Why do guitarists with expensive valve amps use pedals?

[Simo]

As there is a lot of guitarists floating around hear I was wondering if someone could answer an age old question for me.

I have never had a full valve amp but have read the many reports of valve is best (is it like vinyl is best even though it isnt?).

Why though with valve amps ranging in the thousands of $$$ do artists such as eddie van halen (and many other artists ive seen) use cheap $100 overdrive pedals???

http://guitargeek.com/rigview/258/

This link shows you EVHs setup from 1997 and notice the cheap Boss overdrive pedal.

Im sure I was going through Vais setup once to and he had another cheap pedal in his mix of squillion dollar amps.

Are the sounds coming from such expensive amps that bad that they need to be replaced with $100 distortion pedals?

 

[carcharias]

Pretty simple really
1) to adjust the amp to sound super distorted like the pedal doesn't really give you a whole lot of variation.
e.g
chanel one on your amp may be your clean rhythm chanel
chanel two may be your lead chanel ( similar settings but turned up louder...just a bit ballsier )
The pedal gives you another option.

2) PLaying live is hard enough without fidddling with your amp to achieve a certain sound for each song.
Im sure other guitarists agree here ..you can have the amp set exaclty the same in 2 different rooms and it will sound totally different.

3) other pedals give different sounds that amps don't have

I have an effects rack I never use live only because it is a diabolical nightmare trying to sing , play and switch footpedals with diff volumes etc etc.

Live I use a footswitch with my marshall, a digital delay and that is it.

...And I usually slowly increase the volume throughout the gig....to the point of no return.

 

[Simo]

Yeah but why invest in such expensive amps that are all valve to add $100 distortion to it?

I thought the whole point of shelling out for these expensive 'valve' amps was for the 'warm' feeling you can only get with a tube amp. But you create your sound with a cheap $100 digital pedal.

I see your point about having more options and if it came down to budget I agree but ive seen Marshalls with 3 channels and surely players like EVH and other multi millionaires can afford multiple amps or amps with many channels.

It says to me that the expensive circuitry in an Amp worth $3grand is no better than the circuitry in a $100 pedal.

 

[carcharias]

Yeah but why invest in such expensive amps that are all valve to add $100 distortion to it?

I thought the whole point of shelling out for these expensive 'valve' amps was for the 'warm' feeling you can only get with a tube amp. But you create your sound with a cheap $100 digital pedal.

I see your point about having more options and if it came down to budget I agree but ive seen Marshalls with 3 channels and surely players like EVH and other multi millionaires can afford multiple amps or amps with many channels.

It says to me that the expensive circuitry in an Amp worth $3grand is no better than the circuitry in a $100 pedal.

most of the time you don't have the pedal turned on.
It is just used for a specific solo usually.

Yeah 3 channels amps are an option .

It could also be just a bit of preference for the player...maybe he likes the sound of the 100 buck pedal.

just remember rule number 1: There are no rules.

 

[Martli]

The pedal overrides the tubes (valves) and gives a great high gain sound. Most of these guys use Marshall JCM 800s which, by themselves, don't really achieve a high gain sound. When coupled with an overdrive pedal like an ibanez tube-screamer the extra boost puts the tubes into overdrive and thus you get your slayer/ozzy/van halen whatever sound. These pedals are NOT digital, they just boost the signal from your guitar, there is a huge difference between a distortion pedal that 14 year olds use with their practise amps and a peroperly used overdrive pedal. It's quite common practise. Plus if you see eddie van halen's set up you'll see it is A LOT more than a pedal and amp.

 

[Simo]

It could also be just a bit of preference for the player...maybe he likes the sound of the 100 buck pedal.

just remember rule number 1: There are no rules.

Fair point......each to there own and all that.

I'd just like to emphasis that these pedals are NOT digital, they just boost the signal from your guitar, there is a huge difference between a distortion pedal and an overdrive pedal.

Didnt know that, will do some research. If any links come to mind that explain the difference, do post!

 

[Martli]

A distortion pedal is like adding another preamp, it moulds your sound before it gets to the amp. All an overdrive pedal does is boost your signal strength so it's the same raw sound from your pickups.

 

[Simo]

A distortion pedal is like adding another preamp, it moulds your sound before it gets to the amp. All an overdrive pedal does is boost your signal strength so it's the same raw sound from your pickups.

So you would use a distortion pedal with your amp on your clean sound and and overdrive pedal on your amps overdrive channel to add extra punch?

 

[carcharias]

I sometimes use yellow Boss overdrive pedal I have.
I have 2 Marshalls and I will use it with the little amp to get a bit more volume during solo's.

Biggest problem is pissed punters kicking the leads out while your playing .

That is one of the main reason's I usually use just a marshall footswitch.
If we play on a high stage where the pedals wont get knocked I use them ...but in a pub and on ground level itis just another thing that can go wrong.

 

[fat_mike]

i use all the power i can get straight from the amp. only pedal i have thought about getting was a graphic EQ pedal which a mate has used. we have the same randall amps and the added kick it gives the amp sounded fantastic.

only pedals i use is my channel change randall pedall. only 2 choices for me. clean or distorted. to easy.

 

[Martli]

So you would use a distortion pedal with your amp on your clean sound and and overdrive pedal on your amps overdrive channel to add extra punch?

I guess so, but distortion pedals usually sound like mud. An overdrive pedal can still override the tubes in a "clean" channel it just may not be a typical high gain sound. The JCM 800s I was talking about are only 1 channel though. Tubes do the whole spectrum from clean to dist depending on how hard you crank it. Specific channels that are "dirty" or "clean" are a largely solid state thing. Most tube amps specialise in one sound though (ie fender=clean marshall=dirty). Guys like eddie are boosting an already overdriven sound. I just have to stress that these JCM800s where, and for some still are, THE AMP that people used. Sure eddie had the 5150 as his "signature" for a while, but before that he was using JCM800s (Hell, maybe he went back to them).The guys that use this on a mesa or dual channel marshal or something use it for the solo boost carcharias was talking about.

 

[Misty Bee]

Why use pedals? Simply to get more variation in sounds.

When I played I used a Marshall JCM 800 - the days before split channels. I used the orange Boss distortion to beef up the sound. I also had switchable humbuckers in my bridge pickups in my strats - the switches turned on/off the second coil.

I had other pedals - I used volume for leads, also chorus, delay, touch wah. Yes, they were finicky to use - especially singing a chorus and then jumping on 3 pedals to gointo a lead.

Basically the reason behind that was that I could span the spectrum from Knopfler/Clapton to Iommi/Rhodes, or to whatever crap thing the singer wanted us to do.

More recently I used a mates twin channel Baez amp - based on a Marshall 900 worked to EVH's brown sound. I still needed the pedals.

 

[newman]

A BOSS Distortion or Overdrive pedal is a vital part of ANY guitarists repotoire if you plan on playing heavy music. Do not let their price tag fool you, thousands of legendary musos have used this awesome tool.

As has been said, you are simply overdriving the tube to beef up the sound of the amp. The heavier the amp sounds to begin with, the louder and heavier (ie better) the sound will be once you hit that pedal. Run one through a 5150 and its an orgasmic experience of bowel shaking proportions you simply cant get through the amp alone (and its a freaking heavy sounding amp).