Will Nathan Cleary surpass Andrew Johns as the greatest ever halfback to play the game?

[The_Frog]

Isn’t even the best halfback in the nrl

Hughes will win dally m halfback of the year

Not Mitch Moses?

 

[The_Frog]

That said, with respect to Newcastle, Johns made a good side Great.

He also got them a spoon in 2005 by sucking up all their cap and then getting injured for half the season. Remember how he was going to union and the Knights asked the NRL for help keeping him?

 

[perverse]

Voted no just because it's such a dumbass question to ask right now. There's about a decade of champaigne football ahead of him to be uttered in the same breath as Johns. Victories at every level, Dally Ms to be won, the nature of the game to evolve with his influence. Could he do it? I mean, it's plausible I guess... but there's enough water to go under the bridge yet that it's not even a real question at this point.

Someone probably asked the same question of Tim Smith when he hit the scene too.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I would have gone with Reynolds and Walker myself.

Another way of looking at it who was the best halfback at the same age as Cleary is now - 23.

Cleary
- debuted at 18,
- selected for City at 19,
- State of Origin at 20 - first choice halfback throughout (bar injury), with NSW winning 3 of 4 series.
- At Penrith - winning the Minor Premiership and making a Grand final at 22..

Johns…

- Debuted at 19 (older than Cleary)
- selected for Country at 21 (older than Cleary)
- State of Origin at 21 (older than Cleary), and in the 3 years til he was 23 (same age as Cleary now) he lost his debut series 3-0, played Hooker in a winning series, then halfback for a winning series - all while “Super League” players weren’t selected.
- At Newcastle he won the ARL competition at 23..

That’s just stats I know, but Cleary has achieved all those same milestones at a younger age than Johns. If Cleary / Penrith win the comp this year he’ll have matched Johns here, all be it the ARL comp had many sides missing that joined Superleague - including the Broncos and Raiders - two big powerhouses of the early/mid 90’s.

So to me, there’s definitely a case to say that he could be better than Johns by the end of his career. That said, with respect to Newcastle, Johns made a good side Great. He was the main man who dragged his team to great heights. Cleary has a great team all around him. Johns stood out more in his team than Cleary does.

What a pity you won't be watching him.

 

[Smug Panther]

Voted no just because it's such a dumbass question to ask right now. There's about a decade of champaigne football ahead of him to be uttered in the same breath as Johns. Victories at every level, Dally Ms to be won, the nature of the game to evolve with his influence. Could he do it? I mean, it's plausible I guess... but there's enough water to go under the bridge yet that it's not even a real question at this point.

Someone probably asked the same question of Tim Smith when he hit the scene too.

The Joey comparison is dumb but that Tim Smith one is on par with it

 

[soc123_au]

Well they replaced 2 quality halves with Moses and Wighton, don't know what they expected.

Very good point. Reynolds and Walker would have been a better choice to allow Latrell and Turbo to continue what they did in game 1 and 2.

 

[soc123_au]

He's barley in the top 10 let alone at the top!

Johns, JT, Lockyer, Cronk, Lewis, Stirling, Kenny, Langer, Stuart and so the list goes on ahead of him, at the moment. If he can win premierships and dominate Origin and Test arena then we can have the conversation.

What have grains got to do with anything?

 

[ColdWetPanther]

I'd suggest in games 1 & 2 this year he absolutely did. When he was out in game 3, we went from destroying Qld to being beaten by them. His loss was enormous. But that said - both Cleary & Johns had "mediocre" starts to their Origin careers. Cleary has copped a bit for his early origin games but many forget that Johns' first series was in 1995 against a decimated Qld side that beat NSW 3-0.

We've currently got the whole of Johns' career to reflect on, while the majority of Cleary's career is yet to happen. "IF" Cleary can put in many more dominant performances for NSW in time, many series wins etc, and continue/exceed his current form at the Panthers & get a few titles under his belt - I'd suggest he does indeed have a shot at consideration as the better halfback when he's finished his career. That's just my opinion.

I agree with BBJF. No way at the moment and Joey probably came into the comp with a bigger bang than Cleary. But over the last few years he has improved (from a very good base) tremendously and if he keeps improving he will be ranked a very special player when he ends.

Of course, he will need to win things along the way; premierships and SOO MoMs. But as a Panthers and Blues fans here is hoping he does that.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

What a pity you won't be watching him.

I might just make a comeback some day soon Greeny, and I can’t wait for you to quote my post when I do… genuinely..

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

He also got them a spoon in 2005 by sucking up all their cap and then getting injured for half the season. Remember how he was going to union and the Knights asked the NRL for help keeping him?

Good memory.

How you reckon Cleary would go at Cricket?

Have Johns covered….?

 

[mozza91]

He also got them a spoon in 2005 by sucking up all their cap and then getting injured for half the season. Remember how he was going to union and the Knights asked the NRL for help keeping him?

Our entire team was injured in 2005. We also had no main sponsor or anywhere to train. We were touching Roosters levels of adversity.

Johns started the season slowly after a knee reco and then broke his jaw. He still managed to dominate Origin at a level that Cleary isn’t capable of and scored more Dally M points than Cleary ever will in a season.

 

[The_Frog]

Our entire team was injured in 2005. We also had no main sponsor or anywhere to train. We were touching Roosters levels of adversity.

Johns started the season slowly after a knee reco and then broke his jaw. He still managed to dominate Origin at a level that Cleary isn’t capable of and scored more Dally M points than Cleary ever will in a season.

Bigger drug cheat too.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

He also got them a spoon in 2005 by sucking up all their cap and then getting injured for half the season. Remember how he was going to union and the Knights asked the NRL for help keeping him?

The birth of the TPA if I remember correctly. Not quite Terry Hill-level in screwing the competitiveness of the comp, but severely weakened the effectiveness of the cap.

Of course, if it wasn’t Joey it would be another player. League never has been very good at seeing the bigger picture…

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Our entire team was injured in 2005. We also had no main sponsor or anywhere to train. We were touching Roosters levels of adversity.

Johns started the season slowly after a knee reco and then broke his jaw. He still managed to dominate Origin at a level that Cleary isn’t capable of and scored more Dally M points than Cleary ever will in a season.

Seeing some of the replays of the mid-2000s Origin series this year I had forgotten how good Joey was at times over that period. I can only hope Cleary gets there one day!!

 

[_Johnsy]

Bigger drug cheat too.

This has nothing to do with Webcke.

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Don’t be greedy, you are getting Burton. It’s early days, but a thread in a few years comparing Burton to Johns is highly likely. Unless of course TBaz f**ks him, which is also highly probable.

Burton will be compared to Fittler….

 

[Smug Panther]

Bigger drug cheat too.

I think you have me blocked but f**kup you racist clown

 

[ColdWetPanther]

Joey was a genius. As was JT.

Cleary, as outstanding as he is for his age, doesn't have THAT sort of natural ability.

It's also no coincidence that a lot of the great attacking players in the game right now are all looking like legends, courtesy of the V'landys Ball Touch footy 6 again-a-thon style of play.

The likes of Joey, JT, Freddy, Locky and peak Benji would have an absolute birthday playing the game today; especially in 2021 where there's about 8 teams who are all wooden spoon quality.

I watch most games this season (which is sometimes a bit of a slog) through my licorice all sorts coloured glasses, but the thing that is most impressive about Nathan is he is probably the only player that has been able to almost single handedly turn the momentum of V’Landyball. His kicking is a big part of this, but it is not just the size of his boot but the intelligence of his kicking (angles, timing, courage etc). But beyond his kicking his organisation and edge defending is very strong.

I voted no to the question because it asked ‘will’ as Joey is rightly an immortal and Nathan currently is not, but if it asked ‘could’ I would have voted the other way because I believe he is a special player.

 

[The_Frog]

Burton will be compared to Fittler….

Has already happened. Rugby League callers being what they are.

 

[mozza91]

Bigger drug cheat too.