We will never win an NRL title until

[Iron Lion]

We will never win an NRL title until - We have a coach that has the balls to either drop Manu or play him in the forwards for 15 to 20min spells. Once again it wasnt just him who lost us the game but he played a huge part. His mistakes at this level are unacceptable and undoes the great work he does time and time again. His cult status keeps him on the wing.

Yes I know he is a protected species on here but he wouldnt get a start at many other NRL clubs on the wing.

And oh yeah, I hate Ivan Clearys guts for turning Matulino into a prop, could of been one of the best 2nd rowers we had seen from this country - bummer.

 

[JJ]

I thought Manu was excellent tbh... and has been for several weeks

 

[Campion]

excellent player but ain't a winger's arsehole. would transition him to the forwards but not sure if he knows how to defend

 

[Drzoidberg]

Manu was pretty shit. He was lucky manly was throwing the ball to him made him look better. Flanks were utter shit, over running plays, shoddy defensive reads.

Manu :roll:

 

[JJ]

maybe I got that wrong - but don't really want to watch it again...

he overran Nielsen once, and dropped that ball - but others also makes some howlers

 

[jamaman]

Manu wins us more than anybody Dickhead!

 

[Cold Roses]

I thought Manu was excellent tbh... and has been for several weeks

Manu was pretty shit. He was lucky manly was throwing the ball to him made him look better. Flanks were utter shit, over running plays, shoddy defensive reads.

Manu :roll:

You're both right. His work rate was, once again, incredible. He is more damaging at the hit up than most of our forwards.

His defensive reads have once again, become a problem. Is it a coincidence that he is paired up with Neilson again and all of a sudden things are going wrong on that side in defence?

He continues to make awful mistakes at absolutely crucial times of a game. That one today was unacceptable and robbed us of all our momentum.

 

[Campion]

He's always overrunning plays! He doesn't read the game like a winger should. You'll never see him do those crazy upside down sideways cartwheel put downs you see other wingers do these days. He doesn't have the 'winger sense' of the dimensions of the field. He'll always get the tries from jumping high or battering ram. I suppose if he's scoring tries it doesn't matter, but he's also a defensive liability. I just tend to agree with the topic started here. Once we get a 'proper' winger it'll transition us to playing 'proper' league, where we run plays creating overlaps. It'll define a 'smart warriors' rather than the cliche 'big dumb polynesian battering rams'.

 

[JJ]

You're both right. His work rate was, once again, incredible. He is more damaging at the hit up than most of our forwards.

His defensive reads have once again, become a problem. Is it a coincidence that he is paired up with Neilson again and all of a sudden things are going wrong on that side in defence?

He continues to make awful mistakes at absolutely crucial times of a game. That one today was unacceptable and robbed us of all our momentum.

It was a dumb one, but others that played well made similar mistakes - Tomkins had about 3 from memory... Mannering a few blunders...

Laumape back to centre, I think... but to be fair, Lyon and Matai are the most dangerous centres around, and not uncommon for edges to be cut up by them

 

[reykaine]

Hikus first try was the result of a sustained buildup on the left stretching our defence completely. Wasn't much Manu could do stop that one and pinpoint put down by Hiku which had class stamped all over it. Still don't know how the ball stays stuck to his fingers. He is like Inspector Gadget!

 

[Benek]

To be fair to Manu, Neilsen looked terrible. For a centre who's entire game is defensive, he's a pretty sh*t tackler. Puts Manu under pressure he doesn't need.

 

[attila_the_gorilla]

Manly don't have one single weakness in defence. The Warriors have a few, and not just Manu.
Apart from that, losing Johnson was big. Townsend was awful, the rest of the spine pretty useless.

 

[tangalife]

You'll never see him do those crazy upside down sideways cartwheel put downs you see other wingers do these days.

Does it really matter how a damn try is scored? Hurrell doesnt do that shit either, albeit not a winger, but the outcome is the same. Size/strength = No need to do a backflip to score a try.

 

[Blair]

Does it really matter how a damn try is scored? Hurrell doesnt do that shit either, albeit not a winger, but the outcome is the same. Size/strength = No need to do a backflip to score a try.

I recall Manu's try in the grand final, which got us back in the game, was a tight one in the corner. As you say, he didn't need to do cartwheels, he went the direct route.

He was nimble enough to plant the ball with one hand, avoiding the sideline and flag.

 

[Fufu Andronez]

Why does manu need to be dropped? When was the last time he has had a long patch of bad form? Without Manu we don't get out of our danger end at least 5 times today.

If we move Manu off the wing it will change our whole style of play and if it is a change that needs to be made, it has to be during the off season IMO. If he moves now who is going to be starting our sets in the way he does? Running it out of the corner on the 2nd tackle when we smother a grubber and no forwards are on side yet?

Cappy is a smart coach and will do what is required, I can't see reputation being a berries for him to make changes that are required.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

My honest opinion, at this stage in his career Manu is a speedy prop, he has bad hands, suspect under the high ball, slow to turn and chase, poor defensively and is just not up to par in the modern era. He makes bad reads every game, he's consistently too flat on attack however his hit-ups are phenomenal, better than our impact props so why not use him in the middle off the bench. In years gone by he would easily bust through a brick wall and score, back then he had the top end speed to finish long range tries but I think now the cons outweigh the pros as a winger. Put the number 17 on his back and let him be the game changer. In a game of inches these days wingers need to be able to do cartwheels to convert half chances. Let him finish the year on the wing, and then over the off season build him up a little and see what a real beast he could be if he didn't have to keep himself slim.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

The anti-Vatuvei hate machine always makes me laugh. Been strong for much of the year, much to the annoyance of some on here I'm sure :lol:.

 

[Warrior@Heart]

Vatuvei averages 12.6 runs and just over 1.5 errors per game, so about 1 error within every 8.4 carries. Close to the worst in the NRL, difference is players with similar error rates aren't on substantial contracts. According to a LeagueWeek article published earlier in the year the only who posted worse was Luke Burgess who had averaged an error once every 8 carries. Unsure whether some other players have blown out recently but Manu would be the most high profile error riddled player.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

Vatuvei averages 12.6 runs and just over 1.5 errors per game, so about 1 error within every 8.4 carries. Close to the worst in the NRL, difference is players with similar error rates aren't on substantial contracts. According to a LeagueWeek article published earlier in the year the only who posted worse was Luke Burgess who had averaged an error once every 8 carries. Unsure whether some other players have blown out recently but Manu would be the most high profile error riddled player.

No doubt about it. I'm sure there's a lot of quality players with similar error rates who make good money. No surprise to see Luke Burgess with similar stats, I'd bet his brother Sam and George have a similar error rate.

No excuse for his errors but some of the anti-Vatuvei sentiment whenever we lose a game is beyond hysterical. Are there better players out there? Without question. Could we do worse than Vatuvei? Easily. Vatuvei is a good attacking winger with sub-par defence and suspect handling, so are a lot of outside backs in the NRL. I'd have no qualms with him being replaced because there's better and more reliable players out there, but Vatuvei isn't the reason we're losing games or haven't won a title.

I just think some of the criticism of the bloke is a bit OTT and strange. Case in point, you cite that he's prone to errors but you then suggest moving him into the middle of the field and playing him off the bench, as if ignoring the fact that 95% of his errors come from him losing the ball in contact when taking a hit-up. If anything, his handling rate has gotten worse we've been using him as an extra forward.

 

[Iron Lion]

No doubt about it. I'm sure there's a lot of quality players with similar error rates who make good money. No surprise to see Luke Burgess with similar stats, I'd bet his brother Sam and George have a similar error rate.

No excuse for his errors but some of the anti-Vatuvei sentiment whenever we lose a game is beyond hysterical. Are there better players out there? Without question. Could we do worse than Vatuvei? Easily. Vatuvei is a good attacking winger with sub-par defence and suspect handling, so are a lot of outside backs in the NRL. I'd have no qualms with him being replaced because there's better and more reliable players out there, but Vatuvei isn't the reason we're losing games or haven't won a title.

I just think some of the criticism of the bloke is a bit OTT and strange. Case in point, you cite that he's prone to errors but you then suggest moving him into the middle of the field and playing him off the bench, as if ignoring the fact that 95% of his errors come from him losing the ball in contact when taking a hit-up. If anything, his handling rate has gotten worse we've been using him as an extra forward.

I have picked up no anti-Vatuvei bias in this post at all. Can you post where it is. Attitudes of victimisation is what will hold this club back, screw that lets call a spade a spade. Manu Vatuvei along with Konrad Hurrell could be the most important ball carrier in our team and without a doubt from inside our 20 but the truth is he isnt even an average winger anymore, I doubt anyother NRL club would play him on the wing now.

Manu doesnt even want to play on the wing from what I hear and continuing to play him there may even end up costing us a finals position also.

Manu is a prop, make him give us 2x20mins quality spells each week. He is a major liability of the wing now, id rather Jarrod Tua there at the moment if it got Manu into the pack.