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What's the deal with France?

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
I feel like I'm missing something here...

France has a professional team, with a possibility of another within a few years.
They have a well supported semi pro competition.
Their player registration numbers dwarf those of their non-English European counterparts.

What have they got to show for this? Where is their success?
 

Rodney

Juniors
Messages
243
They barely play the top 3 outside big tournaments.
We used to beat NZ by 50, but they've been conditioned through years and years of matches.
Once England start playing them more often I expect they'll sharpen up.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
oh...ok....erm...


crap aussies taking the place of frenchmen at catalan....like leon pryce...oh..wait a minute...

seriously though what do you expect when they employ the likes of bobby goulding and richard agar as national coach??
 

deluded pom?

Coach
Messages
10,897
I feel like I'm missing something here...

France has a professional team, with a possibility of another within a few years.
They have a well supported semi pro competition.
Their player registration numbers dwarf those of their non-English European counterparts.

What have they got to show for this? Where is their success?

Unfortunately the theory that the admittance of CD into the SL would strengthen the French national team hasn't worked out as well as expected. Understandably CD don't want their French international players playing too many games and none of them played in the EC. Thus they failed to qualify for the 4N which, with all players available, you'd like to think should have been a formality.
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
Unfortunately the theory that the admittance of CD into the SL would strengthen the French national team hasn't worked out as well as expected. Understandably CD don't want their French international players playing too many games and none of them played in the EC. Thus they failed to qualify for the 4N which, with all players available, you'd like to think should have been a formality.

What was the justification for that?
Seems backwards....
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
(a) the semi-pro comp is not that well supported and several of the clubs live from year to year as going prospects
(b) any decent league talent will likely at least be tempted to switch to union as there is obviously a big difference in money available and fame to be had
(c) the ffr13 is poorly run
(d) it is a similar situation to NZ in the past, but unlike NZ the French don't have bucket loads of players in the ESL, the RFL are generally apathetic to french causes, and they have some reason to be so given their own circumstances. If the RFL was as healthy as the NRL, this would probably be different.
(e) the french youth sides generally do very well against more fancied english and australian counterparts.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
France have a full-time player pool of about 20, and many of those aren't regular first-choice players at first grade. That obviously isn't anywhere enough to compete with nations like Australia, NZ and England, they would probably need to double it at least to compete on a regular basis.

As for the players being 'lazy', that's a stupid comment, most of them have played without a proper off-season since about 2006 or whenever they broke into the Dragons first-team. They probably felt that they could win the European Cup and afford to rest some players, and TBH they would've won quite comfortably if it wasn't for an inexplicably bad performance against Ireland.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
I feel like I'm missing something here...

France has a professional team, with a possibility of another within a few years.
They have a well supported semi pro competition.
Their player registration numbers dwarf those of their non-English European counterparts.

What have they got to show for this? Where is their success?

Didn't you hear State of Origin is to blame for all the World's problems
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
France have a full-time player pool of about 20, and many of those aren't regular first-choice players at first grade. That obviously isn't anywhere enough to compete with nations like Australia, NZ and England, they would probably need to double it at least to compete on a regular basis.

As for the players being 'lazy', that's a stupid comment, most of them have played without a proper off-season since about 2006 or whenever they broke into the Dragons first-team. They probably felt that they could win the European Cup and afford to rest some players, and TBH they would've won quite comfortably if it wasn't for an inexplicably bad performance against Ireland.

Serious Question why haven't more kicked on? They beat Aust schoolboys a few years ago. They need regular tests against England. Hopefully the mid year test takes off. Even without Catalans players they can develop and be taken by other ESL and improve the standard
 

miguel de cervantes

First Grade
Messages
7,469
Pathways into the ESL is definitely something that could be developed, but that depends more on English clubs than anything else, and they would probably take Australians over young Frenchmen. The pathways into semi-pro union and possibly Top14 are obviously much more lucritive and established.

The France-England test has existed before, I have trouble believing why either nation will take it anymore seriously than last time.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Serious Question why haven't more kicked on? They beat Aust schoolboys a few years ago. They need regular tests against England. Hopefully the mid year test takes off. Even without Catalans players they can develop and be taken by other ESL and improve the standard
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is just a lack of opportunities for players. There are only so many places at Catalans, and so the choice for young players is either to stay there and hope for an opportunity at some point or take the initiative to try and move to an English club, which again is really just a shot in the dark. English clubs are insular enough as it is and the thing is that French players are unproven compared to NRL imports or even English players from lower divisions who represent more of a known quantity and don't have the language barrier etc. For French players to make it with English clubs they would either have to be established performers at Catalans, or be willing to leave home and pay their own way to move to a different country with a different language at age 17/18, and then spend a couple of years playing in the junior grades for virtually no money on the small chance that they might get a full time contract at the end of it. The odds are just stacked against them at the moment.

Player drain to Union has been mentioned but it isn't really that much of a problem TBH, I can't really think of any top prospects that have left the sport since Estebanez about 10 years ago. Most of the junior players just end up fading away because they really have nowhere to go. More French players have been signed by English clubs recently so it's starting to become less of a rarity but it will still take time until they are considered a true viable option by English coaches. France would be much, much stronger for a second Super League club giving a full-time pathway for twice as many players, it isn't like the NRL where there are large numbers of NZ/Pacific expats already living in Australia.
 

franklin2323

Immortal
Messages
33,546
Honestly, I think the biggest problem is just a lack of opportunities for players. There are only so many places at Catalans, and so the choice for young players is either to stay there and hope for an opportunity at some point or take the initiative to try and move to an English club, which again is really just a shot in the dark. English clubs are insular enough as it is and the thing is that French players are unproven compared to NRL imports or even English players from lower divisions who represent more of a known quantity and don't have the language barrier etc. For French players to make it with English clubs they would either have to be established performers at Catalans, or be willing to leave home and pay their own way to move to a different country with a different language at age 17/18, and then spend a couple of years playing in the junior grades for virtually no money on the small chance that they might get a full time contract at the end of it. The odds are just stacked against them at the moment.

Player drain to Union has been mentioned but it isn't really that much of a problem TBH, I can't really think of any top prospects that have left the sport since Estebanez about 10 years ago. Most of the junior players just end up fading away because they really have nowhere to go. More French players have been signed by English clubs recently so it's starting to become less of a rarity but it will still take time until they are considered a true viable option by English coaches. France would be much, much stronger for a second Super League club giving a full-time pathway for twice as many players, it isn't like the NRL where there are large numbers of NZ/Pacific expats already living in Australia.

I rate France's local comp over NZ. They too only have Warriors then a huge drop down yet are a clear 2nd in the world. Granted they do have a few Australian born players but regardless. The key players are NZ born hopefully the rise in International footy we are seeing. Gets these players to stay in RL and improving.
 

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