vs roostes

[Iafeta]

If Leilua supposedly has control of the ball, then why does Mara come up with it at the end with such ease :? Its quite clearly a refereeing blunder, what MV has said is quite correct. If two players place pressure on the ball in goal at the same time it is a try. However, if one of those players has possession of the ball, this quite clearly is not a try, otherwise what you'll see is every fullback who gets trapped in goal will be mooching out brown coffee in the back of their dacks trying to ensure they keep the ball up off the ground, as any touch from the attacking team would be deemed a try.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Quite clearly huhh.
Neither of them had possession of the ball at the time of or before grounding. Mara had his left ARM on top of it, Leilua had his right HAND around it. Both have downward pressure on the ball at the moment of grounding. I gather you guys havent seen the replay, it's up on NRL.com.
Mara never had possession of the ball until after the grounding. Quite clearly.

 

[Skram]

If Leilua had been diving at the ball in the same fashion as Mara (face down, chest near the ball) and it's simultaneous then I'd be inclined to give it, but he was more upright and trying with his right hand to bring the ball up and towards his left to clasp it yet was stopped by Mara's grip on the ball with Mara's left. The fact that Leilua's hand then got wedged between Mara's chest and the ball is fortuitous for him but ultimately irrelevant, Mara had control and Leilua had incidental contact with the ball. Clear no try.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

If Leilua had been diving at the ball in the same fashion as Mara (face down, chest near the ball)

and it's simultaneous then I'd be inclined to give it, but he was more upright and trying with his right hand to bring the ball up and towards his left to clasp it yet was stopped by Mara's grip on the ball with Mara's left.

The fact that Leilua's hand then got wedged between Mara's chest and the ball is fortuitous for him but ultimately irrelevant

Mara had control and Leilua had incidental contact with the ball.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

I don't appreciate my time being wasted by having to repeatedly state the obvious but must call you out on your complete disregard for the facts. The devil is always in the detail.

If Leilua had been diving at the ball in the same fashion as Mara (face down, chest near the ball)

How is this relevant? Diving forward, backward, sidewaysor doing a somersault?

but he was more upright and trying with his right hand to bring the ball up and towards his left to clasp it yet was stopped by Mara's grip on the ball with Mara's left.

Mara hand no grip on the ball, Leilua did. The ball was between Leilua's right hand "grip" and Mara's forearm.

The fact that Leilua's hand then got wedged between Mara's chest and the ball is fortuitous for him but ultimately irrelevant

the fact that Mara's arm was fortuitously preventing Leilua from grabbing the ball with both hands is fortuitous for Mara but untilmately irrelevant

Mara had control and Leilua had incidental contact with the ball.

I'm gonna sue you for wasting another 10 seconds of my time.

 

[Skram]

I don't appreciate my time being wasted by having to repeatedly state the obvious but must call you out on your complete disregard for the facts. The devil is always in the detail.


How is this relevant? Diving forward, backward, sidewaysor doing a somersault?

You're not stating the obvious, if it were obvious there would be no discussion.
It's relevant because if Leilua was in practically any other body position other than 'reaching behind his body with his right hand pulling up on the ball' then it would be far more likely to be a try. As it stands his body being initally upright has left him with little hope of controlling a ball which is then behind him and underneath the left shoulder of the defending player.

Mara hand no grip on the ball, Leilua did. The ball was between Leilua's right hand "grip" and Mara's forearm.

Mara doesn't have to use his hands to control the ball, his forearm, shoulder or chest will all suffice for downward pressure.

the fact that Mara's arm was fortuitously preventing Leilua from grabbing the ball with both hands is fortuitous for Mara but untilmately irrelevant

It's actually likely the most relevant fact, I have little doubt that if Mara didn't get there in time Leilua would've scored a clear-cut try. However he did get there and as a result he put downward pressure on the ball at a time when Leilua was trying to ball the ball towards himself to gain control, which he was unable to do.

Check that image, if Leilua is putting downward pressure on the ball there then he must have double jointed, dislocatable wrists because otherwise his palm is facing towards Mara's shoulder and Mara is the one with downward pressure and Leilua's contact is merely helping Mara maintain control as Leilua is pulling the ball towards his own body and away from the ground in an attempt to gain control.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

that photo shows nothing at all.
Here's a link to the replay.

http://youtu.be/aLUFABqs3kE

You don't need to ground the ball from the top to have some downward pressure. Mara has more downward pressure than Leilua, who is coming from side-on, but that is irrelevant. As long as the vector of your force is below the horizontal. It was always going to be a try, unless Mara had dislodged the ball from Leilua's hand before it hit the ground. He shouldn't have tried to ground the ball but rather to knock it out of play.

 

[Iafeta]

Sorry atilla, we are going to have to agree to disagree here. There is no way known to man that was a try. Otherwise, as I say, fullbacks are in danger everytime they're trapped in goal. The key part here is Mara assumes possession of the ball before the Roosters player. The part that won him the ball, and well done by him I might add, is that last little shoulder and dive to the ground. He got there first, he had it, he comes up with, Roosters guy gets on it briefly, whilst in goal yes, but the Warriors have possession of the football. Its a goalline drop out in any other game, I guarantee you of that.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

I can't see Mara getting possession of the ball any more than Leilua. Not until after the grounding. I'm happy to agree to disagree, no worries.

 

[Iafeta]

One final thing if I may, because I did review your youtube video... 5 seconds is where Mara gets it first. I wish I knew how to do a print screen and then post it here, but you see Mara's taped hand has actually gripped the ball (this is before they go to ground). Leulia's arm is behind the ball, he does not have possession, as evidenced by his hand being completly open, all five fingers pointing to the ground, trying to locate the ball. From there, both players force the ball down, however Mara has never released possession, its actually being pulled into his left shoulder/bicep.

 

[Iafeta]

Mara has the ball gripped into his hand. Leilua does not.

 

[ozbash]

If Leilua supposedly has control of the ball, then why does Mara come up with it at the end with such ease

exactly...

FO Lyons/Sutton

 

[_addict]

I reckon we dodged a bullet with that game.

Roosters forward pack was good and matched, or maybe even edged ours, and the kicking game (apart from one into the back of our player) was causing all sorts of bother.

We got a gimmie off the back of SJ's footwork and lazy defence, and can be thankful that Maloney kicked well and they didn't.

On the video ref thing. I too thought Mara took possession. The Roosters nearly murdered that anyway. If the ball had been thrown inside we wouldn't be debating who had rights to force it. We might have gotten a square-up later anyways.

 

[hitman82]

I thought Mara had initial possession of the ball. I also thought the only reason Leilua didn't knock the ball on was because he was pushing the ball against Mara's arm. I really didn't think it was a case of simultaneous grounding.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Mara has the ball gripped into his hand. Leilua does not.

Mara is not even touching the ball at this stage, in fact he never touches it with his hand, only with his arm. You're making things up as if you were a lawyer.

 

[Iafeta]

I'm certainly no lawyer mate. But why speculate between the two of us. Lets let others look at that vision and make a comment. All I'll ask is whose hand is it with the tape on it that is quite clearly holding the football. Attila, I think we both know the answer mate.

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Wonder what Bill "I don't know the new free interchange rule" Harrigan will come out and say about this and other incidence during the game?

 

[Penrose Warrior]

I was away for the weekend, came back and saw that try and could not fathom how it was a try.

So in future, if a guy is caught in goal, the attacking team should wrap him up, force him into the ground and put a hand on the ball. Try?

 

[NZ Warrior]

I was away for the weekend, came back and saw that try and could not fathom how it was a try.

So in future, if a guy is caught in goal, the attacking team should wrap him up, force him into the ground and put a hand on the ball. Try?

I didn't want to get into this argument, but I was satisfied with both the Roosters' & Warriors' tries being given BOD. All I ask is that it's consistent.

But PW brings up another valid point. What if the scenario comes up, where a defending player is trying to get out of his own in-goal, tries to ground the ball in-field, but he grounds the ball on the line while an attacking player also puts his hand on the ball, simultaneously??? Is that a BOD try?

 

[Geohood]

Noone had possession initially. It's not as if Mara was running with the ball then got tackled by Leilua. As the ball was heading toward the ground, both players made contact with the ball in some way (how is irrelevant), and both kept that contact until the ball touched the ground. Simultaneous grounding. Try. Would have been given to any team, and I would not of complained if it was given to you guys.