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What do you think we need to win a premiership??

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
Does anybody think that at our best we are any chance of getting near the Storm or Panthers at their best? I don't. I think there's 14 teams in the comp that would be lucky to get within 18 points of those 2 teams on a good day

I think we have the measure of the Storm if we were coached better. Not sure about the Panthers. They just seem to be way better then all the rest and coached brilliantly. I wish we were coached in the same manner.

I have always said, I think that Cleary is an elite coach, I know that many don't rate or like him, but for mine his teams always play with purpose(once he adjusts the roster to his liking) and each player knows his role and executes it well both on and off the ball. All he has to do now is win a premiership or two to finally stake his claim as one of the best in the business.

It has only taken him much longer then it should have because all of the coaching gigs he has had were taking over teams that needed to be rebuilt and then he left(sometimes his decision, sometimes not) before he could reap the fruits of his labour. Gould's ego put a pause on proceedings the first time around at the Panthers, but this time he will see the job through.

It will not surprise anyone if he ends up winning 3 or 4 Premierships with this club over the next 10 years or so. Great development systems, top line coach, and a roster that is young and will just add fresh blood here and there when needed as they come through.

We could learn a lesson or two from them development wise that is for sure. But we won't because we think we are doing fine just like you do.

P.S. I love that we have now become a top 8 team, maybe even a top 4 team again this year, but blind Freddy can see that there is a chasm between us and the top 2-3 sides in the comp when they are at full strength. We need to Identify what we are doing or not doing that those teams are to go to the next level and actually have a realistic chance of beating them regularly not on just the odd occasion here and there. It isn't because we don't have a quality roster where it counts, the spine. We just have a speed issue out wide, but that isn't why we miss our assignments in the middle.

The players in the middle are to die for, so why are they losing the ruck and collision in defense? These question needs to be answered and resolved. If the coaching staff can't solve it by seasons end, then changes must happen. Would Bellamy, Bennett or Robinson, season after season, put up with timid defense in the middle? I don't think so. They would move heaven and earth to bring in the right personnel, if they couldn't solve it themselves, to fix it. Of that you can bank on.
 

Gazzamatta

First Grade
Messages
8,546
I think we have the measure of the Storm if we were coached better. Not sure about the Panthers. They just seem to be way better then all the rest and coached brilliantly. I wish we were coached in the same manner.

I have always said, I think that Cleary is an elite coach, I know that many don't rate or like him, but for mine his teams always play with purpose(once he adjusts the roster to his liking) and each player knows his role and executes it well both on and off the ball. All he has to do now is win a premiership or two to finally stake his claim as one of the best in the business.

It has only taken him much longer then it should have because all of the coaching gigs he has had were taking over teams that needed to be rebuilt and then he left(sometimes his decision, sometimes not) before he could reap the fruits of his labour. Gould's ego put a pause on proceedings the first time around at the Panthers, but this time he will see the job through.

It will not surprise anyone if he ends up winning 3 or 4 Premierships with this club over the next 10 years or so. Great development systems, top line coach, and a roster that is young and will just add fresh blood here and there when needed as they come through.

We could learn a lesson or two from them development wise that is for sure. But we won't because we think we are doing fine just like you do.

P.S. I love that we have now become a top 8 team, maybe even a top 4 team again this year, but blind Freddy can see that there is a chasm between us and the top 2-3 sides in the comp when they are at full strength. We need to Identify what we are doing or not doing that those teams are to go to the next level and actually have a realistic chance of beating them regularly not on just the odd occasion here and there. It isn't because we don't have a quality roster where it counts, the spine. We just have a speed issue out wide, but that isn't why we miss our assignments in the middle.

The players in the middle are to die for, so why are they losing the ruck and collision in defense? These question needs to be answered and resolved. If the coaching staff can't solve it by seasons end, then changes must happen. Would Bellamy, Bennett or Robinson, season after season, put up with timid defense in the middle? I don't think so. They would move heaven and earth to bring in the right personnel, if they couldn't solve it themselves, to fix it. Of that you can bank on.
Not sure where it was but there was an article recently that spoke of the process the club applied to "blow up" their defensive systems and totally start again with schoolboy basics. This is when Ciraldo was installed as their defensive coach. Hard to argue that it was required and that the realisation and effort to undertake such a mammoth task has paid dividends. They are to be admired. I believe this occurred post Goulds tenure.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
30,247
Because we rarely ever win when we play those two teams when they are at full strength and on a dry track. Which come semis time will probably be the case again. Maybe not the Roosters this season though. But if we play a fully fit Panthers, Storm, Manly or Souths, on a dry day, then good luck us beating any of them with the way we play the game. We may jag a first up win if our forwards played out of their skins, but to back it up against any of those top sides if they are fit, extremely doubtful on the previous and current showing.

It just takes to much out of us and we can't back it up. Is it a mental or physical thing. I tend to think it is a mental and coaching thing.

But our results are very ordinary against healthy strong sides. Fact. Or can you show me that I am wrong?

Conversely show me all the times these teams have beaten us when we have played at our best?

Our problem is not that we aren't good enough to match it with the best, our problem is we lack consistency, that's what separates us from the likes of the Panthers and Storm this year, if we can somehow find that ingredient, then we're in with a shot.
 

Incorrect

First Grade
Messages
7,784
Conversely show me all the times these teams have beaten us when we have played at our best?

Our problem is not that we aren't good enough to match it with the best, our problem is we lack consistency, that's what separates us from the likes of the Panthers and Storm this year, if we can somehow find that ingredient, then we're in with a shot.
We have consistently failed to show up in the big games in the post home and away season fixtures. A solid performance (but a loss all the same) v the Storm in 2017 and a 58-nil win against the Broncos who have since been about as bad a team as you'll get in the modern era along with Dogs. All other Finals performances have been consistently submissive and lacking in application and backbone IMO. I don't blame BA, it just feels like a part of the clubs DNA
 

Kornstar

Coach
Messages
15,504
We have consistently failed to show up in the big games in the post home and away season fixtures. A solid performance (but a loss all the same) v the Storm in 2017 and a 58-nil win against the Broncos who have since been about as bad a team as you'll get in the modern era along with Dogs. All other Finals performances have been consistently submissive and lacking in application and backbone IMO. I don't blame BA, it just feels like a part of the clubs DNA

I have been a long time believer that there is something within the culture of the club that accepts those types of performances. I don't think you can blame one single person and that time of deep seated culture is very hard to change.

The Dragons needed one of the greatest coaches ever to break their culture and Souths bought Hollywood in to change the culture and both achieved it.

With great respect to BA, he is neither the greatest coach or Hollywood but imo has done a very good job in a lot of areas bar the end of season choke and i am not sure he will be able to.

To change it you need a force that is ridiculously strong and motivating........likening it to the NFL, Brady made that change in one season at the Bucs because his standing in the game and the command on a team he has. Cameron Smith would have had the same influence i think if he went somewhere else, just like Cronk did when he went to the Roosters imo.
 

Incorrect

First Grade
Messages
7,784
I have been a long time believer that there is something within the culture of the club that accepts those types of performances. I don't think you can blame one single person and that time of deep seated culture is very hard to change.

The Dragons needed one of the greatest coaches ever to break their culture and Souths bought Hollywood in to change the culture and both achieved it.

With great respect to BA, he is neither the greatest coach or Hollywood but imo has done a very good job in a lot of areas bar the end of season choke and i am not sure he will be able to.

To change it you need a force that is ridiculously strong and motivating........likening it to the NFL, Brady made that change in one season at the Bucs because his standing in the game and the command on a team he has. Cameron Smith would have had the same influence i think if he went somewhere else, just like Cronk did when he went to the Roosters imo.
It sounds ridiculous and there's no basis for it in the face of reality because we're talking about completely different players, staff and administration, but the 1998 prelim and 2001 GF capitulations seem to have almost left a subconscious apprehension/inability to succeed on the organisation.

You speak of Wayne Bennett and how the Dragons brought him to the club to take that next step. And from all reports, if there is to be a 2nd Brisbane team, Wayne is likely to be one of the first signings the club makes in a coaching director capacity (if they can't get Bellamy). Why aren't we looking to bring him in as a coaching director to work with Brad? This would be an ideal scenario, BA wouldn't need to worry about Bennett craving his job, it seems like Bennett no longer seeks that head coaching job long term.

I never thought I'd be a proponent for bringing Bennett to the club but it's clear that we need something beyond what we have in our ranks and the greatest premiership winning coach in the history of the game is without a gig for 2022. Why not roll the dice?
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
Conversely show me all the times these teams have beaten us when we have played at our best?

Our problem is not that we aren't good enough to match it with the best, our problem is we lack consistency, that's what separates us from the likes of the Panthers and Storm this year, if we can somehow find that ingredient, then we're in with a shot.

Yes, der.

But why? We have a pack and spine that is as good as the others. Panthers being at present the yardstick, but they too could be beaten by us if we could unlock that something that at present is alluding us. Why are we inconsistent. It isn't because we don't have the individual player quality. But as a team we just can't find the consistent polish to our game defensively or offensively that the other 3 top teams have mastered.

Like I said, it is a mental thing that the coaching staff have yet to resolve. That and our game plan/style of play is my opinion that needs to be tweaked/fixed.
 

Gary Gutful

Immortal
Messages
42,445
I'm confused. Are we fine and just need more consistency or is our best not good enough? A few people in here are having an each way bet.
 

Incorrect

First Grade
Messages
7,784
I'm confused. Are we fine and just need more consistency or is our best not good enough? A few people in here are having an each way bet.
FTR, I don't think our best is good enough to beat the Storm or Penrith at their best. Our best is possibly good enough if you caught those 2 teams on an off day, kinda like the Panthers were in the GF last year....
 

TheRam

First Grade
Messages
9,965
We have consistently failed to show up in the big games in the post home and away season fixtures. A solid performance (but a loss all the same) v the Storm in 2017 and a 58-nil win against the Broncos who have since been about as bad a team as you'll get in the modern era along with Dogs. All other Finals performances have been consistently submissive and lacking in application and backbone IMO. I don't blame BA, it just feels like a part of the clubs DNA

I agree with this, except the last line. The coach has to wear at least some of the blame if it keeps happening and not only in the finals but during the season proper games too when a team slows us down and stands offside, we just don't know how to combat that at all. We get owned to easily and our middle defenders go missing from doing the hard work. Strong wrestle and in their face defense to intimidate the playmakers and runners. We just go all school girl jelly legs out there and basically just watch them do their thing.

Teams love playing us in the big games. We make any team that wants to play hard and fast look like champions. They probably make a team pact to rest their voices the night before cos they know that they will be singing their team song in their shed after the game.
 

Bandwagon

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
30,247
Yes, der.

But why? .

Likely because over a decade of being also rans doesn't help to form the habit of winning, and you don't change that overnight. Not lasting results anyhows.

Consistency breeds more consistency, shit just breeds more shit.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
53,194
I'm confused. Are we fine and just need more consistency or is our best not good enough? A few people in here are having an each way bet.

I am probably in the minority, but I truly believe that at our absolute best, we cab beat any team, on any given day.

But I have concerns about the coaching staff's ability to unlock this, and our playing router's ability to implement it.

I honestly think we need a few tweaks, here and there; I'm not one of the people convinced that we need wholesale changes.
 
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