Would you sign Aaron Woods?

[macavity]

Exactly.

The Tigers problems run a lot deeper than if they have a star fullback or not. It is a shame for them (and for him, not being a 1 club player removes some shine from a player's legacy IMHO), but they'll have to do what every other club has to when they lose a player, and find a replacement.

If the team knows Cleary is in charge, and they can unlock some long term potential from Brooks, and fill in the gaps in the roster (they need more high quality players across the board, rather than a few super stars), they can turn thing around. Cleary has shown he can do it in the past, and he is starting well at the Tigers too, in my opinion.

It is painful for fans of a club when they go through these times, but for a neutral, I will get joy from watching them pull themselves up with hard work and clever decisions. It is part of sport, watching players, coaches, and teams grow, and I think the Tigers will grow and add a lot to the NRL under Cleary.

There is this fallacy that non-power clubs can improve by recruitment.

It just isn't the case any more - TPAs have ruined that.

Witness the Dogs and Broncos signing everyone of quality available while already over the cap - and the likes of Newcastle unable to sign anyone while far below.

 

[wibble]

There is this fallacy that non-power clubs can improve by recruitment.

It just isn't the case any more - TPAs have ruined that.

Witness the Dogs and Broncos signing everyone of quality available while already over the cap - and the likes of Newcastle unable to sign anyone while far below.

I know you are feeling burned by the system at the moment, and I sympathise. And I agree with most of your sentiments about the unfairness of the NRL.

But the Tigers can improve, and can do it with smart recruitment.

The Sharks managed it, and we have no special advantages over the Knights or Tigers.

There was some luck, and some gambles, but we did recruit our way to a pretty decent squad, and coaching and cohesion have probably helped each "ok" recruit become a great contributor.

We got Fifita, Lewis, Barba, Heighington and Ennis as "rejects". Lewis was "headhunted" by Flanagan when struggling at a struggling club, as he knew he could provide a professional example for the squad.

We took a punt on Graham getting better, Panthers didn't want to lose him, but didn't want to match our offer.

Similarly we punted on a kid, Bird, who went on to be a great rookie.

Maloney was crucial, he was on the market and we put in a good offer for him. Townsend wanted to come back to us for family reasons but has kicked on well.

These were all pretty solid recruiting decisions.

Then we turned Feki (from junior warriors squads), Beale (fringe and unwanted at Dragons), Prior (same as Beale, people laughed when we got him), Bukuya (travelled to Warriors, then back to us when he didn't set the world on fire in NZ), and Tagatese (another jorneyman) into pretty decent first graders.

Leutele and Capewell have come through from interstate and have been great for us, and Holmes also but through our junior ranks and doing great. Brailey now seems to be going well from our juniors.

So we didn't really recruit any superstars (other than Maloney, but he wasn't really chased that hard by other clubs, and he was virtually a swap for Carney position/cap wise, but definitely an upgrade), just some good/talented players who became great, and some unwanted/juniors from elsewhere who have kicked on well.

There was some "luck", but also look at who we went through- Pommeroy, Beau Ryan, Jeremy Smith (great for us but Lewis was a like replacement), Ayshford, Robson, Matt Wright, Johno Wright, De Gois, Mick Gordon, John Morris, Gardner, Gibbs, Stapleton, Kyle Stanley, Mitch Brown etc.

Most those guys put in, but really the only established great players we bought (and didn't keep) from these were Carney (on his 18th chance, and he blew it) and Jeremy Smith (and Gordon was an established solid player). We also got those great "rejects" I listed earlier, but look who we had to go through to get there!

We just cycled through players that weren't good enough, slowly getting upgrades, and our squad now is nothing like, say our 2014 squad (with a few crucial players the same), and is also considerably stronger.

 

[Life's Good]

There is this fallacy that non-power clubs can improve by recruitment.

It just isn't the case any more - TPAs have ruined that.

Witness the Dogs and Broncos signing everyone of quality available while already over the cap - and the likes of Newcastle unable to sign anyone while far below.

I hear what you are saying. I think most would agree or have agreed the 'power clubs'(that term sh*ts me like The Big 4)have the advantage but if you look at the Broncos & Dogs they haven't won any more comps that Newy in the last 10 years so it hasn't exactly done anything other than line the pockets of the players and their managers.

 

[macavity]

I know you are feeling burned by the system at the moment, and I sympathise. And I agree with most of your sentiments about the unfairness of the NRL.

But the Tigers can improve, and can do it with smart recruitment.

The Sharks managed it, and we have no special advantages over the Knights or Tigers.

There was some luck, and some gambles, but we did recruit our way to a pretty decent squad, and coaching and cohesion have probably helped each "ok" recruit become a great contributor.

We got Fifita, Lewis, Barba, Heighington and Ennis as "rejects". Lewis was "headhunted" by Flanagan when struggling at a struggling club, as he knew he could provide a professional example for the squad.

We took a punt on Graham getting better, Panthers didn't want to lose him, but didn't want to match our offer.

Similarly we punted on a kid, Bird, who went on to be a great rookie.

Maloney was crucial, he was on the market and we put in a good offer for him. Townsend wanted to come back to us for family reasons but has kicked on well.

These were all pretty solid recruiting decisions.

Then we turned Feki (from junior warriors squads), Beale (fringe and unwanted at Dragons), Prior (same as Beale, people laughed when we got him), Bukuya (travelled to Warriors, then back to us when he didn't set the world on fire in NZ), and Tagatese (another jorneyman) into pretty decent first graders.

Leutele and Capewell have come through from interstate and have been great for us, and Holmes also but through our junior ranks and doing great. Brailey now seems to be going well from our juniors.

So we didn't really recruit any superstars (other than Maloney, but he wasn't really chased that hard by other clubs, and he was virtually a swap for Carney position/cap wise, but definitely an upgrade), just some good/talented players who became great, and some unwanted/juniors from elsewhere who have kicked on well.

There was some "luck", but also look at who we went through- Pommeroy, Beau Ryan, Jeremy Smith (great for us but Lewis was a like replacement), Ayshford, Robson, Matt Wright, Johno Wright, De Gois, Mick Gordon, John Morris, Gardner, Gibbs, Stapleton, Kyle Stanley, Mitch Brown etc.

Most those guys put in, but really the only established great players we bought (and didn't keep) from these were Carney (on his 18th chance, and he blew it) and Jeremy Smith (and Gordon was an established solid player). We also got those great "rejects" I listed earlier, but look who we had to go through to get there!

We just cycled through players that weren't good enough, slowly getting upgrades, and our squad now is nothing like, say our 2014 squad (with a few crucial players the same), and is also considerably stronger.

That was before. IMO the last time it could happen before the TPAs have exploded - you guys were hit up the butt by a rainbow by getting great value out of quality "unwanted" players.

Says a lot that we have the mastermind of that premiership trying to do the same for the Knights and unable to sign anyone. The landscape is very different and getting more polarised by the year.

 

[macavity]

I hear what you are saying. I think most would agree or have agreed the 'power clubs'(that term sh*ts me like The Big 4)have the advantage but if you look at the Broncos & Dogs they haven't won any more comps that Newy in the last 10 years so it hasn't exactly done anything other than line the pockets of the players and their managers.

Made a lot of finals, some grandfinals. They haven't been able to get over the line, but they have never been far away.

Contrast that with the likes of the Knights and Tigers in particular - One lucky prelim each in the past 10 years?

The Knights have made the finals TWICE in the past 10 years - once out in the first round with a squad Smithy (the scrub whisperer) built, and another an arsey run from 7th to get flogged in the prelim with the so-called greatest coach of all time (LOL) - only to fall in a heap the year after with a similar squad, then absolutely fall apart the year after.

There is simply no comparison - unless there are changes in the system, the divide between the haves and have nots is going to continue to widen.

At least we look like having competition for the spoon next year.

 

[insert.pause]

Wasn't this 'big 4' just some lazy media tag created? Really it was 4 guys off contract trying to secure their future. No different to anyone else. It just had extra spice that they were managed by the same bloke and all at the same club and in pretty high demand.

How were any of these guys different to Jack Bird? If you want to have a crack at anyone, try the Kieran Foran sweepstakes. Flying all over the place trying to secure a new deal, 3 games into his Warriors career. That is something truly extraordinary.

fair points, I think those players you mention have at least carried themselves better publicly, after the game against parra Moses joked during an interview with fox about which dressing room he will return to, it's just disrespectful. I also don't like the way they have seemingly separated themselves from all the issues that have plagued the club over the years, just washing their hands of it all and using it as an excuse to go elsewhere.

I can see where you are coming from with Foran, but I also think the Warriors knew they were probably only getting him for one season, despite their effort in getting him registered.

 

[Danish]

I know you are feeling burned by the system at the moment, and I sympathise. And I agree with most of your sentiments about the unfairness of the NRL.

But the Tigers can improve, and can do it with smart recruitment.

The Sharks managed it, and we have no special advantages over the Knights or Tigers.

I agree that the Tigers are in no worse a spot to find success than the sharks. The knights are another matter, however.

The knights have absolutely no power at all at the negotiating table. They are from a city that few want to live in and have zero corporate ties to make up for that shortcoming with TPAs.

The only teams kinda comparable to them are the Cowboys and the Raiders, although the Raiders are a financial powerhouse and the Cowboys lucked into the perfect storm that allowed them to get Thurston all those years ago which can then act as a tremendous draw card for other players.

Honestly can't see the knights ever having success again unless another tradie from the area strikes gold

 

[Vic Mackey]

Wasn't this 'big 4' just some lazy media tag created? Really it was 4 guys off contract trying to secure their future. No different to anyone else. It just had extra spice that they were managed by the same bloke and all at the same club and in pretty high demand.

How were any of these guys different to Jack Bird? If you want to have a crack at anyone, try the Kieran Foran sweepstakes. Flying all over the place trying to secure a new deal, 3 games into his Warriors career. That is something truly extraordinary.

Moses was paid on potential for 4 years. We let go Austin and TMM as the club invested in him to be the long term 5/8. Apart from half a dozen games at the end of last year he has generally been poor. He talks it up more then anyone I've ever seen who has achieved so little. The club had a huge offer for him to stay, he doesn't accept it, then throws a hissyfit when they withdraw it and demands to be released when our other half is injured. He then puts in the worst 40 minutes I've seen from a Tigers half since Braith graced the field against the team he is going too and jokes after the game that he doesn't know which dressing room to go too.

You can see my thoughts on woods a few pages back but as club captain the guy has been a complete disgrace. He is now my most hated ever Tiger before Glenn Morrison and Ben Teo.

Tedesco was the only guy who ever came out and said that he's first preference would be to stay at the club. He then said that the off field shit is taking its toll and the stronger clubs appeal to him because of that. He has also continued to put in every week. Whilst I'm cut over him going he's the only one I still have some respect for.

 

[davi]

Here's the reasoning why Woods left...........


Tired of being one-man show at Wests Tigers, Aaron Woods jumped at the chance to join Bulldogs pack

AARON Woods had become tired of being the one-man show up front for the Wests Tigers, and the chance to join one of the most feared forward packs in the front was too irresistible.

Woods had privately expressed to club officials on more than one occasion the need to chase after a top-quality experienced front-rower to help him in the early battles.

Adam Blair came and went, as did Marty Taupau, while Balmain great Steve Roach urged the club to chase after Sam Moa when he came off contract at the Sydney Roosters last season.

There was even more disbelief when the Tigers released their 200cm Holden Cup player of the year Taniela Paseka to Manly at the start of the season.

It’s also understood Woods has also received little feedback from Tigers hierarchy the past month, despite the club publicly declaring the Leichhardt local was a priority signing.

Woods has always run for more metres than any other Tigers prop, and while his average metres gained is down to 136m this season, it is still well clear of Jesse Sue (94m), Tim Grant (91m) and Ava Seumanufagai (87m).

At Canterbury, Woods’ best mate David Klemmer has averaged 152m this season, while skipper James Graham and Aiden Tolman have amassed 117m and 115m respectively.


Bursting on to the scene in 2011 when the Tigers fielded gun props Todd Payten, Bryce Gibbs, Gareth Ellis and Keith Galloway, Woods’ has had little help since.

Opposition teams have also realised the best way to limit Woods’ attack is to target him in defence.

Canterbury heavyweight Sam Kasiano admitted they would adopt the tactic at ANZ Stadium on Sunday.

“He starts their sets with his big carries, we have to manage him, he has a good engine on him, but we have to try and keep moving him around,’’ Kasiano said.


Roach is good friends with Woods and said the club could have made life easier by recruiting a big-name prop to share the workload.

“I’m not having a go at the blokes who are there, they’re doing their best, but we need genuine front-rowers,’’ Roach said.

“You’ve got Jesse Sue there, but he’s a backrower.

“I’ve been saying for five years we need an experienced bloke to help Woodsy.

“When a guy like Sam Moa came on to the market last season, they should have went straight after him. They’ve since bought Chris McQueen, another backrower.’’

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...k/news-story/4c71bf1b7a44fe2988d7e0904876d82a

 

[wibble]

I agree that the Tigers are in no worse a spot to find success than the sharks. The knights are another matter, however.

The knights have absolutely no power at all at the negotiating table. They are from a city that few want to live in and have zero corporate ties to make up for that shortcoming with TPAs.

The only teams kinda comparable to them are the Cowboys and the Raiders, although the Raiders are a financial powerhouse and the Cowboys lucked into the perfect storm that allowed them to get Thurston all those years ago which can then act as a tremendous draw card for other players.

Honestly can't see the knights ever having success again unless another tradie from the area strikes gold

I agree that one other advantage Sydney clubs have is Sydney (though that can also be a disadvantage if you are a small fish in a big pond), and that the Knights are in a big hole.

But it is not insurmountable, and is not particularly different from other eras.

Wests were perennial strugglers, Souths too until recently, Raiders fans have for years despaired they will never come good, and be an attractive joint, yet now they are.

I don't see Auckland or Melbourne as inherently attractive for Sydney/Brisbane based players.

So the only negotiating power the Knights have, is money (and yes, they have to compete with TPAs, but not every player on the market will be snapped up by Brisbane, or have TPAs), and first grade positions (which are a limited resource that no club can have more of than any other). It is hard to have instant, top 4 success. So they need to build, like all the rest of us struggling clubs.

It's not like the Sharks just avoided, in 2015 and 2016, an era in which strugglers will never recover, but every other era there was hope. It is not so much worse now than it was in 2014.

And it is only in retrospect that the "rejects" we got turned out to be such good propositions.

When we got Andrew Fifita, he was only "ok", by most standards. Heighington was "ok", and some still consider him barely first grade, though what he does for us is amazing. Prior was laughed at by most people. Ennis was good, but "over rated" and going to us for a retirement plan. Most people thought the Dogs got the best of the Lichaa/Ennis swap. Townsend wasn't rated and still isn't by many. Beale wasn't well regarded (and still isn't by many). Barba was rejected and down on form.

Lewis and Maloney were our two "good" signings, and neither was a Bird/Woods/Tedesco style bidding war, they weren't that chased.

The rest came through and developed from being at the club (Graham was a great prospect, but developed into a hard edged forward with us, and joined some time ago).

So 1 good youngun (Graham), 2 good players (Lewis/Maloney), and 5 or 6 first graders who were "ok" but became good. Recruited over a number of years.

Teams need 2-4 "solid" players per year, good coaching, good board room, and a great player once the squad is decent and competitive and attractive. "Gus's 3 year plan"

 

[Walt Flanigan]

Sucks for the Tigers to lose Tedesco but having a clean slate isn't such a bad thing. Gives Cleary a chance to build the team he wants.
Worked for us.

 

[Perth Red]

Yeh Tedesco is the real loss out of those three. Roosters must have chucked some good money at him.

 

[Danish]

I agree that one other advantage Sydney clubs have is Sydney (though that can also be a disadvantage if you are a small fish in a big pond), and that the Knights are in a big hole.

But it is not insurmountable, and is not particularly different from other eras.

Wests were perennial strugglers, Souths too until recently, Raiders fans have for years despaired they will never come good, and be an attractive joint, yet now they are.

I don't see Auckland or Melbourne as inherently attractive for Sydney/Brisbane based players.

So the only negotiating power the Knights have, is money (and yes, they have to compete with TPAs, but not every player on the market will be snapped up by Brisbane, or have TPAs), and first grade positions (which are a limited resource that no club can have more of than any other). It is hard to have instant, top 4 success. So they need to build, like all the rest of us struggling clubs.

It's not like the Sharks just avoided, in 2015 and 2016, an era in which strugglers will never recover, but every other era there was hope. It is not so much worse now than it was in 2014.

And it is only in retrospect that the "rejects" we got turned out to be such good propositions.

When we got Andrew Fifita, he was only "ok", by most standards. Heighington was "ok", and some still consider him barely first grade, though what he does for us is amazing. Prior was laughed at by most people. Ennis was good, but "over rated" and going to us for a retirement plan. Most people thought the Dogs got the best of the Lichaa/Ennis swap. Townsend wasn't rated and still isn't by many. Beale wasn't well regarded (and still isn't by many). Barba was rejected and down on form.

Lewis and Maloney were our two "good" signings, and neither was a Bird/Woods/Tedesco style bidding war, they weren't that chased.

The rest came through and developed from being at the club (Graham was a great prospect, but developed into a hard edged forward with us, and joined some time ago).

So 1 good youngun (Graham), 2 good players (Lewis/Maloney), and 5 or 6 first graders who were "ok" but became good. Recruited over a number of years.

Teams need 2-4 "solid" players per year, good coaching, good board room, and a great player once the squad is decent and competitive and attractive. "Gus's 3 year plan"

I agree that the Sharks managed to find the perfect recipe of recruitment and development, but you aren't going to come across those success stories often enough to keep financially struggling clubs like the knights afloat.

I think you are also underestimating just how big a win the Maloney buy was for your club. I honestly place my club letting him go all over a single additional year on a contract as the single biggest recruiting bungle in the history of the sport. Seriously, thats all it was. Maloney wanted 3 years, and we said no. Sharks came to the party with a 3 year deal and he was off. Thats a once in a generation deal right there.

I think you are also still underestimating the location factor. If you can get at least the same money (usually more once TPAs come in) and get to live in a big metropolitan city with lots to do like Sydney, Brisbane, or Melbourne, why would you ever go to Newcastle?

Their best and only real chance IMO is basically what they've done with Ponga. Throw a crazy money at a wet behind the ears rookie to blow all other offers out of the water, make the term long enough to give enough time to build some loyalty/love for the area, and hope he delivers on his potential. Then once you have 1 superstar you can use them to try and lure some others

 

[Parramatta1947]

Tedesco is the one the Tigers will miss but the others.....could be the start of good things for that club. They have money to spend and they can build just like Canberra did.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

Roach wants front rowers. What a surprise.

 

[Clifferd]

Woods wants to play alongside decent front rowers. Wonder how Ava, grant, Sue etc sit with that because imo they are doing better than that pillow woods.

 

[papabear]

When we got Andrew Fifita, he was only "ok", by most standards. Heighington was "ok", and some still consider him barely first grade, though what he does for us is amazing. Prior was laughed at by most people. Ennis was good, but "over rated" and going to us for a retirement plan. Most people thought the Dogs got the best of the Lichaa/Ennis swap. Townsend wasn't rated and still isn't by many. Beale wasn't well regarded (and still isn't by many). Barba was rejected and down on form.

Fifita was damaging for the tigers, far better then ok. Tigers fans were telling me they need to save front row money to sign a big deal for woods, what a f**king waste of cash, imo from watching the tigers very closely, fifita has always been a better player then woods, far better player.

Sometimes homers can fall into the trap of thinking players were average until they got to their club.

 

[papabear]

Woods wants to play alongside decent front rowers. Wonder how Ava, grant, Sue etc sit with that because imo they are doing better than that pillow woods.

I agree, Suemenfengai is the best prop you guys have...

 

[Life's Good]

Here's the reasoning why Woods left...........


Tired of being one-man show at Wests Tigers, Aaron Woods jumped at the chance to join Bulldogs pack

AARON Woods had become tired of being the one-man show up front for the Wests Tigers, and the chance to join one of the most feared forward packs in the front was too irresistible.

Woods had privately expressed to club officials on more than one occasion the need to chase after a top-quality experienced front-rower to help him in the early battles.

Adam Blair came and went, as did Marty Taupau, while Balmain great Steve Roach urged the club to chase after Sam Moa when he came off contract at the Sydney Roosters last season.

There was even more disbelief when the Tigers released their 200cm Holden Cup player of the year Taniela Paseka to Manly at the start of the season.

It’s also understood Woods has also received little feedback from Tigers hierarchy the past month, despite the club publicly declaring the Leichhardt local was a priority signing.

Woods has always run for more metres than any other Tigers prop, and while his average metres gained is down to 136m this season, it is still well clear of Jesse Sue (94m), Tim Grant (91m) and Ava Seumanufagai (87m).

At Canterbury, Woods’ best mate David Klemmer has averaged 152m this season, while skipper James Graham and Aiden Tolman have amassed 117m and 115m respectively.


Bursting on to the scene in 2011 when the Tigers fielded gun props Todd Payten, Bryce Gibbs, Gareth Ellis and Keith Galloway, Woods’ has had little help since.

Opposition teams have also realised the best way to limit Woods’ attack is to target him in defence.

Canterbury heavyweight Sam Kasiano admitted they would adopt the tactic at ANZ Stadium on Sunday.

“He starts their sets with his big carries, we have to manage him, he has a good engine on him, but we have to try and keep moving him around,’’ Kasiano said.


Roach is good friends with Woods and said the club could have made life easier by recruiting a big-name prop to share the workload.

“I’m not having a go at the blokes who are there, they’re doing their best, but we need genuine front-rowers,’’ Roach said.

“You’ve got Jesse Sue there, but he’s a backrower.

“I’ve been saying for five years we need an experienced bloke to help Woodsy.

“When a guy like Sam Moa came on to the market last season, they should have went straight after him. They’ve since bought Chris McQueen, another backrower.’’

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...k/news-story/4c71bf1b7a44fe2988d7e0904876d82a

Woods isn't coming out of this well. Basically slams his team mates as the reason he wanted out. FFS, his role as captain is to lift his team yet you would barely see a whimper out of him behind the goalposts after a try was scored. No loss I reckon. Teddy on the other hand......

 

[Clifferd]

I agree, Suemenfengai is the best prop you guys have...

Honestly if I was the officlals woods has spoken to privately I would tell said players exactly what he said. It's a thing called back stabbing that doesn't go well in today's society

What a complete dog