WWE - then and now?

[Bulldog Force]

Guys,

I'm sure you've all noticed this, but WWE's continuous downsizing is, in my opinion, crap to say the least.

I mean, in the last few years, we've seen the ECW go (ok, perhaps not the biggest loss), but on top of this, we've had the Womens title go, the World Heavyweight Championship go, the World Tag Team Championship go, along with the Hardcore and European titles, and in my opinion, it's only a matter of time before the US title goes (in favor of the IC title).

Let's look at the shows now.

I used to like it when it was Raw vs Smackdown. We'd have the draft that was AWESOME, and now that's gone. Despite this, all the big names still appear on Raw mainly, not SD. What about commentary? Remember back in WM 2008 we'd have 4 announce tables? The Spanish announce team as well as Raw, SD and ECW? Now we're only down to 1 English announce table, and JR, the best in the business, isn't even there anymore.

What about the ring itself... remember when Raw and Smackdown used to have the red and blue ropes... making it look a lot more modern and appealing? Now we're down to the ugly lifeless whites ropes. These little things make a big difference.

Who knows which genius decided to get rid of the Elimination Chamber, one of the most exciting PPV's of all time. What now... only 1 MitB briefcase match? The least they can do is make 1 for the WHC as well. Again, this is another victim of them downsizing the titles.

There's NXT which is a great way to find and develop new talent (no argument there), but everything else that WWE has wasted in my opinion, isn't very good at all.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

Interesting points BF

I agree with most of them with the exception of the EC and MiTB ideas.
I prefer ONE mitb match on WM, and one EC match a year (if that) as they make them more epic.

Similar to Hell in a Cell matches once in a few years.

 

[redvscotty]

Why have 2 main HW titles, 2 main tag team titles?

'I'm not that good, so I'll go for the other titles available'

It makes sense to have one of each when there is no brand split. I personally hated the brand split and believe RAW should be used to hype the HW title, Intercontinental title and the Womens Title (Diva's is a stupid name and the title belt sucks dick). Add in storylines with big wrestlers (Wyatt/Undie, HHH/Sting, etc..)

Smackdown should be used to push the Tag Titles, U.S. Title, and feuds lower down the pecking order (Think Ziggler vs. Shaemus or similar).

Main Event should be exclusively used to showcase talent from NXT in a WWE 'proper' environment. I don't mean have Zayn Vs. Owens or Balor Vs. Whoever but more Rhino Vs Big E or Bo Dallas Vs. Bull Dempsey. They should use Main Event to build stars that have just moved up, or stars that are floundering a bit. Create a Main Event only belt if you need to, to give transitioning super stars something to aim for. Rather than have the flop we currently have with the Ascension, or Bo Dallas where he goes well for a bit, gets injured and goes completely off the radar. Adam Rose/Axel would do well dropping back for this type of program, but going back as far as NXT would not be a good move. Keeps them in the eyes of the public (I believe this is shown on TV in the states?) but not far enough back to the web only show.

NXT should still be used as is, to showcase new signings and have them build up followings before moving on to Main Event. In some cases I would move stars straight to Smackdown (Not RAW) but these would be few. I could see Owens going straight to Smackdown but not Zayn (who I think will be more popular in the long run mind you).

If I were the WWE I would be utilising facebook and other social media to properly continue feuds. Ambrose running down Barrett and stealing his belt, then taking the video and uploading it to facebook from his own account laughing at Barrett.

Then Truth doing the same thing and posting it to his facebook account laughing at both of them. Barrett comes onto RAW the following week and chews out both until they walk out or something. Keeps the interest up all week.

 

[alien]

the womens title was replaced by the divas title - so no big deal

there only needs to be one tag team division

i think they should keep both u.s. title and intercontinental title - i havent heard of them getting rid of one or merging them

there should be 1 undisputed champion - so i didnt have a problem with them merging the wwe championship with the world heavyweight championship

i liked the Elimination Chamber and i think they should bring that back

i agree that the ropes should be red on raw, and blue on smackdown

 

[Bulldog Force]

Well I guess people are going to disagree on this constantly.

I just think that it was better having 2 big shows Raw and SD, as opposed to one behemoth (Raw) and SD, which has in the past 3 years, diminished to a nuffy show I cbf watching anymore.

I remember the 08 draft where Triple H was moved to SD was an unbelievable result. It was set to make SD nearly as big as raw (considering they also had UT and a few others). Now... I seriously cannot watch SD, it's THAT boring.

 

[Valheru]

You do make a couple of good points BF, I would never have thought 7-8 years ago I would miss the brand split but looking back, it is a better model than what they currently have. The match ups do get a bit stale after a year but that is what the draft is for, you only need 2 or 3 big names to switch and you have your program for the year. The single branded PPVs are good for their business model at the moment IMO, they aren’t collecting $40 per month from most people now that the network is here so there is no need to put the biggest drawing matches on each PPV and they can afford to have top stars not appear every month.

I would like to see RAW drop to 2 hours as well, 3 hours is overkill and should be reserved for PPV. As far as championships go, have a world title on each show, tag titles on one, IC on the other, women’s non one and if they want a third title on the other show make it something unique i.e. not the equivalent of the IC, maybe bring back the cruiserweight to try and replicate X division or something.

Also, get rid of these stupid themed PPV’s (Royal Rumble aside of course), it makes the gimmick matches feel contrived and outside of the natural evolution of a feud. Use the hell in a cell or ladder match for example whenever it makes sense to a feud.

NXT should stay as it is as the “3rd brand” but there should be no cross promotional tie in with RAW/Smackdown.

 

[Shaun Hewitt]

I agree 100% Val

During the brand split I thought it was a bad idea, however looking back, I think I preferred it. I do think though they needed to tweak it just a little, as in keep them separate brands. Too often superstars ended up working both shows. To me, you'd only see the brands interact during the RR, Survivor Series, WM and maybe have Summerslam as a mixed PPV. They should literally treat each other as direct competition, with the exception of the big four PPVs. This ensures that when a superstar does return, or the draft happens that its a big deal.

As for Titles, on Raw I'd have the WHC (I know the 'E were keen of having the WHC on SD, and WWE title on RAW, but to me the WHC should be bigger than the 'E title) err, so yeah on Raw, I'd have the WHC, World Tag Titles, IC Title and a Cruiserweight title. Aim for an X-Div scene, or a cruiserweight division ala wCw. On SD have the WWE title, WWE Tag titles, US Title and either the Hardcore title or Womens title (perhaps both?)

I also agree that the shows should be 2 hours, and PPVs 3. You need your PPVs to be big deal, worth splashing out for.

I think Val, you and I have the same thoughts regarding gimmick matches.

 

[Big Pete]

The brand split was a good idea when it was introduced but it wore out it's welcome.

The WWE is struggling right now but I don't think the brand split would fix it's core issues.

 

[DB]

I think the reason that they are struggling is lack of competition.

 

[Big Pete]

Agree but that competition has to be external.

Otherwise they'll run into the same problems as last time where they try to put all their eggs into the Raw basket...

which ends up either being the John Cena or Roman Reigns basket.

 

[Iafeta]

Wrestling is evolving... but I don't necessarily like it, and haven't liked it for some time. One thing that used to be great in WWF and other promotions was the tag division. Now its just an epic joke, and a tag team is a 3-4 month proposition waiting for one of them to turn on each other. Its so predictable at times.

 

[Big Pete]

I don't understand why Pro Wrestling doesn't embrace the tag component either - it's the one advantage it has over MMA.

Mind you, it hasn't been the same since the 80s. Sure every few years a couple of good tag teams emerge but it isn't the same as having the likes of the Road Warriors, Rock n Roll Express, Midnight Express, the British Bulldogs etc going around.

 

[Bulldog Force]

Let's not forget APA!

 

[Valheru]

Sadly, I can't ever see there being major competition for WWE again.

 

[Bulldog Force]

TNA was looking like they were closing the gap a few years ago when they had Hulk Hogan and a few others... now they're not even on the horizon in WWE's rear-view mirror!

 

[DB]

Really I think the only time that TNA looked like they were going to be legitimate competition is oround the 05,06,07 stage, when Christian came on board, and Kurt Angle, and had the best Womens Division in the world. Unfortunately absolute shithouse booking brought them back to earth.

 

[canberra_raiders2k2]

Yeah that's the time i thought they had some momentum.

i remember Christian at that time had picked up just before the rumble and it seemed like he was more over then cena.

This thread should be about TNA. The WWE has been terrible for ages. At least TNA had the capacity to provide a better form of wrestling entertainment.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Really I think the only time that TNA looked like they were going to be legitimate competition is oround the 05,06,07 stage, when Christian came on board, and Kurt Angle, and had the best Womens Division in the world. Unfortunately absolute shithouse booking brought them back to earth.

Listening to Bischoff + Hogan's bullshit will do that...

 

[Big Pete]

The problem with TNA is that everytime they brought in a Christian, Kurt Angle, Mick Foley, Hulk Hogan etc. instead of using their star power to draw awareness to their guys and their product, they just made the entire company about them.

Mick is my favourite wrestler of all-time, but his reign was every bit as painful as Hogan/Bischoff's run.

The difference is that Hogan and Bischoff had done such a good job of generating hype that I think fans got it in their minds that TNA were going to use it to start fresh and build the likes of Styles, Joe, Morgan, Daniels, Roode, Abyss etc.

Instead they basically got the sixth season of Hogan Knows Best with Brooke and Garrett playing sports entertainer.

 

[Iafeta]

I didn't mind Christian being thought of as a centre-piece, because unlike Foley, Hogan etc, he could genuinely still go at that point. And working with him would help put others over anyhow if it was a well worked program. Kurt Angle I had no problem with either. Remember when they brought in Flair, Hogan, Bisch... it was kind a like, here's a bunch of big names, and we'll work the rest out as in what we do with them a bit later on, mmm k?

The last hot period for tag wrestling was '98 in WCW IMO. Harlem Heat and the Steiner Brothers were the last bastion. Just after Starrcade '97 it all came down with a crashing thud when Scott turned on Rick, and teams like the Faces of Fear and Public Enemy (established teams) really never got pushed to a point of being a viable opponent for Harlem Heat, so Booker T carried on in singles, and really started getting over big time in his program with Benoit. WCW I thought did try again in '99 with a few Freebird type rule teams, like the Jersey Shore Triad, the Revolution, and the Filthy Animals (some of the best matches in '99 are the Triad v Benoit Malenko v Raven Saturn), but I think they missed a Harlem Heat or Steiner Brothers genuinely being the lockdown foundation of the division to cement it all.

One thing I think that has changed massively in pro wrestling is the lack of prestige based around the Titles. There seems to be these overly complex storylines. I think its borne out of the Attitude era where, as Eric Bischoff said, their market feedback studies suggested people wanted to suspend their belief by going "hey I know thats staged, but... wait, was that meant to happen?" type moments. I think what they also though forgot, and still forget, is the right champion, and the right way of promoting blokes who are just after the title, and putting on 5 star matches to sell the value of that title still can equal dollars. One major reason WWF beat WCW is because their WHC matches were about 47,534,433 miles ahead, WCW had the more elaborate storylines, but there was genuine competition at the top and they worked their tails off by and large for it.