WCW 1999-2000 v WWE 2017-18

[Big Pete]

Sure, here's Sanders Keel, an associate producer for the game being interviewed in NITRO - The Incredible Rise and Inevitable Collapse of Ted Turner's WCW.

"I was a big fan of Raven," continues Keel, who recalls pushing for his appearance on the game's cover. "He had a unique look and was a fresh face in WCW. It also [helped appeal] to some more of the hardcore fans that followed all the shows."

 

[Manurewa_Marlins]

The AKI games were popular Because of the game engine, rosters and features that gave it replayability...and later on the ability to customise (we saw a teensy bit of that with the costume edit in Revenge).

Raven was on the cover Because he was the head of a stable. The others were nWo, the Wolfpac and WCW (main eventers, midcarders, jobbers and cruisers) and the Japan-ports.

Edge would have been on the cover Because ladder matches were being included in No Mercy for the first time ever and they were being pumped heavily on TV at the time, as we all know.

Oh how I love these four games...still play em to this day!

 

[Big Pete]

Raven was on the cover Because he was the head of a stable. The others were nWo, the Wolfpac and WCW (main eventers, midcarders, jobbers and cruisers) and the Japan-ports.

I presumed that was the reason until the interview. Now I believe it was THQ who pushed for Raven to be heavily featured so AKI pushed further with the factions gimmick.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Sure, here's Sanders Keel, an associate producer for the game being interviewed in NITRO - The Incredible Rise and Inevitable Collapse of Ted Turner's WCW.

Yeh the key word here is ‘also’. Also implies that there were other reasons, so him appealing to some hardcore fans was but one of multiple reasons

 

[Big Pete]

Yeh the key word here is ‘also’. Also implies that there were other reasons, so him appealing to some hardcore fans was but one of multiple reasons

Such as him being a new character which I had already touched on.

However, his appeal to the hardcore demographic was one of the main reasons, which was my point all along.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Such as him being a new character which I had already touched on.

However, his appeal to the hardcore demographic was one of the main reasons, which was my point all along.

I mainly had an issue with you saying lower-mid card. Take that back and we’re square

 

[Big Pete]

I mainly had an issue with you saying lower-mid card. Take that back and we’re square

Why?

I'm not saying he sucks, all I said in the grand scheme of things, that's how his character functioned.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

Ok so who would you consider mid card and upper mid card at that time

 

[Big Pete]

Ok so who would you consider mid card and upper mid card at that time

The better question is, who would you?

Clearly we have different ideas. From my point of view, a lower mid-card act is somebody who fills a specific niche whether it's lucha libre, comedy, martial arts or hardcore. Inside that division, they maybe booked strong but there isn't a lot of upwards mobility.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

The better question is, who would you?

Clearly we have different ideas. From my point of view, a lower mid-card act is somebody who fills a specific niche whether it's lucha libre, comedy, martial arts or hardcore. Inside that division, they maybe booked strong but there isn't a lot of upwards mobility.

yeh na. so guys like nakamura, mysterio and rvd fit that description, and last time i checked they had won world titles.

raven was fighting ddp around the time he became world champion. hardly an example of someone with limited upwards mobility

so i'll ask again - you're the one putting a label on him, so tell me where he sits in your rankings vs mid carders and upper mid carders at the time

 

[Big Pete]

yeh na. so guys like nakamura, mysterio and rvd fit that description, and last time i checked they had won world titles.

No, I was thinking more Juventud Guerrera, The Cat, Glacier and Hak. Guys who were brought into fill a niche spot on the card and work that one style of match with similar performers.

raven was fighting ddp around the time he became world champion. hardly an example of someone with limited upwards mobility

If by around the time, you mean a year earlier, sure.

The program with DDP was without a doubt the highlight of Raven's run. However, that was a DDP idea and since he had stroke with the company he was able to elevate Raven. Once Raven was left to his own devices, he was booked in the lower mid-card working exclusively with The Flock. Then to round out the year he was on a losing streak.

By the end of 1998, WCW didn't like the character and wanted to re-invent it, which is why they went with that bizarre spoiled rich kid angle.

 

[The Vaulting Violinist]

No, I was thinking more Juventud Guerrera, The Cat, Glacier and Hak. Guys who were brought into fill a niche spot on the card and work that one style of match with similar performers.



If by around the time, you mean a year earlier, sure.

The program with DDP was without a doubt the highlight of Raven's run. However, that was a DDP idea and since he had stroke with the company he was able to elevate Raven. Once Raven was left to his own devices, he was booked in the lower mid-card working exclusively with The Flock. Then to round out the year he was on a losing streak.

By the end of 1998, WCW didn't like the character and wanted to re-invent it, which is why they went with that bizarre spoiled rich kid angle.

Ha, so excluding wrestlers that don’t fit your erroneous labels. Good one

You really do suffer from myopic thinking. We both know that around that time ddp was fighting hogan, Goldberg etc. So your telling me that he goes from fighting a lower mid card guy to hogan in PPV main events within 2-3 three months? lol, yeh ok

And you still didn’t answer my question about mid card examples. Guessing that doesn’t suit your oddly constructed narrative either? Look just admit you’re wrong and let’s move on. I’ll accept he might have been lower to mid card by the end but to say that label covers his wcw run in its entirety is just plain silly

 

[Big Pete]

Ha, so excluding wrestlers that don’t fit your erroneous labels. Good one

No, just clarifying who I was talking about. If you watched WCW around this time, you would know which wrestlers were put into a box and were usually one of the opening matches on the card.

So your telling me that he goes from fighting a lower mid card guy to hogan in PPV main events within 2-3 three months?

Yes, go back and watch the show and look at where Raven ended up after the feud.

You keep going back to DDP, as if it has anything to do with Raven. I've already explained that DDP & Raven were friends. Since DDP had stroke with the company, he could work with anybody he wanted to and thought he could work a good program with Raven. He was right, but it proved the high point of his career and afterwards Raven ended up where he did.

And you still didn’t answer my question about mid card examples.

In fairness, you didn't explain your definition of a lower mid-card which you seem to have a giant stick up your ass about.

This is how I believe WCW treated their card.

The Upper Mid-Card typically consists of guys who work the semi-main matches and occassionally work the main event matches but rarely win the big one. They're not given as much priority as main event talent and can float around the card. An example in WCW around the time of Starrcade 98 would be Bret Hart, Diamond Dallas Page, The Giant, Lex Luger, Curt Hennig and Scott Steiner.

The Mid-Card was similar but they're typically given less opportunities. When they are put together with main event talent, they're rarely portrayed on their level but in general they're treated like somebody. In WCW 98 it was typically by association so guys like Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Scott Norton, Konnan, Brian Adams, Steve McMichael, Stevie Ray etc. were your mid-card guys. There were also a few individual acts like Meng, Wrath and Jericho but that's usually how the show was formulated.

I’ll accept he might have been lower to mid card by the end but to say that label covers his wcw run in its entirety is just plain silly

I see it more as he was brought in for one run and when that was over he was relegated to the lower mid-card.