Who is the oldest NRL Club?

[Timmah]

join the bandwagon is quite correct, Melbourne is the oldest club formed under the banner of the NRL.

Only the Northern Eagles, St George Illawarra Dragons, Wests Tigers and Gold Coast Titans are NRL entities

 

[_Johnsy]

The main difference is the name Rugby Union - Rugby League, I for one want no mention of union in our games grand history, apart from when explaining to those who don't know how our game came to be.

 

[Willow]

The main difference is the name Rugby Union - Rugby League, I for one want no mention of union in our games grand history, apart from when explaining to those who don't know how our game came to be.

That would be re-writing history as it happened.

IMO, rugby league and rugby union comes from the same 'rugby football' background.

Reading back through the origins of rugby football, it soon becomes apparent that the need for a professional football code was the driving force which led to to the formation of the NSWRL in 1907.

For decades prior to that, the various rugby football entities in NSW and QLD were grappling with professionalism. Rugby League didn't suddenly appear one day, it came about after years of disputes and politics within the game.

The controllers of rugby football in NSW resisted professionalism for as long they could. They did this against a background of promoters, underwriters and players working behind the scenes to organise events. These events were either outside of the control of rugby football officials, or the officials were simply turning a blind eye to it.

Rugby league is a the result of this. A professional football code. In a way, we should be applauding those rugby football players and officials who had the guts to take on the old guard.

 

[t-ba]

Yes but when you're talking about how old the clubs themselsves are how far back can you go? For example I know that in the ESL English fans talk about their clubs being formed in the 1880s. Or were the RL clubs distinctly different from their RU counterparts?

What were the differences between RL and RU back in 1908? I know there were some but I cant think of any of the top of my head atm. Coz otherwise you could say the clubs were playing essentially the same game except were now being paid.

The Rugby League clubs in Australia were all distinct identities from the Union clubs in 1908 IIRC.

The Northern Union basically saw clubs switch over wholesale. That's the big difference.

 

[Desert Qlder]

I gues sit is a matter of how you see it. I for one embrace pre 1908 history as part of our game because it was the same players playing it. Pre-1908 was however when the game in Australia of Rugby was under the control of the RFL. 1908 was when it decided to break from that control and form a new league.

You could say it is like today with the NRL wielding so much control over the game. Perhaps it is time for a revolution .

 

[Timmah]

Like Super League? ;-)

 

[RL1908]

In England RL began in 1895 when twenty or so existing RU clubs left the RFU and formed the Northern Union. These clubs all began as social clubs i.e. while some had names of towns, anyone (whether a resident or not) could apply to join. Many towns had two or more clubs (same as soccer).

In Sydney we too had similarly formed clubs in the 19th century, but they were all disbanded by the NSWRU/MRU in 1900 - the problem was that some clubs had all the best players (from providing players with secret payments and/or arranging jobs).

In 1900 the NSWRU/MRU disbanded all of the city's clubs (apart from the Sydney Uni) and implemented a "district scheme" for the 1900 season - they broke the metro area into allocated areas, and held a public meeting in each to form an overseeing body - Balmain, Newtown, Souths, Norths, Wests, Easts, Glebe. Every footballer was restricted to playing for his district.

Though the overseeing body for each district was called a "club", they were really nothing more more than a local arm of the NSWRU/MRU. Public meetings were organised and held by the NSWRU/MRU officials at the start of each year in each district to vote on whether to form a "club" for the coming season.

When RL formed in 1908, it used the same scheme. Each district held a meeting, as it had been doing between 1900 and 1907, but this time voted on whether to form a RL club or not (the first public meeting to form a RL club in Newcastle voted NOT to form a club). Hence, the RL clubs used the same colours and names as the district RU clubs (except for Wests).

The existing RU clubs could not leave the NSWRU/MRU as they had no autonomy - outside of the district scheme, they could not exist. Hence the RU clubs couldn't vote to swap codes.

This is the reason I am not getting too worked about whether Newtown RL club was formed on Jan 8th or 14th - as the NSWRL had divided the metro area up, it made no difference who was first to form.

It is not as if one club could claim part of another club's district by being first. Indeed, if the St George RL club had proceeded (a public meeting voted to form a club, but only 2 players signed-on & the club collapsed) it would have taken some of Newtown's district, even though Newtown was already founded. All that mattered was that the club was formed in time for the opening of the premiership.

Just to be clear - I am not saying that the 1908 clubs should not celebrate their founding dates, whatever they determine it to be - I fully understand/appreciate the importance of these celebrations a century on - I am merely explaining how the scheme worked in 1908.

Under the NSWRL scheme in 1908, each district club was given far more autonomy than what the NSWRU had given its district clubs - the NSWRL clubs received a third of the gate money from each match, and, over time, began to become what we would call a "club" (though the NSWRL continued to set where the district boundaries were for each club - something that lasted at the premiership level until 1994 i.e. the last NSWRL premiership before it became the ARL then NRL).

I agree RL should show a strong interest in the pre-1908 history of rugby in NSW and Qld (hence why I wrote the book - you can't explain RL's founding by starting in August 1907!).

I am in no doubt that if the NSWRU had have been overthrown from within (i.e. the tie to the RFU severed, and replaced with affiliation to English RL) or had it collapsed and permanently ceased to exist in 1908, or at any time prior to the 1930s, we would all be saying that RL had its beginnings in this country in the 1860s.

For comparison, look at Australian rules (playing rugby in 1858 yet claiming that as the first Aussie rules game) and American & Canadian football (both began by playing rugby union rules in the 1870s).

 

[Southern Rooster]

Here are the dates for all foundation clubs, via www.rl1908.com.au

Balmain Rugby League Club was born at a public meeting held at Balmain Town Hall in Darling Street, on January 23, 1908.

Cumberland, officially known as "Central Cumberland", were formed on the evening of April 20, 1908

Glebe was the first Rugby League club formed in Australia, having their inaugural meeting on January 9, 1908.

The League's Harry Hoyle travelled to Newcastle and spoke persuasively to a large gathering at Pike's Rooms (in Bolton Street) on the evening of February 8, 1908

The Newtown Rugby League Club was the second club formed under the NSWRL banner (14th January) - though some members of the club insist Newtown was first (8th January). All newspaper reports confirm the date as 14th January

North Sydney was formed as a foundation club of the newly arrived rugby league game in 1908 and were known as the Shoremen. Can't find a date.

The South Sydney Rabbitohs began in October 1907 when star Rugby Union hooker, Arthur Hennessy, covened a small gathering of locals who were supportive or directly involved in the creation of the new professional rugby game in Sydney.
The meeting was held in Hennessy's home (Chapman Street, Surry Hills) shortly after Baskerville's ‘All Blacks' had played the rebel NSW rugby team. The object was the formation of a Rugby League club in the South Sydney district. It was a humble beginning for what would soon become one of the world's greatest ever football clubs, of any code.
The first public meeting was held at a packed Redfern Town Hall on 17 January, 1908 where a vote to seek club registration with the NSWRL was endorsed ‘overwhelmingly'.

Easts were founded at a meeting held at Paddington Town Hall on January 24 1908

Almost every decade saw Wests hit with some decision of the game's administration that would see their ability to compete brought into serious examination. Even at the formation of the competition in 1908, the club missed out on some good footballers. No mention of a meeting etc.

Newtown do have the 1st receipt issued by the NSWRL (I believe they still have it) and there are also claims they were formed 8th Jan. But Newtown were definately the first paid up member of the NSWRL.

 

[Willow]

Indeed, if the St George RL club had proceeded (a public meeting voted to form a club, but only 2 players signed-on & the club collapsed) it would have taken some of Newtown's district, even though Newtown was already founded. All that mattered was that the club was formed in time for the opening of the premiership.

On February 28, 1908, St George defintely formed a club and a president was elected. But when it came to signing up players those in attendance largely pulled out. This was despite a healthy turnout and apparent support for the new club. As you say, not many players signed (I thought it was three). One of these was St George RU forward Ted Coutney who went onto represent Australia and in his day was a rugby league legend.

Its unclear why the players didn't sign. Its quite likely union opposition was the cause - the St George Rugby Football Club was already well established and it does appear that union officials and at least one newspaper were attempting to undermine the efforts to form a local rugby league club.

The St George RL officials, however, did establish a number of junior grade competitions and they did form a NSWRL third grade team soon after that, so the meeting seem to have a positive fallout of sorts. This is thanks to the efforts of a few keen locals, including Joe McGraw who was local football referee.

I can't recall when the St George Rugby Football club was established... perhaps you know?

 

[RL1908]

St George were allocated a district within the Sydney RU first grade comp in 1906 (along with Manly). Saints took a huge chunk of Newtown's district.

What is so unusual with the St George dsitrict is that at the meeting to form the St George RL club in 1908, an overwhelming majority voted in favour of a resolution proposing to form the club - so it was actually formed in 1908.

The problem was that when they opened the membership roll a few minutes later, only Tedda Courtney and 2 others came forward (you were correct Willow) to sign-on as members. So club was born and died in the same night!

These RU & RL club meetings were all open to the public to attend and to vote - so I can understand RU-supporters turning up in big numbers and voting against forming a RL club (as happened in Newcastle), but can't see how there were sufficient voting to form the St George club (voting was by a show of hands), but then only 3 of those same men were prepared to walk forward and sign-on.

Over at Balmain, after having formed the Balmain RL club, the RL-supporters turned up en masse at the annual Balmain RU club meeting - their numbers at that meeting were so large that a the motion proposing to form the Balmain RU club for 1908 was beaten.

The NSWRU/MRU weren't complete clowns - they organised another meeting for the Balmain RU club, and made sure it was on the same night as the next Balmain RL club meeting.

In Newcastle, Giltinan overcame problems there by ensuring the next meeting proposing to form a Newcastle RL club was "invitation only".

St George entered the NSWRL's "President's Cup" in 1910 - the first season it was held.

Wild times!

 

[Willow]

St George were allocated a district within the Sydney RU first grade comp in 1906 (along with Manly). Saints took a huge chunk of Newtown's district.

What is so unusual with the St George dsitrict is that at the meeting to form the St George RL club in 1908, an overwhelming majority voted in favour of a resolution proposing to form the club - so it was actually formed in 1908.

The problem was that when they opened the membership roll a few minutes later, only Tedda Courtney and 2 others came forward (you were correct Willow) to sign-on as members. So club was born and died in the same night!

There were conflicting media reports at the time. I understand (I may have originally source Ian Heads on this) The Bulletin which was pro-union took some pleasure in stating there was a hasty exit to the door. But The St George Call painted a more positive picture.

It does seem that while everyone in attendance was happy to see the club form, only a few were willing to get further involved.

Who knows for sure what happened? Maybe the beer ran out. ;-)

I would have liked to be a fly a wall at the time.