Union gets it right

[imported_Mystery Man]

Like many people, I have been advocating a combined Pacific Islands team for some time now. Individually, nations like Papua New Guinea, Tonga, Samoa and Fiji cannot compete with Australia, Great Britain and New Zealand. However, a combined team would be far more competitive, and would enable the top players from those nations to play high level test football. Unfortunately, rugby league administrators have lacked the vision or organisation to implement such an idea. On the other hand, rugby union, who already have a relatively strong international scene, appear to be on the verge of creating their own combined Pacific Islands team. Why is it that league administrators continue to neglect international football?

From http://www.rugbyheaven.com-

Pacific Islanders agree to let loose their 'Lions'</HEADLINE>

Wellington: Fiji, Samoa and Tonga yesterday agreed to put aside decades of rugby rivalry and form a combined side to tour leading nations from next year. Acting chief executive of the Fijian Rugby Union Bob Challenor said: "Everybody came to the meeting [in Wellington] with a very positive attitude and we have made tremendous progress. "Key in achieving this has been a good schedule of matches." Under the International Rugby Board touring schedule, Fiji were due to host the All Blacks next year, South Africa owed a match to Samoa, and Tonga were due to host Australia. "The principle agreed at the meeting that these matches should be given to the Pacific Islanders," Challenor explained. Given the time constraints in the SANZAR schedule, Challenor said it was likely the combined team would have to accept playing the fixtures in Australia and New Zealand to overcome the tight July-August Test program in the Southern Hemisphere. "That is clearly no problem for us and we hope no problem for SANZAR," Challenor said. It was agreed the islanders would model their set-up on the British Lions, with a coach - to be appointed by an islanders' board - who was supported by the national coaches of the individual unions. "The meeting agreed the key to making this a success was not quotas [of players from each union] but picking a team that was going to play the best attacking rugby in the world and at least give a damn good game, if not actually pick up a few scalps," Challenor said. The three unions will meet representatives from the English rugby union in Auckland today to discuss arrangements for England's South Pacific tour next year. A request for an extra match from England was also added to the agenda yesterday. The Australian Rugby Union executive committee will meet today to discuss the ramifications of the islanders' decision. The new side may prove a boon to Australian Super12 sides, offering competitive warm-up matches. NSW in particular would benefit from a match, with only five Super12 home games scheduled for next year.

 

[CanadianSteve]

Union does seem to get the international scene right. League could probably use such a combined team even more than union, if it would make a side that could compete with England and NZ, if not the Kangaroos.
How good would a Pacific Islands league team be? Could they compete with an NRL side? An SOO team?
Would such a team be made up of all players from the NRL? i.e. are there enough Pac Island players in the NRL to make up a team?

 

[ozbash]

it would be an incredible team in either code.
the likes of umaga,lomu,alitini for union, the vagana,sseu seu,perrilini,iro, etc etc.
potentially world beaters....

 

[Hass]

Rugby League is crying out for a Pacific Islands type side. I'd like to think of it more in the model of the West Indies cricket team, than the Lions Rugby team.

In my book, PNG would have to be part of this Pacific Islands team. This would give the people of PNG a competitive team to support.

PACIFIC ISLANDS MEBER NATIONS:

Papua New Guinea
Fiji
Samoa
Tonga
Cook Islands

Of course any other minor nations could contribute players, but the Leagues of these nations could effectively run the International team.

This would give Rugby League 4 genuine International teams (Aus, NZ, GB and Pac Is).

Work needs to be continued in ressurecting the game in France as well as expanding in Europe (most notably Russia).

This isn't a massive International scence, but it could certainly develop into one that all Rugby League fans take pride in. Especially if it had a regular calendar.

Cheers.

 

[imported_youngie]

A pacific Island team would be fantastic, and could serve to increase the games International popularity, but can you really see it ever happening??

At this stage I would think certainly not, I have no confidence in the NRL doing anything that is good for the game!

I hate thinking that way, but after so many stuff up's I honestly can't see those that run the League doing anything good for the game until they are all replaced

 

[CanadianSteve]

Ozbash: I was surprised by the guys you mentioned in union - I thought they were New Zealanders. I'm confused - I thought a Pacific Islands team would have players who were born in one of the islands, and not eligible to play for NZ or Aus in either code. Is that right, or could it have players born in NZ but of Pacific Island heritage? I didn't know all the players you mentioned, but would Umaga and Lomu play for a Pacific Islands team since they are already All Blacks?

 

[bender]

I have long been an advocate of this a Pacific Islands combined team playing in an international side. That would give league a great quad series. If they really wanted to get a presence why not play a 5 nations with a rest of the world side made up of players from other nations.

The two sides might look something like this:

Tuquiri, Bai, Iro, Vagana, Vaikona, Gene, Lam, Dymock, Civonoceva, Lautiti,Vagana, O'Reilly,Westley

Schicofsky (Pol), El Masri (lebanese), Houles (Fra), Coorey (lebanese), Pescinov (Rus), Dekicche (Fra), Polla Mounta (Gre), Bloem (SA), Corvo (Ita), Preston (USA), Davico (Ita), Mescia (Ita), Rubin (Rus)

The great thing about this side is the good players from non traditional countries such as Houles, Preston, Pesconov, can only benefit by playing in such high intensitygames andwith such good players. It would also stop players from non traditional countries from playing for Australia, NZ or Britain (eg Civonoceva and Tuquiri) because theycould still get good international competition from playing for the lesser nations.

 

[ozbash]

steve, imho , its not right but the boys from the pacific are eligible to play in either team as long as they live in nz.
they dont have to be born in the islands, just have ancestry.
during the union and league world cups,the players who dont make the all blacks or kiwis,get to play for the maori,s or an island nation.eg tonga-samoa etc
its a silly rule but its there to be either used or abused,whichever opinion you hold.....

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

The Combined Pacific Nations concept for rugby league was proposed to the ARL members of the RLIF board in a carefullywritten private letter last February. The letter was acknowledged and ccs were included on the letter of acknowledgement.

However only one of the cc s ever actually acknowledged that he had received the letter. And the proposal was never considered at the RLIF board meeting in Sydney in March. Three "British" delegates had flown to Australia, at RLIF expense, purportedly for the RLIF meeting. Geoff Carr stated in a phone conversation with the author of the letter that the RLIF board had not had enough time to consider the proposal. "There is only so much that you can discuss in one morning." Apparently there was other pressing business -- other than the RLIF business that the delegates had flown to Australia for -- that the delegates had to attend to that day.

Carr is, along with Colin Love, the person responsible for the Kangaroo tour cancellation fiasco.

Rugby union is run by people with more brains, more honesty and more dedication to their sport. They have stolen the Combined Pacific Nations idea. Geoff Carr is barely conscious most of the time, so he probably doesn't even know this. Colin Love is busy with his law practice. The control of the ARL by Carr, Love, Barnhill et al is the reason whyrugby unionisrunning rings around us.

 

[imported_Mystery Man]

"There is only so much that you can discuss in one morning." - Geoff Carr

Translation : "We couldn't give a shit."

What a disgrace. The fact that only one morning was dedicated to the future of the international game is astounding. Rugby league's greatest enemies are within. Forget rugby union- if these are the people responsible for running the international game, the sport will be dead in twenty years.

The next ten years are make-or-break for league. In Australia, the ARU are going to make a massive amount of money, out of the world cup, in 2003. This will be followed by the the new television contract for SANZAR in 2005. In 1995, they signed a contract for $1 billion dollars over ten years (split three ways). The next contract will be a lot bigger. With the Australian and New Zealand unions being cashed up, it's already going to be hard enough for the NRL to keep its top players, but with the continued mismanagement of the game, the players will be glad to leave. The NRL and ESL seasons are too long, there is no structured schedule of international games, and what games they do play are either tacked onto the end of a club round or poorly promoted. The union season, on the other hand, has a much better balance of provincial/club and test matches.

If league wants to survive, things have got to change. And make no mistake about it, if Australian league falls, world league will fall.

 

[G@v]

You can't just blame Carr and Love. Their attitudes are a symptom of a much deeper malaise which has affected Aussie Rugby League for at least the past decade. I don't believe the majority of Aussie League fans give that much thought to the international game. There is a certain parochial attitude amonsgt League fans in the UK, where the club comes first, but this is a much greater problem in Australia. Many RL fans in Oz are completely ignorant of happenings outside the NRL competition, and my view is that a lot couldn't give a shit if the game died internationally. All that matters to them is their own club, the game comes a distant second.

 

[legend]

Spot on Gav. A lot of fans could'nt give a toss about the international game and I would say the majority are Souths and Saints fans. They will always put their club before anything else and that is unfortunate for the international game and I don't think anything will change to be honest. They fail to see the bigger picture.

BTW Willow, please note I said majority of fans, not all. I know how much you love an argument.lol

 

[imported_Roopy4246]

International League had a following in Australia when we used to lose every now and then. New Zealand, Britain and a combined Pacific Islands team need to get up and beat Australia for the interest in the game at the highest level to return. The Australian League team must have one of the greatest winning streaks in World sport going at the moment, but what we really need is a contest.
I've never wanted to see an Aussie team beaten before, but I not only want to see the poms beat us, I want to see them give us an awful hiding. If that happens we will be able to hold the next World Cup in Australia and sell it out, the big games anyway.

The administrators of the game are hopeless - no doubt about it, but we should take a moment to reflect on how far the international scene has progressed.
Twenty five years ago there were less than a dozen international players in the NRL, and they were all from either NZ and England. Now we have players from a dozen countries in the NRL.
Ten years ago a combined Pacific Islands team would have been a joke. Now they look, on paper, to be a serious contender as the world's best team, and they are improving at a rate of knots.
Progress seems to be being made despite the administrators rather than because of them, but progress is definately being made.

We now seriously discuss how the game is going in Russia, United States, Japan and Lebanon to name a few places. Just a few years ago that couldn't have happened.

 

[imported_youngie]

Legend: I know you are refferring to the "majority" of Saints and Souths fans, but I can't help but feel it would be likely for me to fall in that majority.
Personally I do put my club, St George, ahead of everything else. I do not have the same level ofpassion for anything other than my team. Despite this I still care about the international game and to say that a lot of Saints fans couldn't give a toss about the international game is a statement I can't help but feel is wrong.

Why do you think that and what evidence do you have to support your argument that Saints and Souths fans in particuler don't care about the international game.
The majority of supporters as a whole, not just supporters of these two proud clubs, do not care about the international game.

It is the majority of supporters of the code we need to address about this issue, it is ridiculous to finger point at the supporters of a single club.

 

[G@v]

I might be in the minority here, but I follow the game of Rugby League. My club of choice are the Bradford Bulls. However, I was never brought up to follow the sport so that could be the reason why I don't feela deep attachment to one particular club.

I do think British RL fans care more about the international game. To British fans the ultimate in League is GB v Australia, or the World Cup. I think this was probably the case with Aussie fans up until the 1980's.

One thing I find amazing is to read about some NRL player moving to the ESL and how some Aussie fans view this as equalto switching codes.

 

[imported_Hazy]

Rugby union is run by people with more brains, more honesty and more dedication to their sport.

I like this analogy (seeing Im on the committee of my local union club)

But I also think that RU clubs, understand that they are not the pinnacle of their sport, while RL clubs - as a result of professionalism(ie money to pay players, therefore clubs become employers of said player, therefore clubs demands - fit player to push towards premiership) these'needs' become more important than wether the 'national' team beats anyone else.

Sad but true.
On a related note - a small town outside Tarree(?) formed a Rugby League team, with a pretty hefty sponsorship from the town's publican.
This team played in the area's second or third comp.
As this 'sponsorship' was attractive towards players, some players left teams from the 'higher' comp.

To counter this terrible terrible blight on the 'senior' game - the Taree(? - again Im not sure) Rugby League passed a motion that no new teams could form in the lower comps in case they took more 'senior' players.

Sounds like feathering your own nest rather than 'expanding' the gospel of RL

 

[Eagleneil]

The problem with the international game at the moment is the dominance of the Aussies. It seems to me that the SL and most fans accepted this and the international game has been set back by this acceptance. The idea seems to be to get the ESL competitive and then try again. In other words, get your own house in order before trying again. Watching the NRL games on tv and the State of Origin games, it is easy to see how RL fans view their clubs as more important than the international game. Interestingly, this attitude is filtering through in ESL, but I don't think to the same extent as in Aus! The only thing that could re-ignite the spark will be for the Aussies to get beaten by GB, we got a wake-up call in the 80's, but all that happened was an acceptance of the Aussies as No 1, and the intraverted views of the people running the game.
If you can find any, look at the union clubs attendances, usually in the hundreds and not the thousands, what they do right though is making a spectacle of the internationals, something that the RL authorities consistantly fail to do!
If you don't market the games properly, people don't know there are games going on! Result, apathy! The ashes series has been vastly undersold in this country, and if the authorities aren't bothered, why should the fans?