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Pj,Rj,Hj

Juniors
Messages
179
Their attendances were good compared to most Sydney clubs, but were well behind the other expansion clubs from 1995.

My point is the Reds were never as popular as the Cowboys and Warriors.

Yet people think Perth 2.0 are going to be as big as the Broncos?

I will be highly surprised if Perth 2.0 is bigger than the Titans.
Ok, I can't say I've read any Perth contributor saying a Perth team would be as big as the Broncos.

I expect a Perth team to average around 16-18000 at HBF park, while having a very healthy membership uptake as that is what West Aussies are used to.
If the stadium is indeed upgraded to the 25-27000 mark, I expect crowds around 22000.
On the small chance that the demand continually outstrips supply, then I expect they'd be told to take the odd game to Optus Stadium. While also diversifying the seating options and price range rather than getting anymore seats added.

Revenue wise I don't see why a competitive Perth club can't match it with the likes of The Storm, though they won't be as valuable to television/ streaming
 
Messages
14,589
Ok, I can't say I've read any Perth contributor saying a Perth team would be as big as the Broncos.

I expect a Perth team to average around 16-18000 at HBF park, while having a very healthy membership uptake as that is what West Aussies are used to.
If the stadium is indeed upgraded to the 25-27000 mark, I expect crowds around 22000.
On the small chance that the demand continually outstrips supply, then I expect they'd be told to take the odd game to Optus Stadium. While also diversifying the seating options and price range rather than getting anymore seats added.

Revenue wise I don't see why a competitive Perth club can't match it with the likes of The Storm, though they won't be as valuable to television/ streaming
Are to you talking about their average after one season or 10?

They might average 16k in their first few seasons. Once the novelty wears off they'll be left without bandwagon support.

Do you think they'll average 16-20k in their fifth year?

That would place them in the top five clubs.

Do you really think Perth will have more active rugby league fans than the Gold Coast, Auckland, Melbourne, Newcastle, Canberra, Townsville and every Sydney club?

What happened to the Western Force's attendances when they moved to PRS and the novelty factor wore off?

Did they go up or down?
 

Pj,Rj,Hj

Juniors
Messages
179
I think they will have in the ballpark of 20000 in the medium and long term, as long as they are competitive and not basket cases like The Force.

Perth generally has strong attendances for their clubs. The Eagles may have the best median home average in the AFL. Freo average over 40000. Scorchers do well, Wildcats have long led the NBL (may have been recently overtaken by the Kings).

The Force crowds reflect not just almost 20 years failure on field (somewhat by design of RA distributions) but also the wider state of the game. Doesn't help they have a vague ineffective name in both geographically identifier and (lack of) mascot.
Related and most importantly is the visibility and connection to "Super Rugby". For starters it's a stupid Mickey mouse name for supposedly the world's premier provincial Rugby competition. It's a competition that's long been unstable in its overreach, and now if in a death spiral. Crowds have fallen across the Aussie teams. 20 years ago the Waratahs were Swans sized crowds.

Rugby Union may be bigger in Perth than Rugby League, but for domestic offerings, the NRL is daylight ahead of Super Rugby in the public perception of prestige, continuity, importance to Australia's cultural fabric. I believe that will be reflected in how Perth will take to a new club that's done it's homework correctly.
 
Messages
14,589
I think they will have in the ballpark of 20000 in the medium and long term, as long as they are competitive and not basket cases like The Force.

Perth generally has strong attendances for their clubs. The Eagles may have the best median home average in the AFL. Freo average over 40000. Scorchers do well, Wildcats have long led the NBL (may have been recently overtaken by the Kings).

The Force crowds reflect not just almost 20 years failure on field (somewhat by design of RA distributions) but also the wider state of the game. Doesn't help they have a vague ineffective name in both geographically identifier and (lack of) mascot.
Related and most importantly is the visibility and connection to "Super Rugby". For starters it's a stupid Mickey mouse name for supposedly the world's premier provincial Rugby competition. It's a competition that's long been unstable in its overreach, and now if in a death spiral. Crowds have fallen across the Aussie teams. 20 years ago the Waratahs were Swans sized crowds.

Rugby Union may be bigger in Perth than Rugby League, but for domestic offerings, the NRL is daylight ahead of Super Rugby in the public perception of prestige, continuity, importance to Australia's cultural fabric. I believe that will be reflected in how Perth will take to a new club that's done it's homework correctly.
Are sports teams in Perth well supported?

The Scorchers and Wildcats draw massive crowds. They've also been the most successful teams in the BBL and NBL.

On the other hand, the Force and Glory draw woeful crowds. They've also struggled over the last 20 years. Perth Glory drew better attendances in the NSL when they were the dominant team in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

The Eagles and Dockers are the oy teams that draw huge attendances, regardless of form. However, support for both clubs dropped somewhat when their onfield form hit rock bottom.

What we can take from this is form will impact how many Western Australians support a Perth-based NRL team. If it's a dud over several seasons then it will more likely than not struggle to draw 10-12k to its games.

Since 1997, at least five AwFuL clubs have drawn higher attendances than the Eagles.

IMG_0049.jpeg

The key detail is over that time the three lowest drawing clubs have been the Brisbane Lions, Gold Coast Suns and GWS Giants. Despite the money thrown at development in Brisbane and Sydney, it's produced mediocre gains.

 

shewi6

Juniors
Messages
580
I think they will have in the ballpark of 20000 in the medium and long term, as long as they are competitive and not basket cases like The Force.

Perth generally has strong attendances for their clubs. The Eagles may have the best median home average in the AFL. Freo average over 40000. Scorchers do well, Wildcats have long led the NBL (may have been recently overtaken by the Kings).

The Force crowds reflect not just almost 20 years failure on field (somewhat by design of RA distributions) but also the wider state of the game. Doesn't help they have a vague ineffective name in both geographically identifier and (lack of) mascot.
Related and most importantly is the visibility and connection to "Super Rugby". For starters it's a stupid Mickey mouse name for supposedly the world's premier provincial Rugby competition. It's a competition that's long been unstable in its overreach, and now if in a death spiral. Crowds have fallen across the Aussie teams. 20 years ago the Waratahs were Swans sized crowds.

Rugby Union may be bigger in Perth than Rugby League, but for domestic offerings, the NRL is daylight ahead of Super Rugby in the public perception of prestige, continuity, importance to Australia's cultural fabric. I believe that will be reflected in how Perth will take to a new club that's done it's homework correctly.
You make great points but you're talking to a brick wall who just found out form influences crowd numbers...
 
Messages
14,589
You make great points but you're talking to a brick wall...
Great points?

I refuted every claim you and him made.

I've looked into the levels of support for sports teams in Perth. I've also combed over TV ratings.

Contrary to the bullshit posted on this forum about the wonders of Perth, there's nothing special about it.

Western Australians support local clubs when they're as dominant as the Storm. When they struggle like the Suns they turn away in droves.

Despite all the shit you've said about RL being huge in Perth, the fact remains that NBL generates more interest amongst Western Australians.

Just 8k people TV viewers watch NRL games in Perth.

Just 4.1k people in Western Australia play RL.
 

shewi6

Juniors
Messages
580
Sure u did.
So what ur telling me is that a sports club that currently exists in perth is more popular than a club that doesn't exist yet? Major discovery there mate!

And this nbl can draw 60k to a game like they do for rugby league?
Surely they can do that for a one off if it is so popular, of course it means nothing for the viability of an nrl team, somehow...
 
Messages
14,589
Sure u did.
So what ur telling me is that a sports club that currently exists in perth is more popular than a club that doesn't exist yet? Major discovery there mate!

And this nbl can draw 60k to a game like they do for rugby league?
Surely they can do that for a one off if it is so popular, of course it means nothing for the viability of an nrl team, somehow...

Why are you conflating 59k at an Origin game in Perth Stadium -- many of whom were tourists -- with a prospective NRL club's viability?

A Bledisloe Cup game in Perth drew 60k!

Is hasn't translated into the Western Force drawing massive crowds, has it?

I'm told to ignore the Western Force's poor attendances because RU is a niche sport in Australia.

Basketball is a minority sport in Australia. It still has a larger profile in Perth than rugby league and rugby union.
 

shewi6

Juniors
Messages
580
Why are you conflating 59k at an Origin game in Perth Stadium -- many of whom were tourists -- with a prospective NRL club's viability?

A Bledisloe Cup game in Perth drew 60k!

Is hasn't translated into the Western Force drawing massive crowds, has it?

I'm told to ignore the Western Force's poor attendances because RU is a niche sport in Australia.

Basketball is a minority sport in Australia. It still has a larger profile in Perth than rugby league and rugby union.
Because we know only 15k came from outside WA meaning 45k were locals.
Just like the 40k locals that attended both double headers and the multiple sold out so called one off crowds. A 16k averags for games played there in a stadium that only held 16k when games were first taken there and now at 20k capacity.

You say one off games don't count for a season long average but they are the only evidence there is and that evidence is positive and shows the support is there. They can only attend the games they get and they do.

You and I can not say if they will or won't work out, but only guess.
My guess taking into account the recent history is that they will and I doubt I will be wrong. No skin off my back either way.

Fact is perth is a big wealthy market with serious government support and proven history of playing the game and attending matches.
A group of monkeys could run a successful perth club with all that behind them.
 

Vlad59

Bench
Messages
2,750
Because we know only 15k came from outside WA meaning 45k were locals.
Just like the 40k locals that attended both double headers and the multiple sold out so called one off crowds. A 16k averags for games played there in a stadium that only held 16k when games were first taken there and now at 20k capacity.

You say one off games don't count for a season long average but they are the only evidence there is and that evidence is positive and shows the support is there. They can only attend the games they get and they do.

You and I can not say if they will or won't work out, but only guess.
My guess taking into account the recent history is that they will and I doubt I will be wrong. No skin off my back either way.

Fact is perth is a big wealthy market with serious government support and proven history of playing the game and attending matches.
A group of monkeys could run a successful perth club with all that behind them.
I wish you well discussing anything with this lad. Perth is a no brainer mate. GROTD has no brains. This is the dilemma.
 
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