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WA BEARS

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
Once funding goes back to pre covid levels it’s 26 million for lions and 30 million suns

and the point is that afl clubs in Queensland are vulnerable which is what I replied too

the dolphins are obviously going to exacerbate this for the afl hence their Inclusion

obviously making afl spend so much money propping up weak clubs in Queensland is a lot more effective than putting Mickey Mouse teams in Perth and Adelaide which will be sinkholes

afl is vulnerable in Queensland
Nope as usual youre still wrong lol. Google is your friend!
Pre covid year lions $23.1mill, suns $27.8mill, WC $12.6mill

its a real shame the nrl doesn’t have the money or ambition to be investing equal amounts in making RL a national,sport.
 
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Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
My god does anyone talk about the bears or WA here, or just wanna dribble about AFLs influence on Qld for the past 5 pages, seriously not wanting to stop you guys from talking about this stuff but seriously wrong thread fmd, find a thread or start one that isn't about this shit
If wb is involved he’ll be talking afl lol
 

Centy Coast

Juniors
Messages
55
If an Perth team is admitted who would they share an rivalry against ?. Obviously if they are with the Bears the rivalry would be against Manly but from an Perth perspective who would be their main rival ?, Melbourne ?.
I say Melbourne because the Storm obviously gained from the Reds demise when they first entered the NRL.
 
Messages
4,041
Correlation doesn't equal causation.

The Swans started going well after Tony Lockett joined in 95, carried them to their first GF in 50 years in 96, and was the head of a team that lead the way to a golden age that arguably continues more or less to this day.

Super 12 went well because of a mixture of the novelty factor, the excitement for the coming 2003 WC, and the fact that the standard of play in RU in the southern hemisphere at the time was actually really high. It's no coincidence that it's popularity tanks after 03 when a new, incredibly regressive, standard of play takes over from the old exciting one, the WC is in the review mirror, and SANZAR proceeded to make a bunch of really bad business decisions.

A-league didn't start until well after SL, so I don't know why we are even trying to pin their "success" on SL. They also didn't hit their peak in popularity until the early 2010s, after which they made a series of really bad business decisions of their own, that more or less stopped that growth in it's tracks, but I digress.

The point is that you don't need the SL war to explain the successes and failures of the other codes, in fact Occam's razor would suggest that with the sole exception of Super Rugby (that only happened because of the professionalisation of RL) that SL had no significant effect on the popularity of any of the other codes.

Frankly, trying to blame the other codes successes and failures on SL is at once an excuse for RL's own failures and a sickening form of self flattery that suggests a bloated sense of self importance within the sport.
The Swans chairman himself has admitted they got a leg up due to the SL war, if it wasn't a big factor then why the relative lack of growth since?

I didn't say the A-League or Super Rugby grew because of the SL war, I said they grew after it but their recent stagnation has a bit to do with RL stabilising and regrouping after the war.

SL has a lot to do with the stagnation in the game the last 20+ years and to suggest otherwise is disingenuous. We are only now adding Brisbane 2 back and thinking about adding Perth back. A position we were in in 1995. Should we have turned things around quicker? Yes, absolutely. But don't pretend like it didn't cause a massive impact on many fronts over the last couple of decades.
 

Wb1234

Juniors
Messages
1,948
Nope as usual youre still wrong lol. Google is your friend!
Pre covid year lions $23.1mill, suns $27.8mill, WC $12.6mill

its a real shame the nrl doesn’t have the money or ambition to be investing equal amounts in making RL a national,sport.
A national sport wouldn’t have clubs in qld which are basket cases

pretty much all of qld afl is struggling.

plus australia includes places like Canberra Wollongong Newcastle where afl has little presence

afl has teams in one more capital city in Australia than league does and has huge gaps in much of the country. Plus when you remember Auckland is in the nrl they actually have the same number of capital cities

I thought you would know all this
 
Messages
4,041
Describing two teams in Sydney and one on the GC is definitely not flooding the market either, but you are missing the point. It doesn't matter how many NRL sides you put in Brisbane, it'll have little to no impact on demand for the AFL.

Another lesson we can learn that is displayed well by the junk and fast food industry is that most people decide their preferences in adolescence.

McDonald's found that the younger they can get a kid to develop a habit of eating their food (i.e. addicted to it) the more they seemed to prefer it over their competition. In other words kids they got addicted to their food in youth would more likely than not still eat competitors food in adulthood, but they'd form a preference for their (McDonald's) food and not only would eat it more often than people whom weren't addicted to it at a young age, but would also eat it more often on average than their competitors food so long as it was available.

They also found that more often than not the child's preference for food informs the parent's decision and not the other way around. In other words, more often than not the parents would buy the food the kids want, over what they would prefer, once they had decided they were going to buy takeaway for the meal. Which is where things like happy meals come in.

So if you want to eat into a competitors market then you've got to get their kids, and get them as young as possible.

In the professional sports industry the most effective way to do that is through direct on the ground interaction through the grassroots, and sure expansion of the professional level can be a part of that (how are you going to get direct interaction in a place without a team for example), but in most places that have teams it's not a necessity, and can even be a negative (you never want to oversaturate a market).
Putting three teams in SEQ by say 2030 is hardly flooding a city the size of Brisbane (that is a RL city first and foremost). If you are the AFL or RU, sure you will always have a niche, but RL maxing out the number of pro sporting teams that the city can hold absolutely affects their ability to expand successfully... ask GWS. Sure they can put an extra team in the city of Sydney but if the city is maxed out already and the AFL has enough fans to support the Swans only, you are going to struggle, and they are.

McDonalds as an example absolutely can go into a smaller town with limited ability to support such businesses and take the opportunity in that town away from a competitor to exist there.
 
Messages
4,041
There’s def a time for brisbane3, in fact it’s a necessity at some point due to the stupid decision to admit the dolphins. If they’d admitted the firehawks there’d be no need for a brisbane3. The club report showed most rl fans in the northern corridor already followed a club.
And fans in the Tiger's territory don't? Doesn't mean that the Dolphins won't be well attended or that future generations won't adopt them as their team.

Please tell me exactly why the (although impressive) Firehawks bid was the better choice over the Dolphins'...

- finances - Dolphins
- region of SEQ that doesn't overlap the Broncos too much - Dolphins (Easts an inner city Brisbane club exactly as the Broncos are)
- potential to bring new fans to the game - Dolphins (over time, they will get their own 30k stadium in Moreton Bay and truly cater to the northern corridor

These were the main criteria and the Dolphins were number 1 in all three
 
Messages
4,041
Why does anyone currently living in Brisbane need an alternative to the Broncos AND now the Dolphins as well? Let alone 2 more.

Even the Broncos are a shadow of what they should be and Dolphins haven’t kicked a ball in first grade yet. Let them build to be huge clubs before throwing another couple of shiny clubs at the city.
I wouldn't say we need a couple more clubs but SEQ is a huge region now, much more than it was in 1995. Dolphins will cover the northern corridor and one day will get their own 30k stadium in Moreton Bay, the Broncos will cover Brisbane, the Titans will cover the Gold Coast and Ipswich is the other main centre and that Western Corridor is booming. Four SEQ sides will do and will close shop at NRL level for SEQ with all corners covered (and well enough spread out to learn the lessons from Sydney).
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,624
The Swans chairman himself has admitted they got a leg up due to the SL war, if it wasn't a big factor then why the relative lack of growth since?
Firstly, who gives a f**k what a Swans chairman's opinion is. Whether or not he's another dumb merkin that doesn't understand the difference between correlation and causation is irrelevant to the discussion.

Secondly, "relative lack of growth since"! The f**k are you talking about!

For simplicities sake we'll just look at members-

The Swans had 3,327 members in 1994.
1995- 6,088.
1996- 9,525.
1997- 22,109.

Jumping ahead to today (2022) they have 51,642, however they had their highest membership numbers in 2019 (pre-covid) with 61,912 members.
http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=228

Almost all their metrics see pretty consistent growth from the early 90s to 2019, with the exception of a few spurts after GF appearances in the late 90s, mid 00s, and early to mid 10s.
The sole exception to that pattern of consistent growth is their crowds, that have been pretty up and down since 1997, but also follow a pattern of their competitiveness on the field.

TL;DR- it's utter nonsense to suggest that the Swans growth stagnated after the SL war.
I didn't say the A-League or Super Rugby grew because of the SL war, I said they grew after it but their recent stagnation has a bit to do with RL stabilising and regrouping after the war.
Firstly, Super Rugby's peak in Australia was 96-04. So they didn't have a great deal of time to do much growing after SL before SR started to decline did they...

Secondly, Super Rugby and the A-league's successes and failures can easily be patterned by decisions they made within their own games. As such it's not necessary to add in unprovable airy-fairy nonsense like "they were only successful because of SL", so why attempt to force that factor to fit when Occam's Razor would suggest that it's not the case.

Furthermore, the A-league didn't see any real mainstream success until 2014, and SR didn't start to totally collapse until the mid 2010s either, by which time RL had already been well on the road to recovering from SL for a decade. So your assertion doesn't even make sense on that level.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,624
Putting three teams in SEQ by say 2030 is hardly flooding a city the size of Brisbane (that is a RL city first and foremost).
The point is in the principle... And frankly SEQ wouldn't need more club's if the NRL hadn't f**ked up expansion in Brisbane.
Putting three teams in SEQ by say 2030 is hardly flooding a city the size of Brisbane (that is a RL city first and foremost). If you are the AFL or RU, sure you will always have a niche, but RL maxing out the number of pro sporting teams that the city can hold absolutely affects their ability to expand successfully... ask GWS. Sure they can put an extra team in the city of Sydney but if the city is maxed out already and the AFL has enough fans to support the Swans only, you are going to struggle, and they are.

McDonalds as an example absolutely can go into a smaller town with limited ability to support such businesses and take the opportunity in that town away from a competitor to exist there.
Different economic pressures are forcing the small mum-and-pop out of business in that scenario though.

Without writing an essay; generally when a multinational corporation sends mum-and-pops out of business it's for objective reasons, not subjective ones.

The best example is a department store's ability to kill a whole main street worth of businesses in country towns.
It's not because people like the department store more than the mum-and-pops, it's because the department store has the ability to sell the same goods significantly cheaper than the independent stores, and the average consumer simply can't justify the extra expense of shopping on the main street instead of in the department store.

In other words the department store is offering, more or less, the same experience cheaper and/or better.

Those economic pressures aren't in play when two business are selling similar (or basically the same) products. At that point it's a game of subjective preference, and whether or not the individual consumer prefers Coke or Pepsi, a Big Mac or a Whopper, or in our case Aussie Rules or Rugby League, will be what informs their decision.

In other words there is no 'maxing out' a city's sports market, and the market share of sport's products in a city will fluctuate based on the preference of the inhabitance.
 
Messages
6,006
They have to set aside a few thousand for travelling fans, have a couple,of thou for Flexi membership rest would be corporates and no shows. They’ve literarily sold every available seat (around 50k now) for 15 years and have around 9,000 waiting for a full ticketed membership still Who have to pay an annual fee just to stay in the list! At subi they had 39k full memberships available in the 43.5k capacity. some people had been waiting for a full membership for 15 years!
One of the reasons the eagles generate more revenue from the football operations than any club in the country.

I would like a membership that entitles me to attend West Coast Eagles home matches. What options are available?

As the club remains at full capacity for home match-access memberships, the next best option available is In The Wings. As an In The Wings member, you will be allocated a place on the waitlist to obtain a home match-access membership, once available. In The Wings membership packages are $55 for one person, plus you can add up to one other adult and two juniors for an additional $5 each (a total of $70 for a household of two adults and two juniors). Click here to purchase an In The Wings membership package.

How long is the wait list if I join In The Wings?

This is difficult to answer accurately due to a variety of factors, such as the non-renewal rate of current home match-access members. To give an indication, in both the 2019 and 2020 seasons, the club was able to make an offer of Reserved Seat membership up to number 4,000 on the waitlist; further, for the 2020 season, all those past number 4,000 on the waitlist were made an offer of Flexi membership. Regardless of wait time, joining as an In The Wings member now will put you in the best position to obtain an access membership in the future.

That's an amazing level of support for the Eagles. The WA Gov should have built an 80k seat stadium.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
If an Perth team is admitted who would they share an rivalry against ?. Obviously if they are with the Bears the rivalry would be against Manly but from an Perth perspective who would be their main rival ?, Melbourne ?.
I say Melbourne because the Storm obviously gained from the Reds demise when they first entered the NRL.
Probably Storm due to the afl rivalry but no one natural, in the old days we could have gone out and started a blue with someone to create one lol.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
A national sport wouldn’t have clubs in qld which are basket cases

pretty much all of qld afl is struggling.

plus australia includes places like Canberra Wollongong Newcastle where afl has little presence

afl has teams in one more capital city in Australia than league does and has huge gaps in much of the country. Plus when you remember Auckland is in the nrl they actually have the same number of capital cities

I thought you would know all this
Lol, lions are nearly as big as broncos for crowds and members as are suns with titans. At the top level at least they are doing ok with the i vestment they are making. Given how paranoid nrl seem to be about competing with afl in qlnd they must be doing something right?
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
And fans in the Tiger's territory don't? Doesn't mean that the Dolphins won't be well attended or that future generations won't adopt them as their team.

Please tell me exactly why the (although impressive) Firehawks bid was the better choice over the Dolphins'...

- finances - Dolphins
- region of SEQ that doesn't overlap the Broncos too much - Dolphins (Easts an inner city Brisbane club exactly as the Broncos are)
- potential to bring new fans to the game - Dolphins (over time, they will get their own 30k stadium in Moreton Bay and truly cater to the northern corridor

These were the main criteria and the Dolphins were number 1 in all three
Finances, they were on par, tigers have as much revenue and asset base as dolphins.

they would have been a genuine brisbane2 team playing ft out of Suncorp, not some hybrid manly/dragons outer suburb team playing across three locations. This would have meant no need for discussions about the need for brisbane3

the club funded study Showed the north corridor had the largest number of fans who followed the broncos or another team already

bringing in the firehawks would have meant they could have become brisbanes south club and broncos north club, similar to how perth ended up split between eagles and dockers. then no need for brisbane3 and the ltd license could have been used for a market with zero clubs.

but we all know news ltd didn’t want the competition for the corporates for the broncos, hence why they directed Vlandys to Pick a club based 40km away from the city.
 
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LimeRick

Juniors
Messages
22
A national sport wouldn’t have clubs in qld which are basket cases

pretty much all of qld afl is struggling.

plus australia includes places like Canberra Wollongong Newcastle where afl has little presence

afl has teams in one more capital city in Australia than league does and has huge gaps in much of the country. Plus when you remember Auckland is in the nrl they actually have the same number of capital cities

I thought you would know all this

Just to be a pedant, but Auckland's not a capital.

It's by far the largest city in the same sense all the Australian state capitals are, but not technically a capital (that's Wellington).
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
That's an amazing level of support for the Eagles. The WA Gov should have built an 80k seat stadium.
If the economy back then had been like the last two years they probably would have, though they’d have been looking at well over $2bill which might still have been a stretch to justify.
 

Wb1234

Juniors
Messages
1,948
Lol, lions are nearly as big as broncos for crowds and members as are suns with titans. At the top level at least they are doing ok with the i vestment they are making. Given how paranoid nrl seem to be about competing with afl in qlnd they must be doing something right?
You just can’t stop talking about afl can you

this is a thread about a Perth team

one would think you could manage to talk about that rather than the sport you claim not to watch
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
You just can’t stop talking about afl can you

this is a thread about a Perth team

one would think you could manage to talk about that rather than the sport you claim not to watch
lol, in just two pages. You literally can’t join any thread discussion without talking about the afl
If your talking about flooding the market there is no better example than gws and gcs
Oh well I agree with vlandys

the dolphins are going to harm the lions

they will even help the broncos tits and a

afl is stuffed in qld their clubs are weak and with the dolphins they will both need more support

Gws and gcs are flooding the market there wasn’t demand for them and the only thing keeping them alive is the afl giving them ten million more than the average club
The lions get 26 million a year from the afl
The Gold Coast suns get 28 million a year from the afl
West coast eagles get 10 million from the afl

all nrl clubs receive the same grant they aren’t being kept alive by head office

if your idea of inroads in Auskick then sure the figures look good. But a recent survey showed afl ranked last in western Sydney in terms of junior numbers despite 200 million being spent

I love it when fans of regional teams argue against other regional teams.
Once funding goes back to pre covid levels it’s 26 million for lions and 30 million suns

and the point is that afl clubs in Queensland are vulnerable which is what I replied too

the dolphins are obviously going to exacerbate this for the afl hence their Inclusion

obviously making afl spend so much money propping up weak clubs in Queensland is a lot more effective than putting Mickey Mouse teams in Perth and Adelaide which will be sinkholes

afl is vulnerable in Queensland

A national sport wouldn’t have clubs in qld which are basket cases

pretty much all of qld afl is struggling.

plus australia includes places like Canberra Wollongong Newcastle where afl has little presence

afl has teams in one more capital city in Australia than league does and has huge gaps in much of the country. Plus when you remember Auckland is in the nrl they actually have the same number of capital cities

I thought you would know all this
 
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Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
49,630
With dolphins confirming they are going with a fire engine red white and gold kit hopefully we will go with deep scarlet red, black and yellow for a perth team if we get in, presuming it’s not the red and black of a bears club. A scarlet red like Atlanta falcons would be good.
 
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