who is the junior?

[watatank]

Agreed Godz. Short sightedness is a consistent theme in a lot of the decision making.

I mean, why let Damien Cook go? While I strongly disagreed with King being released, I can at least see the salary cap side of that. But how much more would the Dogs have conceivably offered Cook, and how much cap space would we really have saved by not keeping him. Peanuts. And he's a guy who is excellent back up at hooker and other positions...and now we have Kyle Stanley ready to play dummy half off the bench. Just poor.

On top of that, we still don't have the backrower/dummy half forward utility that pretty much every club in the comp has in their squad. So it all comes down to Mitch Rein (solid at best), Crag Garvey (who needs at least another year before becoming experienced enough) and Kyle Stanley somehow playing dummy half...not a great outcome.

I think the club expected Cook to stay after they let King go, they actually talk about giving Cook more opportunities in the article where King was released.(link)

So it looks like the Bulldogs snuck under our guard which made it all pointless. More money and there's opportunity for Cook, even allowing for King leaving, he can be in their 17 every week and fullback spot is wide open so there's that. Can't blame Cook for taking that offer. As for the club, WTF?

Now we're stuck and have to have Kyle train there just to cover our bases in that position. Terrible.

 

[BennyV]

I think the club expected Cook to stay after they let King go, they actually talk about giving Cook more opportunities in the article where King was released.(link)

So it looks like the Bulldogs snuck under our guard which made it all pointless. More money and there's opportunity for Cook, even allowing for King leaving, he can be in their 17 every week and fullback spot is wide open so there's that. Can't blame Cook for taking that offer. As for the club, WTF?

Now we're stuck and have to have Kyle train there just to cover our bases in that position. Terrible.

Was actually chatting to a relative of Cook with whom I work....apparently one of our new recruitment officers came back from a holiday with the intention of re-signing Cook asap, and was shocked to find wed let him go. Cant remember the name of said recruitment guy but hed worked with Damo in the juniors and was a big fan...

Meanwhile, Damien said he was astonished in how far ahead of us the dogs were when it comes to training facilities and professionalism (although we have a better culture amongst the team). He also found Price difficult to deal with, but apparently Mary wasn't too bad. But Cooks been a dragon's fan his whole life and wanted to play here...

 

[hardbaby]

Look you do make some valid points e.g. square peg, round hole (pretty much sums up Price's coaching style really). Others much less so e.g. suggesting moving Dugan to the halves to cover injury is a bit weird. Also re height, Stanley is only 5' 11'. He is closer to a hooker like Luke in height than he is to a five eight like Sutton and a similar body type. He is also faster than Luke.

Regardless, I do think you will surprised by how well Style goes at hooker. It should suit him. It enables him to play limited minutes and rebuild his body and confidence in the early part of a season (similar to bringing Pattinson back in the one dayers rather than rush him into the test side). His utility value is a massive bonus. And we may actually be able to stick a round peg in a round hole when the coach actually works out what position best suits him. I don't think Price actually knows.

 

[hardbaby]

More money and there's opportunity for Cook, even allowing for King leaving, he can be in their 17 every week and fullback spot is wide open so there's that.

Do you think Cook is a realistic chance of taking a spot in the 17? I really like him but is it a year too early for him?

 

[watatank]

Do you think Cook is a realistic chance of taking a spot in the 17? I really like him but is it a year too early for him?

What I think the Bulldogs should be doing (and will be doing) is having Cook at 14, relieving Ennis who will play less minutes as he gets towards the end of his career and then of course providing cover for everyone else. He's perfect for the squad they have. Fullback is wide open too, unlikely he will be first choice but it's a long season, he may be needed.

 

[watatank]

Agree about Cook and pretty much what you have said.Kyle however is a smart player who could adapt,but I reckon Quinlan is also in the mix and would be great coming on as he is a busy player,tough and good backing up play.

If we had proper alternatives we wouldn't even be talking about players like Stanley or Quinlan in that position. That's the issue here.

Sorry to pick on you on this one but the talk of Quinlan playing as a bench player really irks me. Yeah he might be fast and have good support play but he's small, weak and can't tackle. His best position is backup fullback and even then he'd be third or fourth choice at best. We always mention the need for mongrel forwards and then we want to put Quinlan next to them? Ludicrous.

 

[hardbaby]

If we had proper alternatives we wouldn't even be talking about players like Stanley or Quinlan in that position. That's the issue here.

Sorry to pick on you on this one but the talk of Quinlan playing as a bench player really irks me. Yeah he might be fast and have good support play but he's small, weak and can't tackle. His best position is backup fullback and even then he'd be third or fourth choice at best. We always mention the need for mongrel forwards and then we want to put Quinlan next to them? Ludicrous.

I feel that way as well. I would like a utility player on the bench but as often as not, the utility player isn't actually needed to cover an injury. So you need to get value out of him (i.e. minutes) in the pack somewhere. The obvious place is to give the hooker a breather so surely the utility player we pick needs to be able to handle that position. I thought Quinlan played ok but everything about that guy said fullback. Probably not five eight. And definitely not hooker. he would get absolutely smashed.

 

[hardbaby]

What I think the Bulldogs should be doing (and will be doing) is having Cook at 14, relieving Ennis who will play less minutes as he gets towards the end of his career and then of course providing cover for everyone else. He's perfect for the squad they have. Fullback is wide open too, unlikely he will be first choice but it's a long season, he may be needed.

Yeah right. I hadn't realised he was the close to being ready. If so, that is a terrible loss for the Dragons.

 

[watatank]

Yeah right. I hadn't realised he was the close to being ready. If so, that is a terrible loss for the Dragons.

He wouldn't make the 17 ahead of Rein or Garvey (not next year, anyway) but he has versatility and adds to our depth. That's what we miss.

 

[hardbaby]

He wouldn't make the 17 ahead of Rein or Garvey (not next year, anyway) but he has versatility and adds to our depth. That's what we miss.

It's a weird situation really. In a club that supposedly had "organic depth" not much really eventuated. And what did, came in just two positions (depth-wise). Hooker and fullback. Hooker produced Rein, King, Garvey. Fullback produced Cummins, Cook, Runciman and Quinlan. Yet we end up with a fullback we bought and a hooker most seem to hate. Kind of makes you wonder?

 

[possm]

Our recruitment problems relate to a lack of vision by our recruitment people and apparently no real timetable for the future replacement of key NRL players leaving the Club. For example a suitable replacement for Hornby, Young and Cooper in the season following their retirement and suitable forwards to replace Smith and Scott in the season following their departure from the Club.

We always seem to be hoping - with fingers crossed - for a fringe player or an inexperienced junior to step up. This should be the exception rather than the rule.

I also hold the view that players returning from long term injury, such as Stanley, Hunt and Beale, should be brought back through the Cutters after first proving themselves under match conditions.

 

[hardbaby]

It's tricky. The Dragons have a great junior base. We produce a lot of internationals. That is our strength and we should play to it. But we also need to be realistic in assessing when a crop of younger players is slightly below standard and whether we are missing players in certain positions. Then we recruit. We dropped the ball a bit in the last few years but are off to a good start for 2014. We need two more in 2015 and we are looking good. We are definitely moving in the right direction.

 

[BrissyRedV]

We are moving in the right direction with our recruitment but we are very reactive with our recruitment drives where we should be proactive especially when good players come onto the market. Having a great junior base is awesome, but not every player that comes out of the region is going to be a superstar

 

[Lethal25]

seems to me the real issue here starts with the incumbent hooker, nobody has sufficient faith in Mitch Rein......

Myself I can't shake the memory of Ben Hornby blowing up at Reign during a game when he made a bad decision out of dummy half. I trusted Hornby and now I cant trust Reign

IMO there is no chance of being successful without a topline hooker, I dont feel Reign is that guy

 

[saints4me]

Bennett bought us a premiership and the cost of that was short term visionary recruitment.

 

[Cagey Mac]

I think its a dud move and typical of Price's short sightedness. Kyle played some dummy half in early 2011 when he was lighter and quicker, and still looked too big and a tad cumbersome for the role. If a move to the middle is on the cards due to his knee problems then he'd be more suited to a John Sutton-style shift to lock given his size. If he's being considered as a bench utility to be used everywhere in the forwards and backs, then we face the grim prospect of Mitch Rein playing long minutes again. In addition, it means stunting the development of our only genuine alternate hooker, Craig Garvey. Not to mention it being yet another misuse of Kyle himself.

Sorry to be late with responding to this. Putting together kids Christmas presents etc. is time consuming

Happy New Year while I'm at it!

I see where you're coming from Godz and thought that Style lacked creativity from DH in '11 but haven't written him off totally.

Rein too is young so I haven't tossed the baby out with the bathwater there either. This year will tell. I certainly take your unusually strong doubts of his ability into consideration.

Garvey will hopefully get his chance in the in the first half of the season. Some time with the Cutters can't really hurt.

As to misuse of Kyle? IMO he hasn't cut it anywhere in the very limited time he has had at anywhere but 5/8, where he has shown glimpses of real talent.

Certainly I'm willing to give this scenario the benefit of the doubt for a while and actually do think that it may have legs (If Style does ;-)

 

[Benny]

Stanley is a 6 or 7. Traditional 6 but we know for most teams playing left/right halves it is just a number. Defensively very good and as such could do a job in centres, hooker and even fullback ( if doesn't get the fumbles) but lacks the speed to be anything but solid.

Stanley has unbelievable vision and skills to play at line - just an out and out ball player like a Jason Smith or a Cliffe Lyons.

Recruitment has been poor in terms of hooker. King is most talented (though injury prone), Garvey has everything to make it (but is a season away) while Rein is very limited but more than often fit.

Smart money was giving King a year extension while re-signing Rein and Garvey for only 2 years and buying a season or two to make the right decisions - I think we've made the wrong one and should have kept King and Cook and let Rein go.

Either way we're short at hooker and quality edge back rowers for 2014 and even a big impact middle player.

 

[TheRev]

Myself I can't shake the memory of Ben Hornby blowing up at Reign during a game when he made a bad decision out of dummy half. I trusted Hornby and now I cant trust Reign

o Everyone is entitled to make mistakes (particularly early on), but I do agree that Rein doesnt seem particularly skilled at reading the flow of the game... thats a real shame, but that alone isnt the end of him as a player (just ends him as a playmaker).

o If Rein can keep his running & passing game up to 1st grade standard, and throw in the odd kick when its on.. then he can still justify his position, but he does have to improve in 2014.

o Meanwhile we watch what Garvey/Kyle/Quinlan are doing over the first 6 weeks and then we will know what the future holds.

o What's been strange to me is that Reins form has never been questioned on any NRL Show or Televised Game, and he still gets earmarked as a possible NSW Origin fill-in, it gobsmacks me, my feeling is that peoples opinions are based on his older form, and since he doesnt really make many errors & his tackle count appears high, people just assume hes the same player. Its basically what I do with the other NRL Clubs players, I dont see the subtle changes week in / week out, unless my eyes see something obvious in a game against the Dragons (or Origin), I assume everything is business as usual and they are still quality players.

 

[watatank]

When most rated him he was one of the few young 9s coming through from NSW playing regular first grade. He made somewhat of an impact as well. He's still 'young', so he will get the benefit of the doubt for a while from most but if he doesn't improve, as time goes on and others come through it will be harder to justify that view.

 

[Rex Terp]

Great bench hooker, tough as anything and will do all those solid things you need. A team man. As a long term starter who's going to control the pace of the ruck and read the game? I don't think so. I hope he proves me wrong.

I also think, for whatever reason, the current coaching staff are going to struggle to admit his faults. Too much talk and investment in him, despite his limitations.