th-1; 11th-1; 12th-1 <o

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> [*]HAS 4 KO'S IN ROUNDS 9-12 IN FIGHTS THAT WERE EVEN OR HE WAS BEHIND IN- OQUENDO, KO 9 (behind thru 8); RAHMAN, KO 10 (behind thru 10); MASKAEV KO 11 (even thru 10); IZON, KO 12 (even thru 11) <o

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> [*]4/13/02 KO 9 FRES OQUENDO (worked magic again- behind on all cards thru 8 rounds. Oquendo tired in 8th and Tua finished him in 9th with right hand, then series of left hooks as Oquendo got caught on ropes. Tua threw just 29 punches per round.) <o

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> [*]8/18/01 L 12 CHRIS BYRD (no magic this time, as Byrd , 4-1 underdog, cleverly outboxed Tua, who won the last 2 rounds to make scoring respectable. (116-112; 116-112; 115-113). Win earned Byrd mandatory status with IBF.) <o

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> [*]11/11/00 L 12 LENNOX LEWIS (for Lewis's wbc & ibf heavyweight titles. Won a few early rounds, then stopped fighting, as Lewis won rounds 5-12 on all 3 judges cards. Threw just 34 punches per round, as Lewis played it safe, of his 674 total punches, 527 were jabs. (78% of Lewis's punches were jabs). Lewis landed a heavyweight record 213 jabs.) Tua landed 110 total punches (9 per round). <o

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> [*]12/19/98 KO 10 HASIM RAHMAN (behind on all cards thru 9. Ate Rahman jab all night. As Rahman tired and layed on ropes, Tua caught him at/after bell ending 9th round. Rahman never recovered and was iced in 10th.) <o

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> [*]6/7/97 L 12 IKE IBEABUCHI (outworked now imprisioned Ike, who threw 975 punches over 12 rounds (2nd most by a heavyweight-David Bostice, 1044). Tua threw as well, getting off 755 total punches, as they combined to throw a heavyweight record 1730 punches. <o

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> [*]4/6/97 KO 11 OLEG MASKAEV (even thru 10 until Tua caught up with Oleg.)
3/15/96 KO 1 JOHN RUIZ (iced current wba heavy champ with single left hook in :19) <o

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>[/list] <o

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> I found it quite interesting that Hasim Knocks them out a bit earlier, on average. Also, with the exception of the 2nd Lewis fight, Rahman has always been winning his fights, but has lost his endurance. I think this will be a very good fight if both guys are in peak condition.

El Duque · Mar 18, 2003

[*]KO'D IN ALL 3 LOSSES (Lewis II, Maskaev & Tua)
Wasn't KO'd in his loss to Holyfield and his loss to Tua was hardly a KO as he was on his feet. Also only fought Lewiss once. [*]5/20/00 KO 7 CORRIE SANDERS (wobbled by brawler Sanders after losing first 2 rounds. Caught on ropes as he was vs. Tua and Maskaev. Finished off Sanders but thought to be damaged goods, leading to overconfidence by Lewis.) He was more than wobbled, he was dropped. [*]12/19/98 KO by 10 DAVID TUA (ahead on all cards, controlling fight with jab, when he got caught on ropes, hit AT THE BELL ending 9th round. Never recovered and was iced in 10th.) Was hit AFTER the bell and was not Iced. He was on his feet in the tenth AVOIDING Tua's punches when the referee jumped in and prematurely stopped the fight. [*]Other notable victories include Trevor Berbick (ex-world champ who defeated Ali in his last fight but was Kod in 1 by Tyson) and Ross Purity who Kod Vladimir Klitchsko. Both wins were by decision. Berbick was KO'd in the 2nd round.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 18, 2003

Wasn't KO'd in his loss to Holyfield and his loss to Tua was hardly a KO as he was on his feet. Also only fought Lewis once. Rahman fought Lewis twice, once when he won the belt from Lewis in South Africa and again when Lewis won it back. Its also worth noting that Rahmans 1st round KOs almost all came in the early partof his career against presumably easier opponents whereas Tua has them right through. All of these stats really just re-enforce what we already know, that Tua is a big puncher with an iron chin but questionable boxing skills and workrate, and that Rahman is a decent boxer with big early-round power but a questionable chin. Any result other than a Tua KO or Rahman decision is extremely unlikely.

bender · Mar 18, 2003

Sorry about the errors, it was a cut and paste from an obviously unreliable source.

Spacemonkey, I think the question is whether to play it safe behind a good jab, by picking Tua whose rock solid chin means it is unlikely that he will get stopped or do I go for the big right cross with Hasim Rahman which might get the points and even the title but in the process would require a dropping of the guard, since Tua does have the ability to knock him out and is likely to do so if he wins.

Gav-bt · Mar 19, 2003

Kiwis and boxing? Nah, surely not.

Tua is an average fighter in an averageera and he still can't get anywhere.

What next?

Stick to sailing and ruggery buggery!

SpaceMonkey · Mar 19, 2003

Show me an Australian who'd last a round with Tua then.....
...thought not.

El Duque · Mar 19, 2003

Spacey, I was thinking it meant he'd been KO'd twice by Lewis.

Nfi, why I wrote he fought him once seeing I have both fights on tape, lol

bender · Mar 19, 2003

Spacemonkey,

What about Anthony the Man Mundine? The supreme athlete wouldnt be phased by the Weight difference

Also, be careful, isnt bull tige an Englishman, fellow brit Lennox Lewis might last a round or so with Tua.

El Duque · Mar 19, 2003

And whick Kiwi would last a round with the Samoan?

SpaceMonkey · Mar 19, 2003

Mundine? LOL! I reckon every single NZer (and a fair few aussies) would love the opportunity to see Mundane get brained by Tua!!! Mundine's pretty decent, but he's no Roy Jones Jr.
Point taken about Bulltige being English, but if so those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, which is what any pom mocking another country's sporting prowess is surely doing....

El Duque · Mar 19, 2003

Lewis is a Canuck in boxing really.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 19, 2003

I thought I'd better not mention the Lewis being Canadian bit with Tua being born in Samoa!! However if we want to use that line of thinking Kostya Tsyu is Russian.

Mar 19, 2003

This message has been deleted by the author.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 19, 2003

Bronco, not quite... those black Americans were born in the US, as were many generations of their ancestors. The reason that many people cite Lewis as Canadian is that he spent his adolescence in Canada and represented Canada at the Olympics, therefore Lewis the boxer can be said to be a product of Canada and not the UK as that is the country that made him into the boxer he is. Tua and Tzyu were both emigrated to NZ/Australia, but it was in those countries that they developed and made their names as boxers, so it's harder to make those claims with them.
Still what it boils down to is what the athlete themselves identifies as. In Tua's case the most accurate description would probably by "Samoan NZer" as he is proud of both countries.

Mar 19, 2003

This message has been deleted by the author.

SpaceMonkey · Mar 19, 2003

If these photos from Tua's training camp are anything to go by, Rahman could be in some trouble. Dave's looking in pretty good shape...

ozbash · Mar 19, 2003

shit, he does look good.

the best englush boxer i ever seen (and i have seen henry cooper fight,and gentle joe bugnor) is that prince naseem ?? clown.
anyone know what he,s doing ?

tua v rahman

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