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Will V'landys?

Discussion in 'NRL Media Watch' started by LeagueXIII, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    Crowds have gone lower and lower, viewer number have gone lower and lower. We are reaching or have reached our new normal.

    The habits of people change and have changed. We need to prepare for the future.

    “Build it and they will come” used to be the catch cry but no longer is. Times have changed.

    Ask Myer or David Jones how whether they’d like to (a) get more showroom space (b) keep the same showroom space that they have or (c) reduce their showroom space and they’ll categorically answer “C”.

    Peoples habits are changing and we need to change with them or risk bankruptcy. The NRL was slowly going bankrupt before Covid-19. Now’s the time to get the decisions right for the long term and not be so short term focussed.

    The NRL, as an entertainment organisation can only be finite because they go from broadcast contract to contract. It is their job to use the TV and sponsorship money to make the game as attractive as possible in order for the broadcasters to renew their broadcast rights.

    Maybe if/when they launch their own online Sub platform, it will be different but even then a methodology has been done by other online services.
     
  2. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    Saint, Sinner, Shoosh: V’landys hosts rival TV boss
    As rival networks look to pinch the NRL TV rights, one broadcast boss was spotted as a guess of Peter V’landys
     
  3. colly

    colly Juniors

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    I was wondering when you were going to take this line, richer (afl) ie revenue and asset's. As usual you are wrong, footy industry is a afl toady- so lets put up west coast against a ordinary league club ( remembering most clubs have 'leagues club and NSW clubs HAVE HUGE CLUBS)
    Lets have the Parramatta leagues club Revenue over $100 million, sounds about right. Assets of $108 million. Things like buildings/ land other properties.
    https://www.parraleagues.com.au/annual-report-2019/
    What about the The West group , Newcastle knights leaue club(s)
    Revenue $175 million dollars
    Assets Net $ 256 million dollars
    Western Suburbs (N'cle) Leagues Club Limited ... - Wests Group
    mywests.com.au › Wests-FY19-Financial-Report-Signed

    PDF

    We can do this Cantubury, St george Illarra (two clubs) and a giant Penrith panthers, West tigers at Cambelltown, Sharkies, Roosters ect.



    Tell me what afl clubs can match these NRL clubs, remembering we have approx 12 more league clubs groups ie NSW without knowing what they have in QLD, however Broncos have a' club' and so do cowboys.

    So again the NRL earns more , usually defined by revenue and is richer usually defined by asset's.
    So if you want to disappear all the league clubs and all the revenue they provide you might be wright.
    I can see it coming, those evil poker machines ( which in the accounts/ Parramatta only provide around half the revenue )
    So your snooked-
    It's all in the Publically available annual reports of each club, I don't think the afl will ever catch up.

    This is thirsty work- I might visit the club.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  4. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    Yes yes yes yes yes.
    Which is why I’m questioning what V’Landys has actually done for the game. Short term bullying, posturing for long term…………?

    V’Iandys is chairman of the board, he effectively sacked Greenberg, and appointed Abdo. Why is V’Iandys still making decisions that a CEO should be making. Because he can’t delegate responsibility, he wants to keep control over everything, it will eventually affect the running of the NRL, if not already.

    If Abdo isn’t up to the game as you say, why did V’landy install him as CEO in the first place? Answer, so he could control the works.

    The NRL are LOSING to the AFL in Queensland..

    this is the biggest problem we face.

    Last year across the state of Queensland at some level 265,000 people participated in some way in AFL. That’s why the Suns are getting their millions from head office. https://www.aflq.com.au/afl-participation-in-queensland-reaches-record-high/

    .

    The AFL have been very well managed for a long time now. The big question with the AFL is how do they expand ?

    AFL has certainly expanded in this country and it has had some success but where does it go next ?

    There is no international game to speak of. It has its national comp and gets massive crowds that both rugby codes can only envy but thats it. There are no internationals, No Origin type secondary comp. No regular Trans-Tasmen event, No World Cup. Its the regular season and that is it.

    They have done a fantastic job at grass roots level that we can only envy and they have established a broad country wide footprint but much of their expansion opportunities are constrained to within these shores. AFL does and is likely to continue to dominate the sporting landscape in this country but it will find that moving beyond Australia is very much more problematic.

    We, the NRL, our NRL, have one of the most exciting spectacles of a sport anywhere in the world.

    The product is fantastic. It absolutely smashes Union and is in my view much much better than soccer or AFL (I admit, I am biased). So if we have such an exciting product and crowds are falling it can only be because a) The structure of the game is wrong or / and 2) we don’t market our game properly.

    "Crowds have gone lower and lower”
    When you schedule matches at Thursday 8pm on a school night, and Friday 6pm, where people are still coming home from work, what do you expect? That’s two matches per round held in unfriendly times. That equates to a quarter of a season of matches.

    “viewer number have gone lower and lower.”
    Viewership is fragmented. Nine’s matches are simulcasted with Fox. Of course Fox televises every game, every round. Theres the Kayo streaming service and NRL Live pass where you can watch a game in a 7 inch screen.
    So a with Nine game, you can watch it in four different platforms- Nine, Fox, Kayo and Nrl live pass.
     
  5. Phil McGrawhan

    Phil McGrawhan Coach

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    Oh dear quoting the aflol rubbery participation fibures ..
    Has been shown over and over how thesefigures are not just crap but usually outright lies .
    Back to BF you go
     
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  6. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    Having spent three years in Mackay (hardly traditional Australian Football home-turf) I can tell you that you are flat wrong about that claim. Plenty of AFL interest in QLD, and particularly within the youth where interest to me seemed about evenly split.

    The AFL continue to plug away at grassroots level building the game from the ground up.

    It just beggars belief that V Landys and the NRL big brass cannot see this…

    If V Landys and the NRL could get it’s act together and all but carbon copy the AFL playbook then I see no reason it could not sell our great game of Rugby league though breaking genuinely into AFL heartland territory is another matter. especially as Melbourne Storm are the premiers and champion team in Victoria.

    There is lots of good will there in Victoria with the Storm but no ability to turn that into participation figures and take the game to the AFL in its heartland. Thats the only way to really fire a shot over the bow of the AFL juggernaut currently positioning itself by taking the grassroots across the Nation.

    What you’re basically saying is that the AFL need to take over Sydney to be successful. Even the NRL struggles to get the numbers you suggest – yesterday’s Charity Shield game attracted 150k on TV in Sydney and Brisbane combined. The NRL main season don't get much more as far as Fox and free to air viewing figures are concerned.

    It’s rubbish.
     
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  7. Phil McGrawhan

    Phil McGrawhan Coach

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    Lol was the game on FTA
    And lovehow you avoided the fubbery afl fibures .
     
  8. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    difference is most of the money generated by the league club is paid back out in tax and winnings meaning the bottom line, and the amount spent on the football club is relatively minor in comparison to the revenue. The opposite is true of the wc eagles, and many afl clubs, whose $100mill is all football club generated and spent making the football club bigger and stronger. For example they have just built a $60million training centre they paid for themselves. What nrl club can do that without the govt paying most of it for them?
    So if you look at eels seeing as you mentioned them, their $80mill revenue in 2020 looks impressive until you factor in $63mill of that goes straight back out in taxes and costs, they announced they made a $2mill profit and failed to mention they had to borrow $5.5mill from the bank.
    The game is still largely reliant on pokies and the poor saps who feed them, pretty sad really.
     
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  9. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    Re grassroots growth, it’s all about having the will and the money, mostly the money to invest. As an example NRL funds around 10FT positions at NRLWA which includes management and development officers. AFL funds 88 in queensland.
    Around 12 staff at NRLVic compared to afls 104 in nsw.
    But when you can get your revenue $250mill a year more than your rival and have a long term strategy to be Australias winter national footy code I guess that you have the luxury of being able to do that?
     
  10. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    It was free on the Nrl.com on kayo and it was on foxtel so it was pretty much accessible on all platforms to everyone who has a visual device.

    Let’s not criticise Vlandy’s too much. He reflects the way they do things in Sydney. The NRL and Sydney in general has never been very good at governance; What surprises me is that in Sydney rugby league has so few participants & members compared to the soccer & Aussie Rules.

    AFL is the number 4 most attended sport per match in the WORLD not state, not country.

    Rugby League can't compete there. .But it can at least try and maximise the attendees experience.

    I am not surprised at the NRL low crowds, as this has been the fact going back to NSWRL. Ask yourself where the low crowds happen, mainly in old suburban facilities going back to the NSWRL.

    I’ll never get away from the fact ,that most Sydney suburban grounds except the new one at Parramatta are bog awful for comfort. Interesting since the new stadium arrived at
    Parramatta their crowds have increased ,as has sponsorship to record levels and membership.

    How many AFL grounds have standing room on hills? You have all seater stadiums. The Cowboys have shown what a new all seater stadium can do.


    OMG this is so true, the numbers driving the future direction of our great game vrs AFL. We need more people helping at grass roots level. Its simples. The expansion states especially Victoria which has the Premier side are crying out for help and V Landys and his mates in the big house just deny them and sit on their hands.
     
  11. colly

    colly Juniors

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    That your wrong about Eels revenue it was over 100 million NOT 80m you quote-
    So this is your afl juggernaut I give you St Kilda.
    The St Kilda Football Club has posted an overall accounting net profit of $2,462,880 for the year ending October 31 2019, while increasing total net assets to $17,220,691 (2018: $14,757,811).

    The club was preparing to post an operating profit of $383,208 before making some recent decisions on the timing of player injury and contract payments over the 2019 and 2020 financial years.

    As a result of bringing forward payments from 2020 to 2019, the club posted a loss of $323,975 before interest, tax and depreciation (EBITDA).

    St Kilda’s overall accounting net profit includes Moorabbin Reserve grant-funding revenue of $4,997,789, depreciation and amortisation expenses of $1,918,719.
    https://www.saints.com.au/news/308636/st-kilda-fc-financial-results

    Somehow I think that they struggle to get 10m revenue.- notice funding from Vic Gov too.

    Just for once admit the NRL is richer in both revenue and Assets. :Like no afl club has assets worth a 1/4 of a billion like 'The Westgroup' or Panthers revenue $139 million yearly and assets $231 million.
    https://issuu.com/pantherspenrith8/docs/final_prlc
    So you have St Kilda ( $18m) v Penrith panthers ($231m) who has the most asset's.
    I can quote you on an on about how rich the NRL is but you downplay it, when it's simple the truth, which you have a problem with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2021
  12. Perth Red

    Perth Red Immortal

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    yeh fair enough if you are looking at non football club revenue by owner groups. Should we count Russell crowes Hollywood earningS as well as part of Souths revenue? I guess if that’s the formula we are using then western force are the wealthiest club in the country given their owner made $1.6billion last year?

    all that money in LC it’s staggering that Sydney clubs are pnt playing in their own owned state of the art stadiums with incredibly funded community engagement programs isnt it? Or maybe the league club actually spends very little money on rugby league in reality?
     
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  13. Get Rid of The Donkeys

    Get Rid of The Donkeys Bench

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    Don't believe anything AwFuL HQ says. They're full of shit. When they talk about participation they include Auskick. The amount of registered fumbleballers in Queensland is about 20k. QRL has around 65k registered players.

    I wouldn't be surprised if AwFuL officials went down to Cleveland Point and counted the amount seagulls fighting over a chip as participants.
     
  14. Get Rid of The Donkeys

    Get Rid of The Donkeys Bench

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    Touch football is a form of RL. Add those figures with OzTag, Touch RL and RL and our game shits all over fumbleball.
     
  15. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    The AFL has been able to get itself into traditional rugby schools in Brisbane. In the early 70’s we tried to organise a fun RL game which was BANNED by the school. Now they’re happy to have soccer as a bona fide competition and funsies AFL. What’s going on?

    What surprises us all regarding Sydney rugby league and it’s low participants & members compared to the soccer & Aussie Rules can be explained by Johnny Warren the Australian Soccer great of the 60’s. As St George captain he came to speak to Hurstville primary school kids for Soccer. Plenty of kids played the game but he said he wanted the elite who played RL because of the invincible Saints. It was a slap in the face for the kids playing Soccer who often said smart people played Soccer and used John Raper as an example of a typical Rugby League mental giant

    Female rugby league is booming and may surpass the male version for participation rates, including Sydney. The tie up with Touch which is huge is also helping, quite a few NRL players have a Touch background. Some areas numbers are dropping ,others not so in Sydney.

    It is more NSW than Sydney with Rugby League and although it is the most popular code it has never had a monopoly like Aussie Rules in Victoria. Aussie Rules fans are more passionate even though many didn’t play the game. In 1980 at work I tried to sell a Canberra Rugby League raffle ticket to a Victorian woman who went hysterical and burst into tears.
     
  16. colly

    colly Juniors

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    No you do the right thing and only count official financial documents like statements and annual budgets. You see at the end of each year Clubs put out financial statement and their is a auditor who signs off on it, like Ernest and Young or some other Australian /and International recogised auditing group. So you only 'count' the statements which are publicly available. Russel Crowes earning we don't know and he is NOT listed in the Souths financial statement. But you that anyway. I won't reply on this subject as it has been proven the NRL is 'richer' than the afl. I will reply if you show some excellent proof proving otherwise and NOT useless reclassification of revenue and assets and such like.
     
  17. Get Rid of The Donkeys

    Get Rid of The Donkeys Bench

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    The posh schools are cesspools for RU bigots who hate RL with a passion. Villanova didn't add RL to its curriculum until parents complained about it not being there. Now it's offered as a Term 3 sport for people who play soccer or RU.

    Professionalism and the introduction of the 10 metre rule has hurt our game at the lower tier level. Players have to be big, fast, athletic, powerful and durable to get through a game these days without getting seriously hurt. When it was just 5 metres between the ruck and the defence and players weren't fully professional then there weren't as many violent collisions. Now it's big body builder body props and second rowers running at each other from 10 metres away, building up momentum and increasing the likelihood of serious injury. People are working longer hours than ever and cannot afford to risk getting injured playing a very dangerous game that requires countless hours at the gym each week.

    Don't take any notice of the dopey Victorian woman who laughed at RL. Fumbleball never had any competition down in that shit city. Its people lived in a bubble for most of the 20th century and take delight in being wilfully ignorant of anything that that isn't AwFuL. I honestly believe Victorians are the dumbest and most obnoxious people on Earth and should be shunned by the rest of Australia. I saw one throwing a tantrum in the comments section of the paper the other day because Brisbane is frontrunner for the 2032 Olympics and Melbourne isn't. I saw just as many stupid comments from Melbourenians when Gold Coast got the Commonwealth Games. They think they're superior to everyone and believe they are entitled to host every major sports event, despite none of them being any good at sport. Victoria is Australia's shame.
     
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  18. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    So True, get rid of Donkeys, you are spot on. Melbourne is full of left wing woke nuptis who talk about hot climate change while they freeze in winter. Dim wits who are so up themselves, they make their noses bleed.

    I get the feeling the NRL has become like an arm of the public service, where three people are doing the job that one could quite reasonably do.

    I’d also imagine Peter Beattie would have bought a few leather lounges and cappuccino machines on the NRL credit card from someone close to him before disappearing like a thief in the night .


    We cannot run a multi million dollar NRL business by committee and everyone in the game needs to learn that at times you just have to lump it.

    We have to stop questioning every little decision. Flu jabs, referrees, 6 again are these all issues of earth shattering proportions ? – No they are not. Its 1 flu jab for 1 year and if one ref doesn’t work then we go back to 2 and ditto 6 again. Vlandy’s has been critisised for his “Alarmist Rhetoric” phrase but gee with some of these reactions the phrase fits. The NRL has elected a committee and a CEO (albeit an interim one) to make decisions for the good of the game and its time we started trusting those decisions.

    . Unlike Greenberg he doesn’t seem to care if he is liked or not which is very necessary in Rugby League because almost every decision is split 50-50. I don’t think he would take the job due to his other commitments but if he did I personally think he would be an excellent choice

    Guys at his level have pretty impressive egos in my experience and they hate to leave things half done – well maybe with the exception of a certain orange haired bloke who lives in white painted mansion, but I won’t go there. [​IMG][​IMG]




    Artie Beetson was a great ball playing forward. I wasn’t going to break the line so I had to take two players in the tackle and pass the ball to a runner sending him through the defensive line.

    The contrast between V Landys legacy and Greenburgs will be very interesting.
     
  19. Vee

    Vee Bench

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    Try and keep up Phool.
     
  20. Rugged Rigid Robust Roy

    Rugged Rigid Robust Roy Juniors

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    If you want to talk about the majority of Australians living on the East Coast, then consider that government figures last year had, out of the two codes, 550K registered players for Australian Rules for people 15 and over, compared to League having 175K for the same age group.

    Outside their “heartlands”, only 25K are registered for League (outside NSW & QLD), compared to 120K for Australian Rules. (in NSW & QLD).

    So what about big crowds for one-off games each year or so? The biggest SOO crowd has been in Melbourne, yet where are the homegrown Victorian players? Take the Storm out of Melbourne and what happens to League then?

    The figures come from the government website “clearinghouseforsport” where the figures come from using data from AusPlay. It breaks it down into under 15 and 15 and over as well as state by state. There are currently 48 players in the AFL born in NSW and played in NSW before being drafted. There are more as well who have played, similar figures could be expected for Queensland as well. Those numbers mean that there are currently 1.25 NSW born players for every year the Swans have been in Sydney compared to 0.2 League payers every year of the Storm (1 every 5.5 years).

    What happens with players involved in two codes over the weekend?
    I mean there were times ,when rugby league did not include their school numbers in stats, whilst others did.
    I will not go into details but simply to state there is no WA nor SA NRL presence.
    What effect having teams would have on increasing juniors ,I have no idea.
    The Storm started in a State with SFA rl presence ,just a very small comp.They have received to this stage anyway, no where near the financial support the Swans have received, nor the media backing both print and electronic in this city Sydney.
    Despite the lack of large NRL financial support to date, the Storm’s juniors are growing .And TBH that’s all the NRL and myself care about.
    The other point to bear in mind,NSW both Riverina and even in Sydney have had a far bigger AFL presence historically, with rugby league barely on the horizon in Melbourne. .So your last para all that is doing is confirming my existence comment. And the ratio argument really is meaningless form the historical perspective. The longer you have a base, the better chance you have of recruiting for the main comp.
    And the Swans being in Sydney for 38 years with all these benefits, they get decent crowds with a decent all seater stadium, but average TV ratings.
    And I add ,having Touch(a huge participation sport) which the predictable knockers here bag within the NRL ,can assist in
    accessing a player or maybe more ,and even female rugby league players, as well as fans .It is so related to rugby league it makes the NRL easy to follow.
    I repeat any non heartland club for any sport, if they have a few very lean years, that will affect crowds.
     

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