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TWO new Brisbane teams

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,107
Its sink or swim but for the Sydney teams only right?
Yep.

The NRL could afford to loose a few clubs in Sydney, but if e.g. the Broncos, Storm, or Warriors went tits up it'd hurt the NRL badly.

It isn't fair, it's business.
This is where they miss the point

Sydney means corporate money

But regions provide juniors
You don't need 9 clubs in Sydney to exploit the corporate money in Sydney.

In fact, the fact that there's a significant sponsorship gap between the haves and have nots in Sydney, and that clubs regularly struggle to fill all their sponsorship space, shows that the corporate money in Sydney is largely exhausted.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,107
The big issue is.....Sydney clubs are a HUGE part of the appeal of rugby league to this day. They are our history.
Nobody is bigger than the game.

You could kill any club now and in a couple generations they'd be a nonentity anymore, just like Annandale, Glebe, Newtown, etc, and increasingly so the Bears.

The only reason the Bears has stung is because it was poorly managed. If the NS region wasn't left to rot on the vine after the failed merger then they'd have been effectively forgotten by now just like the Steelers have been in the same time period.
I would not object to losing Sydney clubs by natural attrition though.
Everybody says that until it's actually time to let a team die, then suddenly it's all monologues about 'tradition' and faux-outrage from "massive fans" that never cared enough to support the club financially and show up to games...
 
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MugaB

Bench
Messages
4,097
Nobody is bigger than the game.

You could kill any club now and in a couple generations they'd be a nonentity anymore, just like Annandale, Glebe, Newtown, etc, and increasingly so the Bears.

The only reason the Bears has stung is because it was poorly managed. If the NS region wasn't left to rot on the vine after the failed merger then they'd have been effectively forgotten by now just like the Steelers have been in the same time period.

Everybody says that until it's actually time to let a team die, then suddenly it's all monologues about 'tradition' and faux-outrage from "massive fans" that never cared enough to support the club financially and show up to games...
I.E souffs march the streefs
 

Wizardman

First Grade
Messages
6,337
Nobody is bigger than the game.

You could kill any club now and in a couple generations they'd be a nonentity anymore, just like Annandale, Glebe, Newtown, etc, and increasingly so the Bears.

The only reason the Bears has stung is because it was poorly managed. If the NS region wasn't left to rot on the vine after the failed merger then they'd have been effectively forgotten by now just like the Steelers have been in the same time period.

Everybody says that until it's actually time to let a team die, then suddenly it's all monologues about 'tradition' and faux-outrage from "massive fans" that never cared enough to support the club financially and show up to games...
I've taken an Ivan Drago stance toward a team dying in NSW. If they die, they die.
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
Yep.

The NRL could afford to loose a few clubs in Sydney, but if e.g. the Broncos, Storm, or Warriors went tits up it'd hurt the NRL badly.

It isn't fair, it's business.

You don't need 9 clubs in Sydney to exploit the corporate money in Sydney.

In fact, the fact that there's a significant sponsorship gap between the haves and have nots in Sydney, and that clubs regularly struggle to fill all their sponsorship space, shows that the corporate money in Sydney is largely exhausted.

That super league mentality & removal of bears hurt game & helped opposition codes more than anything else in past 30 years. Growing doesn't mean jettisoning fans
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,107
That super league mentality & removal of bears hurt game & helped opposition codes more than anything else in past 30 years. Growing doesn't mean jettisoning fans
I am/was a Bears fan, it's complicated, but it's a myth that there was a mass exodus of Bears fans to other codes.

I know/knew a lot of Bears fans, and I don't know of any that jumped to another code/sport that they weren't already interested in after the Bears dropped out of the NRL. In other words there weren't a lot of people whom showed no prior interest in, e.g., AFL suddenly becoming Swans fans.
Sure that is just an anecdote, but the only "evidence" that people ever produce to support the hypothesis that there was a mass exodus are anecdotes, and normally much less reliable ones frankly.

The only reason NS has struggled as a market since the Bears left is because it's been left without an NRL club active in the region, and without direct pathways to the NRL. That set of circumstances is largely the Bears own fault, as they've actively tried to prevent other NRL teams from moving in on the region, and is also easily preventable.

Take my example of the Steelers from before, they effectively lost their team at about the same time that the Bears did in a very similar fashion, yet the impact on Wollongong has been much less because the Dragons effectively took over the region. If Manly and/or Easts had been allowed to takeover NS in a similar manner then NS wouldn't be in the state that it's in now.
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
I am/was a Bears fan, it's complicated, but it's a myth that there was a mass exodus of Bears fans to other codes.

I know/knew a lot of Bears fans, and I don't know of any that jumped to another code/sport that they weren't already interested in after the Bears dropped out of the NRL. In other words there weren't a lot of people whom showed no prior interest in, e.g., AFL suddenly becoming Swans fans.
Sure that is just an anecdote, but the only "evidence" that people ever produce to support the hypothesis that there was a mass exodus are anecdotes, and normally much less reliable ones frankly.

The only reason NS has struggled as a market since the Bears left is because it's been left without an NRL club active in the region, and without direct pathways to the NRL. That set of circumstances is largely the Bears own fault, as they've actively tried to prevent other NRL teams from moving in on the region, and is also easily preventable.

Take my example of the Steelers from before, they effectively lost their team at about the same time that the Bears did in a very similar fashion, yet the impact on Wollongong has been much less because the Dragons effectively took over the region. If Manly and/or Easts had been allowed to takeover NS in a similar manner then NS wouldn't be in the state that it's in now.

I know plenty. Every norths fan I meet is no longer a fan of NRL. Evidence is there. Rise of swans coincides with departure of bears & guess where most of their members live?! Sad thing is not just the loss of these fans but their kids who weren't taken to games & never became fans themselves.

Wollongong still get games - don't know what ur talking about.
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
Whom never would have been in the position of having to march in the streets in the first place if they'd cared enough to show up to games and financially support their "beloved" club.

Ur just an opinionated outsider who doesn't know what ur talking about. Best thing NRL ever did (under duress) was bringing back rabbits. Around this time & 2014 saw proliferation of bunny logo on cars & random South's jersey became a meme.
After Superleague being an NRL fan wasn't something ppl were proud of & this became first major display on that level since then. Bringing back bears would have same affect. Large dormant fanbase shut out of game
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,107
I know plenty. Every norths fan I meet is no longer a fan of NRL.
That doesn't mean that they suddenly became interested in other sports where they had no interest beforehand.
Evidence is there. Rise of swans coincides with departure of bears & guess where most of their members live?!
It also coincides with the Swans becoming a genuine contender and making the grand final for the first time since moving to Sydney (and the first time since 1945), and going on a golden run that only ended a few years ago...

Occam's razor.
Sad thing is not just the loss of these fans but their kids who weren't taken to games & never became fans themselves.
You don't need their parents to take them to games to make them fans.

If e.g. Manly were active in the region and heavily marketing themselves, then they'd have converted plenty of fans by now.
Wollongong still get games - don't know what ur talking about.
f**k off with that nonsense.

NS is within easy traveling distance of more top flight RL than almost anywhere else in the world. They literally have a smorgasbord or NRL clubs within an hour or so of where they live.

There is nothing stopping anybody in NS from attending NRL matches except for the fact that the NRL has totally failed to even try to entice them to do so in last 20 years.
 
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The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,107
Ur just an opinionated outsider who doesn't know what ur talking about. Best thing NRL ever did (under duress) was bringing back rabbits. Around this time & 2014 saw proliferation of bunny logo on cars & random South's jersey became a meme.
After Superleague being an NRL fan wasn't something ppl were proud of & this became first major display on that level since then. Bringing back bears would have same affect. Large dormant fanbase shut out of game
"Opinionated outsider" lol. Go f**k yourself.

The idea that Souths being forced back into the league by a dodgy court ruling somehow lead to a renaissance for the NRL is the biggest piece of revisionist history and myth making that I've ever read on here. Just utter BS.
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
That doesn't mean that they suddenly became interested in other sports where they had no interest beforehand.

It also coincides with the Swans becoming a genuine contender and making the grand final for the first time since moving to Sydney (and the first time since 1945), and going on a golden run that only ended a few years ago...

Occam's razor.

You don't need their parents to take them to games to make them fans.

If e.g. Manly were active in the region and heavily marketing themselves, then they'd have converted plenty of fans by now.

f**k off with that nonsense.

NS is within easy traveling distance of more top flight RL than almost anywhere else in the world. They literally have a smorgasbord or NRL clubs within an hour or so of where they live.

There is nothing stopping anybody in NS from attending NRL matches except for the fact that the NRL has totally failed to even try to entice them to do so in last 20 years.

Great, now why are there mainly swans fans in the northern suburbs & not banks town or Sutherland or Penrith?!

You're the same bloke who said Morton bay wouldn't cheer for their hated rival Redcliffe, but now you expect ppl living in bears territory to embrace Manly. Stay consistent.

NRL told a large region of Sydney & fanbase we don't want you anymore & wouldn't you know those ppl left & never came back
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
"Opinionated outsider" lol. Go f**k yourself.

The idea that Souths being forced back into the league by a dodgy court ruling somehow lead to a renaissance for the NRL is the biggest piece of revisionist history and myth making that I've ever read on here. Just utter BS.

It's true. NRL is stronger for having South's back. More ppl are engaged with the NRL & outwardly embracing their fandom.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,886
Great, now why are there mainly swans fans in the northern suburbs & not banks town or Sutherland or Penrith?!

You're the same bloke who said Morton bay wouldn't cheer for their hated rival Redcliffe, but now you expect ppl living in bears territory to embrace Manly. Stay consistent.

NRL told a large region of Sydney & fanbase we don't want you anymore & wouldn't you know those ppl left & never came back
That’s a lot of hypothesis. As far as I can find there is no data to support or deny claims that rl fans became afl fans, kids in ns aren’t supporting nrl in some way, there is a mythical 250k bears fans just waiting to come out of the woodwork, swans have a massive membership base in bears territory, people wouldn’t travel to bankwest, sfs or manly to support a club that made an effort to take over the old bears region and engage them. For me it would make sense for roosters to take over lower ns and manly upper ns regions.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
44,886
It's true. NRL is stronger for having South's back. More ppl are engaged with the NRL & outwardly embracing their fandom.
It’s stronger for having a souths back that is owned by a Hollywood A lister With very rich mates. They got lucky.
within a year of being back in they had the lowest crowd avg in the comp! That’s how much the fans cared!!
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
That’s a lot of hypothesis. As far as I can find there is no data to support or deny claims that rl fans became afl fans, kids in ns aren’t supporting nrl in some way, there is a mythical 250k bears fans just waiting to come out of the woodwork, swans have a massive membership base in bears territory, people wouldn’t travel to bankwest, sfs or manly to support a club that made an effort to take over the old bears region and engage them. For me it would make sense for roosters to take over lower ns and manly upper ns regions.

Area lost main sporting team & then embraced swans more than any other area at same time - u do the math.

You have no understanding of Sydney & the identity of clubs with what ur proposing.
 

Pippen94

Juniors
Messages
775
It’s stronger for having a souths back that is owned by a Hollywood A lister With very rich mates. They got lucky.
within a year of being back in they had the lowest crowd avg in the comp! That’s how much the fans cared!!

It's stronger for returning fans that were lost from the game. Along with eels probably biggest fanbase in rugby league capital (I say biggest).

NRL/clubs have done bad job prioritizing attendance & membership. Not maximizing fanbase is one thing, eliminating them is whole next level of dumb - which nrl did with norths
 

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