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World Cup Momentum

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I feel like posting a long winded rant on what needs to happen. Sorry if it's mostly obvious, hopefully there are some decent ideas, interesting in others' thoughts.

Looking game-wide, there just needs to be more internationals, and they need to profit. We need to put ourselves in a position where players want to play for smaller nations, and the game can afford to offer match payments to countries outside the big 3. The 2 pro-comps need to be open to and allow this. Medium to long term it has massive benefits for the game. Rugby League's greatest strength is the NRL. With the right moves we could have both a better club scene AND rep scene than Union within 2 decades.

NRL needs to introduce rep weekends around the ANZAC test and SOO. On these weekends, the Pacific Cup could be held, and well promoted and viewed. This gets regular tests, players, exposure and hopefully income for all pacific nations and does so at minimal loss to the broadcasters, because let's be honest - the NRL comp around rep games is shithouse anyway. We're losing 4 rounds but 4 shit rounds, largely comprised of Byes and dud matches.

Mirror this in whatever way is suitable for the Super League and European Cup.

Post season internationals should stick with the current alternating 4N format. However before kicking off, the big 3 play a test each against the higher ranked Euro and Pac Cup teams. Concurrently to the 4N, other nations could play further test matches.

Teams outside of current WC nations should be playing regular matches too, as well as the European Bowl and similar tournaments, which could result in promotion up to the Cup level with progress.

The year before the WC, qualification tournaments need to happen for countries outside the top 3 or 5. Rather than a 4N, a return of a Lions tour or a 3 match series could potentially happen. Gap years where Aus refuses to play tests aren't ideal at all.

None of this is very far away from the set-up we have now - it just needs to be consistent, visible and well promoted.

Domestic game:

Aus has nowhere to go really, that would affect international RL. Expanding nationally is irrelevant to this discussion.

NZ could grow their domestic game to improve RL's overall popularity v Union.

England needs to improve the standard of their competition outside of the top few heartland teams.

Wales needs to work their way back towards SL entry, with a much more stable long term plan.

France should be aiming to have the world's 3rd fully professional RL comp.

Scotland and Ireland are a mystery to me - I have no idea what goes on domestically there or what pathways to SL exist. based on the squads chosen though, it would appear a lot of work needs to happen on building the grassroots and improving pathways to the top.

Similarly, the Island nations need to work with NRL, NSW Cup and QLD Cups to build clear paths to professional football, as well as growing their home leagues.

PNG have taken a massive step in entering the QLD Cup - They could be setting the benchmark for Pacific RL development within the next few years.

US and Italy both have the same goals - 1) re-unification of top leagues. 2) Introduction and growth of junior leagues. 3) Building pathways to semi-pro comps for their top talent. Perhaps encouraging trades where top Italian and US players spend a couple of yrs improving their game in Aus and Eng, in return for middle-ground semi-pro players improving the domestic leagues of Italy and US.

Lower than that, obviously improving local comps and aiming for WC entry.

2017 WC should be a 16 team, 4 pool (Same super pool format as 2013 but with 4 teams in C and D) event.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I don't see why not. Perhaps not as a full time time but a specialised team that can play outside of official tournaments and whatnot.

Would be fantastic for development and public interest.

What would it develop? Why would we take backwards steps from such a positive looking WC with half-baked ideas like a combined PI team? If they beat NZ in a one-off, who gives a f**k? What have they actually achieved? Nothing.

Who would be interested? Some Aussies might think it's a good idea, but i can't see Samoans and Tongans being anywhere near as enthused as if they were playing separately. And building off the back of this WC, with cracking matches from every Island team, it is not that much of a stretch to think that people might watch games involving these countries in future. The passion, tribalism and skill on display is what Rugby League is all about.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
the first thing on the planning sheet should be a 6 team pacific cup..

png
tonga
samoa
fiji
cooks
usa..


this could actually be played during origin..

split into 2 groups of 3...have 3 double headers,during origin 1,2 &3, to get the group games out the way...then a final after the NRL grand final...
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
the first thing on the planning sheet should be a 6 team pacific cup..

png
tonga
samoa
fiji
cooks
usa..


this could actually be played during origin..

split into 2 groups of 3...have 3 double headers,during origin 1,2 &3, to get the group games out the way...then a final after the NRL grand final...

Agreed. Except. Play Round 1 in the ANZAC Test weekend. and the final on Origin 3 week.
 

parrawentyfan

Juniors
Messages
731
Long-term here...20-30 years. We need more than 2 pro comps. NZ and France are most likely for 3 and 4.

NZ should be aiming to separate out from the NRL and form their own pro league, based around strong brands already in existence in the future (eg, Once NZ has strong arguments for having 3-4 sides in the NRL, eg Warriors and Orcas already in - Christchurch / 2nd Auckland / Hamilton etc knocking on door) then it can form its own 8 team pro league. Could then potentially include island sides or assist in creation of an island wide comp.

Could mount a similar argument for France. Get Catalans, Toulouse going well in SL plus 1 or two others knocking down the door - should look at breaking away. Could invite teams from Barcelona, Italy etc if feasible by then.

This would form one part of the equation, improving the competitiveness of tier 1.

Most important is getting the tier 2 sides to play regularly. It is a great start that we have about 10 or so sides all on a similar playing field - ie the minnows in this WC, plus maybe Lebanon. Making the most of regional comps is important in this aspect to keep costs down.
 

clarency

Juniors
Messages
1,217
What would it develop? Why would we take backwards steps from such a positive looking WC with half-baked ideas like a combined PI team? If they beat NZ in a one-off, who gives a f**k? What have they actually achieved? Nothing.

Who would be interested? Some Aussies might think it's a good idea, but i can't see Samoans and Tongans being anywhere near as enthused as if they were playing separately. And building off the back of this WC, with cracking matches from every Island team, it is not that much of a stretch to think that people might watch games involving these countries in future. The passion, tribalism and skill on display is what Rugby League is all about.

It could develop the players from the Island nations as they would be playing with their best of the best. Going up against and potentially over coming Aus/NZ could do wonders for having more players choose the smaller nations over the big ones. Not to mention pulling down conceptions that the 'big 3' are the only competitive sides.

Note the use of the word could. I'm not saying its a good idea, I'm saying it's an idea worth experimenting with.

The immediate dismissal of anything new backed up with nothing more than your own opinion is something I really hope isn't shared with the RLIF.
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
20,283
Why can the PI teams combine every 2 years to tour NZ/Australia and then GB and France? Or at least combine only to qualify for the 4 Nations and other times play as separate nations only, similar to the GB and Irish Lions tours
 

expansionist

Juniors
Messages
827
Good thoughts and good discussion.

I hope with every part of my being that this RLWC actually changes some perceptions of the role of international RL. It should be the pinnacle of our game, and should be recognised as the major vehicle for future growth in emerging markets.

The fundamental statement is: We need more internationals

We need more games with more nations with MORE access to players.

As it stands at the moment without any back up a lot of these countries playing in this RLWC will have NO games at full strength until the next WC. This has to change.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Why can the PI teams combine every 2 years to tour NZ/Australia and then GB and France? Or at least combine only to qualify for the 4 Nations and other times play as separate nations only, similar to the GB and Irish Lions tours
Why don't all the European teams combine and play as 'Europe'? Why don't Australia and New Zealand combine with the Pacific Islands to create 'Oceania'? Why don't England, France, USA and Australia combine and become 'Western Hemisphere'?
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
17,114
Good thoughts and good discussion.

I hope with every part of my being that this RLWC actually changes some perceptions of the role of international RL. It should be the pinnacle of our game, and should be recognised as the major vehicle for future growth in emerging markets.

The fundamental statement is: We need more internationals

We need more games with more nations with MORE access to players.

As it stands at the moment without any back up a lot of these countries playing in this RLWC will have NO games at full strength until the next WC. This has to change.

This.

And having the Pacific Test matches during the rep weekend is a great idea, and I hope they continue with this.

This World Cup could or should be a turning point into developing these minor nations.

Whilst the top 5 nations, Australia, NZ, England, France and PNG continue to develop, we need look into other areas as well.

We've seen how Fiji are improving with their talent, and having the likes of Joey and Fittler getting people over to Australia to play in the NRL is a fantastic idea.

As mentioned with Scotland and Ireland, they need to look at their domestic competitions and hopefully one day they'll have a team in the English competitions.

The International game continues to get better.

Who wouldve though 20 years ago, we would have Italy, Cook Islands and USA in the Rugby League World Cup.

Also other nations who arent competing in this world cup, the other day I saw on Youtube a match between Canada and USA, which attracted around 7-8,000 people. Pretty damm good if you ask me considering the sport was virtually unknown for a while there.

And I think last year's match between Thailand and Phillpines was quite successful and are thinking of having it again next year.

The future looks bright for our International game.
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
17,114
I think we've actually had an Oceania Vs Europe match before but that was in the 80s. Basc

From memory Oceania wouldve had Lewis, Sterling, Roach, O'Connor, Dean Bell, McGahan.

Europe wouldve had, Schofield, Hanley, Gregory, and a few French players.

Basically it was Aus, NZ, PNG combined Verses Great Britain and France.
 

Diesel

Referee
Messages
20,283
Why don't all the European teams combine and play as 'Europe'? Why don't Australia and New Zealand combine with the Pacific Islands to create 'Oceania'? Why don't England, France, USA and Australia combine and become 'Western Hemisphere'?

I know it's dissolved now but the Great Britain team was no different than a combined PI team when playing in WC's or downunder so it's not an uncommon concept.

A combined PI team touring Europe would be more competitive and draw bigger crowds than if they were single developing nations then while playing in the Southern Hemisphere, emerging nations comps or WC's revert back to single nations
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
I know it's dissolved now but the Great Britain team was no different than a combined PI team when playing in WC's or downunder so it's not an uncommon concept.

A combined PI team touring Europe would be more competitive and draw bigger crowds than if they were single developing nations then while playing in the Southern Hemisphere, emerging nations comps or WC's revert back to single nations
It was totally different since Great Britain (or the UK) is a sovereign nation, whereas 'Pacific Islands' is not. Regardless, GB doesn't exist anymore, for a reason.

Nobody would want to see a Pacific Islands team, it would do nothing for anyone except send the sport backwards and be one more idiotic thing that we'd have to remove/reform as soon as possible.

I don't understand why so many people struggle to understand international sport. It's a contest between two nations, not regions, not clubs, not made-up fantasy teams or anything else. Introducing more non-national entities just f**ks everything up and takes us further away from where we should be.
 
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juro

Bench
Messages
3,802
I've never been so excited about international rugby league as I have been during this last week. We really need to capitalise on this fantastic tournament and do whatever we can to maintain the momentum!
 

RHCP

Bench
Messages
4,784
British & Irish Lions was a massive moneymaker for the ARU and certainly didn't harm England, Ireland, Scotland or Wales. Obviously not the same history in RL, but it shows sides like that can work in a one-off tour situation.

I would wholeheartedly disagree with entering a Pacific Islands side into World Cups, Four Nations, etc., but the concept of a Pacific Island barbarians side shouldn't be instantly ruled out if there's a potential for each individual nation to gain something from it.
 

Kurt Angle

First Grade
Messages
9,650
I've never been so excited about international rugby league as I have been during this last week. We really need to capitalise on this fantastic tournament and do whatever we can to maintain the momentum!


The next 4 years of the international calender I believe are locked in, so there isn't much we can do about it, other than build up for the 2017 WC in Oz/Nz.

The last world cup, whilst not in the same day to day exictement this one has generated, and least left international rugby league with a bit of goodwill. The one has grown on that, and as I have stated, has demonstrated that international games offer something no ther game, even SOO can offer.

This world cup should leave a good taste in people's mouth and have people anticipating more international RL.

That means better preparation, particularly the NZ team for ANZAC games, and the ANZAC game being played all over the place. Perth should be primed for it in either 2014 or 2015 for example.

Likewise, the Samoa/Tonga game was a success that clearly need to be repeated, and Fiji/PNG added in. That's 4 rep games over that weekend when adding in city/country.

More than anything, pump up the next 4 years, the RFL in particular should have learned about what triggers media responses from this world cup, the organisers have hit all the right buttons.

But I think in 2019 the right move is;

end of season Oceanic cup with say;

Pool A
Australia
Tonga
Fiji

Pool B
NZ
Samoa
PNG

5 week tourney

and a European Championship with

England
France
Wales
Qualifier

4 week tourney

synchronised for the Euro tournament to start a week later, so both finals are played on the same weekend, maximising interntaional exposure at all times.

These are cheap and easy steps, whilst putting us in a plac we haven' been for a long time, if not ever.
 
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