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What do you think we need to win a premiership??

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,833
Unless Robinson or Bellamy wants to come to parra, we have the best coach available for us. That’s not happening.
.

Robinson gets good players but apart from that he is really no better than the other second tier coaches (Arthur, Bennett etc). Bellamy is in a league of his own.
The NRL system (16 clubs effectively running every level of the game) does not produce good coaches.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,833
Is there any reason to think our junior system will start producing good first graders? It hasn’t happened in the last 30 years so what is going to change? Do we just get in the guys who made Penrith good? Gould?
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
I think @Eelementary is spot on. This has been bugging me more or less since Brian Smith left. Our defense is so meek at times that the opposition is encouraged to inherit the game. Sorry bad joke.

Anyway, our middles are constantly not putting enough pressure on the ball carrier which then allows the opposition to play unmolested and fast(we don't cut down their time) to the outside. Once a team gets that right against us and we don't get the hint, we are in trouble. Our outside men are then put under all sorts of pressure and they start to try to solve it on their own with varying degrees of success depending on the quality and speed of the opposing team. Faster outside backs will obviously help, but not entirely against great thinking and executing play makers, who will always play patient and create the desired scenario, by fatiguing our middles enough for the laziness to set in.

This also shows in our ruck and play the balls. I'm sure if we checked the stats we would have one of the slowest play the balls out of the better teams, if not the slowest. Our passive defense and wrestle allows them to play the ball quicker then we can set ourselves in defense so often. On the other side of the ball, we don't even fight in the tackle to get up quicker or sway the ref to give us a 6 again.

BA always wants us to chase the collision, but I don't think the players get that it should also apply in defense. It almost seems to me that they try to take it a little easier in defense to put more effort in attack. Well that doesn't work against the top sides. They are obviously coached to just wait in defense so no one comes shooting out of the line, but they are losing the collision by doing that. The Roosters, Storm and Panthers don't wait, they come at you and in a line. Then when they have the ball, they are always in motion and don't have to many one out plays like us, especially the Panthers.

I feel that we have a really good team(albeit a little slow) but tend to play very stiff and constrained for much of the game. I don't get it, individually they are very talented players, but collectively, they just don't seem to gel against good teams. In attack, when in good ball, we seem like strangers.

Now what or who is to blame for all this, well I won't speculate, because it would be a guess since I am not on the inside, but whatever or whoever is the reason for these deficiencies it needs to be fixed or we will never be good enough to win a premiership and just making up the numbers at the pointy side of the season.
 

Hindmarshisgod2

Juniors
Messages
472
I thought you liked BA?
I like the guy actually. I was so happy for him and his son 2 weeks ago. He seems like a genuine down to earth guy quite like myself.

But the guy is NOT a coach. How he landed this gig, and stayed for as long as he has, is unbelievable.
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,546
Is there any reason to think our junior system will start producing good first graders? It hasn’t happened in the last 30 years so what is going to change? Do we just get in the guys who made Penrith good? Gould?
Im of the belief that the players are there. Always have been. It's how we bring them through and how they are coached that makes the difference. Given our ongoing defensive deficiencies and limited attack, a scary thought for me is that we are adopting a one club approach where we want all levels of players and coaches adopting the identical structures and strategies.
Do we as a club coach the skill out of players?
Who knows but maybe food for thought.
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
Im of the belief that the players are there. Always have been. It's how we bring them through and how they are coached that makes the difference. Given our ongoing defensive deficiencies and limited attack, a scary thought for me is that we are adopting a one club approach where we want all levels of players and coaches adopting the identical structures and strategies.
Do we as a club coach the skill out of players?
Who knows but maybe food for thought.

Well that is what you want so as all the players coming through are proficient and ready to play NRL if and when called upon. You don't want players coming through that have then got to lean how to play how the NRL team is playing.

The problem though, if there is a problem, is are our structures and strategies quality and success building one?

It doesn't look like it from the outside.
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,546
Well that is what you want so as all the players coming through are proficient and ready to play NRL if and when called upon. You don't want players coming through that have then got to lean how to play how the NRL team is playing.

The problem though, if there is a problem, is are our structures and strategies quality and success building one?

It doesn't look like it from the outside.
My point exactly.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
53,194
We need more fans that shit the bed after a loss, more fans that won't accept the mediocracy of 9 and 2 at the midway point of the season, and more fans that know deep in their heart of hearts that being in the top four consistently over the past 30 odd games is a sign of extreme mental weakness.

Our current bunch of fans have been good, but they simply don't have what it takes to go to the next level.

Umm, actually, we are 9 and 3, so...

:p
 

T.S Quint

Coach
Messages
11,191
I like the guy actually. I was so happy for him and his son 2 weeks ago. He seems like a genuine down to earth guy quite like myself.

But the guy is NOT a coach. How he landed this gig, and stayed for as long as he has, is unbelievable.

You’re kidding right?
How is he not a coach? He’s built a good team and had them in the top 8 more often than not. He’s had success with lower grades, proven himself as an assistant and pulled a woeful team up from the bottom to the top in first grade.

He may not be the best coach, but he has proven himself to be a decent first grade coach. What you are saying is just rubbish.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,833
Im of the belief that the players are there. Always have been. It's how we bring them through and how they are coached that makes the difference. Given our ongoing defensive deficiencies and limited attack, a scary thought for me is that we are adopting a one club approach where we want all levels of players and coaches adopting the identical structures and strategies.
Do we as a club coach the skill out of players?
Who knows but maybe food for thought.

True. It is a concern that the head coach is on record as saying he isnt worried about poor attack and the players themselves say they dont spend much time practicing attack.
If the first grade coach has this attitude is the philosophy right througout the club down to HMs?
I would straight up fire a coach who said that. It is f**king half the game and the main reason people are interested in the game.
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
We need more fans that shit the bed after a loss, more fans that won't accept the mediocracy of 9 and 2 at the midway point of the season, and more fans that know deep in their heart of hearts that being in the top four consistently over the past 30 odd games is a sign of extreme mental weakness.

Our current bunch of fans have been good, but they simply don't have what it takes to go to the next level.

Who's shitting the bed mate. Oh that's right the players are. Totally shit themselves when any team with a bit of mongrel and intent comes at them, they go to shit. Maybe they should go to wearing nappy's against those teams.
 
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TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
You’re kidding right?
How is he not a coach? He’s built a good team and had them in the top 8 more often than not. He’s had success with lower grades, proven himself as an assistant and pulled a woeful team up from the bottom to the top in first grade.

He may not be the best coach, but he has proven himself to be a decent first grade coach. What you are saying is just rubbish.

I agree with all of this, but I also think that he should be given better assistants around him. He may like the guys that he has at the moment, but I don't think it is working. We are seeing the same types of issues slowly manifesting themselves again this season.

Same weakness in defense and to a lesser degree in offense. Whether he likes it or not, he is to loyal to his staff, so I would take it out of his hands and give him a tight list of 2 or 3 defense and offense assistant coaches and ask him to pick. Or tell him that it is happening, so he can make a suggestion and if the Recruitment team agree, they go for his choices. I wouldn't mind Paul Green as our Offensive coach. I think he did a stellar job when he was that at the Roosters.

But BA definitely needs to change something in the way we play. New blood and new idea generally beings about fresh and hopefully better outcomes.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
30,247
Who's shitting the bed mate. Oh that's right the players are. Totally shit themselves when any team with a bit of mongrel and intent comes at them, they go to shit. Maybe they should go to wearing nappy's against those teams.

Like they did against the Storm or the Roosters?

Oh yeah, that's right, they had excuses for loosing, it was wet, ohhh, they were missing guys, etc. etc.

Funny how excuses always seem acceptable when we win eh?
 

Incorrect

First Grade
Messages
7,784
Does anybody think that at our best we are any chance of getting near the Storm or Panthers at their best? I don't. I think there's 14 teams in the comp that would be lucky to get within 18 points of those 2 teams on a good day
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
Like they did against the Storm or the Roosters?

Oh yeah, that's right, they had excuses for loosing, it was wet, ohhh, they were missing guys, etc. etc.

Funny how excuses always seem acceptable when we win eh?


Because we rarely ever win when we play those two teams when they are at full strength and on a dry track. Which come semis time will probably be the case again. Maybe not the Roosters this season though. But if we play a fully fit Panthers, Storm, Manly or Souths, on a dry day, then good luck us beating any of them with the way we play the game. We may jag a first up win if our forwards played out of their skins, but to back it up against any of those top sides if they are fit, extremely doubtful on the previous and current showing.

It just takes to much out of us and we can't back it up. Is it a mental or physical thing. I tend to think it is a mental and coaching thing.

But our results are very ordinary against healthy strong sides. Fact. Or can you show me that I am wrong?
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
12,833
Does anybody think that at our best we are any chance of getting near the Storm or Panthers at their best? I don't. I think there's 14 teams in the comp that would be lucky to get within 18 points of those 2 teams on a good day

Agreed. A team apart from those 2 could concievably win the comp (eg, Souths, Manly or Roosters) but it isnt going to be Parra.
I would be building for next season. Eg, trying to find the right position for Dylan Brown when he comes back. I'd think about Brown at centre.
 
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