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Ultrathread II: BF free since 83.

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Are you deeming ultra to be greater or lesser than Super?

Personally i don't believe the two are comparable.

In fact ultra, not being a simile of super, would very much be the lesser
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
151,017
Are you deeming ultra to be greater or lesser than Super?

Personally i don't believe the two are comparable.

In fact ultra, not being a simile of super, would very much be the lesser

Ultrathread is a BF free thread
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
If that is true Twizzle than i think Ultra is under selling.

If Ultraman and Superman had a fight, i think Superman would win.

Perhaps this should be the UltraSuperthread.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
24,567
Hot topic - what do people think of the current budget proffered up by the government?
 

Misanthrope

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
47,604
Ultra is technically greater than super. That's why I picked it.

I don't have any major objections with the current budget save their desire to close the loophole that's allowed me to avoid paying my HELP debt by never earning money in Australia >_>
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Pointless budget that still doesn't do enough for rural areas and primary producers.

But then, no budget is ever going to do enough in that area because there's just not enough voters out there to decide an election.

Budgets are on a cycle
1. Hard arse, slash and burn
2. Consolidate with some sweetners
3. Handjobs for everyone in the hope you'll vote us back in.

And then we'll f**k you in a way you won't enjoy.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
Where do you see rugby league in, say, 30 to 50 years?

There's been really enourmous changes in the last 30 odd years, since 82 anyway, but some pretty bad decision making has squandered some good work. 95 expansion in particular was really poorly executed and compounded some underlying issues of previous expansions. Which says that any future expansions need to have an understanding that it can take a decade or more for a reasonable establishment of a side before real panic sets in, and there may have to be reasonable support given to any new sides.

Will all the current clubs still be around? Will anyone die or move? What would you actually like to see occur?
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,546
I would like to see a 20 team comp, with Perth & Adelaide getting the nod.

A few Sydney teams to possibly relocate, As for who, I wouldnt like to be the one making the call. No matter who it is the call would be painful. In the current climate my opinion would be the Tigers having the most to fear.

One referee

Video ref only allowed to rule on touch in goal and grounding. Grounding cant be watched in anything but normal speed. If the grounding isnt clear then refs call & get on with it. After the call the broadcasters are banned from doing super slo mo and bagging the decision.

Get rid of the wrestle.
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
Is relocation viable? Bringing a team with history and baggage to a new market just doesn't seem to be worth it. I'd rather a Sydney brand scrapped and a new team with a new identity brought in if need be, let the locals attach to the team fully.

If you are relocating a team, chances are the team is garbage. Trying to gain a communities enthusiasm with a historically shit team just seems counter intuitive.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
45,712
see i think expansion has been bad for the quality of the afl competition..

for years, GWS & Gold Coast have essentially been extra byes for a team.. a guaranteed 4 points..

it's only recently that the two have started being competitive, and that's based on the fact that they got the cream of the crop in draft picks for years.. essentially stacking the sides with gun juniors..

imagine a league side with james tedesco, adam reynolds, george burgess, jack bird, dylan walker & jason taumololo..

what's then compounded the issue for other clubs is that these juniors, who should have really gone to some of the other cellar dwellers in recent years, have not been made available, so the quality of available players for them has been diminished, meaning that they can't build back up as per the cycle of boom and bust that a draft provides..

so the likes of melbourne demons and brisbane lions are stuffed for years to come..

the older clubs (okay, so the lions aren't technically that old, but both merged clubs had been) are left to suffer so the new teams can get their success and build a fan base..

to me, it's a false economy..
 

afinalsin666

First Grade
Messages
8,163
Relocation has worked for fumbleball. It seems less sucky than killing teams.

Less sucky for existing fans, I agree. But the existing fans won't be making it to home games, the new city will be. Old fans will buy merch still, but the new city's dragons fans, dogs fans, rabbits fans etc will be less likely to support an old rival than a new face. The first few years will be rough, but it'll be rough for long-term gain.
 

Red Bear

Referee
Messages
20,882
see i think expansion has been bad for the quality of the afl competition..

for years, GWS & Gold Coast have essentially been extra byes for a team.. a guaranteed 4 points..

it's only recently that the two have started being competitive, and that's based on the fact that they got the cream of the crop in draft picks for years.. essentially stacking the sides with gun juniors..

imagine a league side with james tedesco, adam reynolds, george burgess, jack bird, dylan walker & jason taumololo..

what's then compounded the issue for other clubs is that these juniors, who should have really gone to some of the other cellar dwellers in recent years, have not been made available, so the quality of available players for them has been diminished, meaning that they can't build back up as per the cycle of boom and bust that a draft provides..

so the likes of melbourne demons and brisbane lions are stuffed for years to come..

the older clubs (okay, so the lions aren't technically that old, but both merged clubs had been) are left to suffer so the new teams can get their success and build a fan base..

to me, it's a false economy..
Yeah I would agree with that, the way the draft was done meant that if you were on the way down when or ust after the expansion sides came in you were stuffed, you didn't get that chance to replenish. Melbourne, St Kilda, WBD, brisbane were all rekt by that. The first three though are now showing reasonable signs of life. Teams who are struggling now are carlton, who have stuffed themselves, GC who have a rotten group of players and were too reliant on one player and Brisbane who are perennially stuffed. brisbane have been the big losers, really, because suddenly AFL dont care about them, all energy into the GC.

That's why im cautious of actually expanding the game beyond 16 teams, you can really dilute the talent pool (as happened in 95) doing too much at once and really stuff things around.

It also shows that expansion will involve a bit of pain in the near term. Obviously question is whether it is worth it? For the AFL I guess Qld's looking a little dire for them at present, and GWS are pretty easy to ignore. It'll be very interesting when the Swans have a couple of doldrum years what happens up here.

I tend to think some clubs will eventually be squeezed. Cronulla are always vulnerable. Wests Tigers could also be vulnerable, because they seem to have squandered what was quite a good following in the last five years through various off field fights. I tend to think Manly are incredibly vulnerable though. They are now very isolated where they are, their crowds arent big and they could easily be in for a bit of a period in the doldrums. Their ground is within a few years of being abandoned (as I suspect Leichhardt will be) but they have shown no ability to bring fans to elsewhere, and I don't really see any money going towards Brookvale.

Also the Roosters fan problems could theoretically catch up to them, but they are so comfortable off field that there's no heat on them at this point.

I think the game definitely needs to expand its blueprint and, aside from my own desire to see a Bears side in the comp again (which will not happen, I don't think), I think Perth is a must and could be quite successful, there'll be another Qld side (but shouldn't be for a little while yet, they need to make sure GC are stable). I'm torn on Adelaide, for a national comp it sure makes sense but it strikes me as a pretty insular town with not a huge market for league anyway, and not really a massive growth region. Would also like a second NZ team. If you could add those four sides with say, two new teams, two relocations, you could have a reasonable mix. If at all possible, anyway.

I guess it'd take a pretty hardline approach to sydney clubs encountering financial difficulties for anything like that to happen.
 
Messages
15,545
Expansion needs to start at the grassroots. If you want a team in Perth for instance, stick a NSW cup team there. Affiliate it with one of the NRL teams like the Tigers, (just to pick one) so it has a pathway to the NRL. Pump some money into the local competitions so that they can set up a decent standard and then foster it for 10 or so years, pay the odd retired NRL great to go over and play in the local A grade comp for a few years. In that time, you should start to see a few WA juniors making the jump to NRL. Make the Tigers play a few home games per year over there as well. Once you have a good local comp with two or three WA boys playing in the NRL and a decent strength NSW cup side, that's when you get an NRL team up and running over there.

Then you already have a strong local competition providing juniors, a NSW cup team which can give you at least the bare bones of a top 25 for an NRL team and external recruiting should do the rest. If your pulling 15 players out of other NRL squads to make up 25, it won't have that great an impact on the rest of the competition.

If you just plonk a team in there form scratch and pluck a full 25 man squad from all the other NRL sides, you weaken the entire comp.

If you start it the way I suggested, you have 10 years of growth plus a ready made junior and supporter base behind the club before it's even begun to be serious.

Would be so easy in WA as its full of league supporting NSW and QLD expats who would get behind a team. The govt would get behind it and the stadium is already there.

Ok. The team probably still has some lean years but most teams do when they start out.
 

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