Your Samoan team so far?

[roopy]

no, its without the samoan raised players that would make us look more like the afl cup (not that we are anywhere near as low as that). we would have a team of only aus/nz raised players representing a different country, pretty much what the afl have. we are a genuine international sport played in over 30 countries, they play seriously in 1, maybe casually in 5.

They give countries 100k to show up for their mickey mouse cup and actually spend money on minor countries. The only reason we are ahead of them is because we have multi cultural western sydney coming to the party to provide us with a few hundred grandparent rule players.
Without that, AFL would be towelling us up in International as well as everything else.

 

[roughyedspud]

was'nt one of the samoan wingers that played against the USA a domestic player?

 

[bender]

They give countries 100k to show up for their mickey mouse cup and actually spend money on minor countries. The only reason we are ahead of them is because we have multi cultural western sydney coming to the party to provide us with a few hundred grandparent rule players.
Without that, AFL would be towelling us up in International as well as everything else.

Not so sure about that. No matter which way you look at it, Australia, England, France, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea are legitimate international sides. In all honesty, Fiji and Russia are both well established and respectable lower level international sides and certainly capable of being classified of playing rugby league at a respectable level. Still, i agree with what you are saying. Despite what many of the idealists (and we would all love to see it) say, the only way that international league will ever take off is through the GP rule. I would love to see the next world cup featuring decent (close to NRL or at least low level super league/high level NL1! sides from all the above teams, plus USA, Italy, Greece, Malta, Serbia, Samoa Tonga etc. I think that if that happened, it would be possible to build enough interest from a TV point of view to make a first rate international qualifying program, which (coupled with one nation for life or at least proper enforced stand downs) would see the GP rule help create a vibrant international scene that Rugby league would not be able to dream of for close to 50 years without it.

And, despite what the idealists think, exciting competive gp games are the only way to get TV dollars into internationals. Low level domestic based teams getting thrashed will never be anymore than the occasional novelty interest for most fans.

 

[nadera78]

Not so sure about that. No matter which way you look at it, Australia, England, France, New Zealand and Papua New Guinea are legitimate international sides. In all honesty, Fiji and Russia are both well established and respectable lower level international sides and certainly capable of being classified of playing rugby league at a respectable level. Still, i agree with what you are saying. Despite what many of the idealists (and we would all love to see it) say, the only way that international league will ever take off is through the GP rule. I would love to see the next world cup featuring decent (close to NRL or at least low level super league/high level NL1! sides from all the above teams, plus USA, Italy, Greece, Malta, Serbia, Samoa Tonga etc. I think that if that happened, it would be possible to build enough interest from a TV point of view to make a first rate international qualifying program, which (coupled with one nation for life or at least proper enforced stand downs) would see the GP rule help create a vibrant international scene that Rugby league would not be able to dream of for close to 50 years without it.

And, despite what the idealists think, exciting competive gp games are the only way to get TV dollars into internationals. Low level domestic based teams getting thrashed will never be anymore than the occasional novelty interest for most fans.

I take it I'm one of the "idealists" you're talking about?

I don't have a problem with the GP rule at all. In fact I welcome it with open arms. What I object to is a national team being entirely made up of them. There must be a connection to the country they claim to be representing, otherwise they cannot possibly be legitimate. Samoa pitched up at the original qualifying comp with no domestic players at all. None. And the RLIF ignored it. Other countries, like the Cooks, Lebanon, USA used GP players but alongside domestic guys. not only this, but they have consistently done a lot of work to promote and develop RL in those countries.

Samoa on the other hand seem to only turn up when a big comp is about to be played, and when they think a wadge of cash is on offer. Where were all of these 'Samoan' players two years ago? Even a year ago for some of them? they just turn up now because it suits them to do so.

Geoff Carr and Colin Love have gone out of their way, including breaking their own rules, to ensure that Samoa get to the main event because they think a lot of Samoans in Sydney will turn out for their matches. Sorry, but that is no way to run a competition. It should be the best teams, period.

 

[bender]

I take it I'm one of the "idealists" you're talking about?

I don't have a problem with the GP rule at all. In fact I welcome it with open arms. What I object to is a national team being entirely made up of them. There must be a connection to the country they claim to be representing, otherwise they cannot possibly be legitimate. Samoa pitched up at the original qualifying comp with no domestic players at all. None. And the RLIF ignored it.

While i dont agree with the 6 players rule, a rule is a rule and while it is in, it should and must be enforced. Was it? You say no, but if i recollect, (and i admit i could be wrong) but a domestic player is defined as being not just a player who has played in a domestic competition but also a player who has played in an "A" national team fixture wasnt it? If so, didnt the majority of the samoan team actually play in that Samoa v Tonga fixture in campelltown a while back and therefore qualify for the world cup and wasnt that the purpose of that fixture?

Other countries, like the Cooks, Lebanon, USA used GP players but alongside domestic guys. not only this, but they have consistently done a lot of work to promote and develop RL in those countries.

So what, Russia are absolutely light years ahead of three sides you mentioned, but they are not good enough to make the world cup at this stage. All of the sides you mentioned got to play in the world cup and had their chance to succeed. They were not good enough. Some like Lebanon and USA went tantalisingly close, but they need to lift their game. Others like Fiji, actually caused an upset and qualified on their own merits. If they continue the hard work, the above countries may do the same next time. But you need to understand that the world cup finals are not a place to show case the best domestic structures and hardest working officials, it is for the teams who have proved they have the best rugby league players.

Samoa on the other hand seem to only turn up when a big comp is about to be played, and when they think a wadge of cash is on offer. Where were all of these 'Samoan' players two years ago? Even a year ago for some of them? they just turn up now because it suits them to do so.

Doesnt this tell you that there should be more 'big comps' played so that they will turn up every year? The world cup (and other events) should be aimed to attract Players. If the international program attracts players at the top level, it is reasonable to assume that the side will gain a better profile in their country and it will gain more players at the domestic level. For an example of this, look what a close to all aussie London side has done to the london domestic scene in the past 10 or 15 years. Hopefully a celtic crusaders side will do the same.

Geoff Carr and Colin Love have gone out of their way, including breaking their own rules, to ensure that Samoa get to the main event because they think a lot of Samoans in Sydney will turn out for their matches. Sorry, but that is no way to run a competition. It should be the best teams, period.

That is a riduculous suggestion. It is widely acknowledged that from a fans in Sydney point of view, Lebanon are the team that the establishment wanted in. It did not happen, because they were not quite one of the best teams. The best team on the field won through. Not the team with the best brownie points for setting up a domestic structure. Or the best administration or anything else. That is the way it always should be.

Personally, i think that handicapping any country is ridiculous. You cannot expect a side like samoa to beat one of the big 3 if they are forced to play 5 amateur players. How would Australia go in the world cup, if they were forced to play amateur players (or New Zealand or England). If australia were made to pick 5 Victorian, Perth, South Australian, or Northern Territorian or Tasmanian players it would certainly create the same argument, that it would help bring these australian states up to speed. Why arent they forced to make the same concessions? And the Kiwis local comp could certainly use the exposure of 5 locals as well, why dont we penalise them too? I am sorry, but the only way to increase international football, is to have competive international teams that make money and use that money to fund domestic development. The ultimate goal of domestic development is to enhance the countries senior team. How each nation does that should be up to each individual nation, as each individual nation has different circumstances.

 

[Brownie.Kougari]

Jest all you like, but the fact is Samoa have been given all the help in the world to qualify for this comp. They didn't take one single domestic player to the original qualifying event, probably because they didn't have any to take. The ARL also kindly arranged for all the up and coming NRL players with Samoan heritage to put their names forward and play for 'Samoa' against 'Tonga' a couple of years back.

Never mind about the countries that do actually get involved in RL development, and with their own money, own sponsors,own players. Let's allow a bunch of kiwis and aussies to enter playing for the land of their grandparents. And then see them disappear next year when they don't get any funding from the RLIF, just like last time.

If we go by your opinion we have no competition in Lebanon...

They've said they genuinely want to make league strong in Samoa so I say good on 'em.

Also: how many of the socceroos actually live & play in Australia?

 

[hutch]

Personally, i think that handicapping any country is ridiculous. You cannot expect a side like samoa to beat one of the big 3 if they are forced to play 5 amateur players. How would Australia go in the world cup, if they were forced to play amateur players (or New Zealand or England). If australia were made to pick 5 Victorian, Perth, South Australian, or Northern Territorian or Tasmanian players it would certainly create the same argument, that it would help bring these australian states up to speed. Why arent they forced to make the same concessions? And the Kiwis local comp could certainly use the exposure of 5 locals as well, why dont we penalise them too? I am sorry, but the only way to increase international football, is to have competive international teams that make money and use that money to fund domestic development. The ultimate goal of domestic development is to enhance the countries senior team. How each nation does that should be up to each individual nation, as each individual nation has different circumstances.

but without the 6 domestic players countries such as samoa would have no incentive to even play rugby league, let alone increase the standard of their domestic comp. they are lucky they so many expats live in aus/nz, it makes their rugby league team look good when rugby league in their country barely exists. without the locals they are not an international team, they are a heritage team. im not saying the aus/nz raised samoans arent proud to be of samoan origin, but they are not as samoan as somebody who is actually from samoa.

 

[bender]

but without the 6 domestic players countries such as samoa would have no incentive to even play rugby league, let alone increase the standard of their domestic comp.

Not at all. If those 6 players are good enough they will be selected. At the moment it is probably fair to say none are. It is a matter for the selectors of that nation to decide how many locals are included and what is in their own best interests and what will help Samoa provide the best short term and long term side. IMO, Samoa (domestically) would have far more incentive to play rugby league if they have a successful international side which they could have, that makes the semi finals of this world cup, and gets a decent financial profit from it, than they would from fielding 6 local players but getting thrashed by the better teams. The interest in Samoa will come from a competive international team (and the league team could be even more competive than the Union team which is a further advantage) and the finanancial dollars. As a result of this, i would be astounded, (if we assume that the world cup is a success and Samoa gets a regular income from a well planned international program), if Samoa does not establish a solid domestic competition similar to Fiji's with the 6 local players earning their merits (albeit with most probably being relocated to Australia to play for nrl clubs) within 3 or 4 years.

they are lucky they so many expats live in aus/nz, it makes their rugby league team look good when rugby league in their country barely exists.

Is it not the forcing of the selection of locals that is trying to do exactly what you are ridiculing, ie trying to make their rugby league team look good when rugby league in their country barely exists.

without the locals they are not an international team, they are a heritage team.

No, they are the strongest team of Samoans available. With the heritage players, they are not a team representative of the best Samoa can put on the paddock, they are the best Samoan team combined with the best Samoan domestic talent. It would be like making Queensland play against NSW with 6 players who play from the local QRL run competition. Great for the QRL but not great for the Qld vs NSW concept, which is what we are really trying to promote and succeed here.

im not saying the aus/nz raised samoans arent proud to be of samoan origin, but they are not as samoan as somebody who is actually from samoa.

I believe a player is either Samoan or not. If they are not Samoan, they should not be in the team, end of story. If they are, they are eligible. There should be no such thing as a half samoan sort of eligible for some spots.

 

[hutch]

Not at all. If those 6 players are good enough they will be selected. At the moment it is probably fair to say none are. It is a matter for the selectors of that nation to decide how many locals are included and what is in their own best interests and what will help Samoa provide the best short term and long term side. IMO, Samoa (domestically) would have far more incentive to play rugby league if they have a successful international side which they could have, that makes the semi finals of this world cup, and gets a decent financial profit from it, than they would from fielding 6 local players but getting thrashed by the better teams. The interest in Samoa will come from a competive international team (and the league team could be even more competive than the Union team which is a further advantage) and the finanancial dollars. As a result of this, i would be astounded, (if we assume that the world cup is a success and Samoa gets a regular income from a well planned international program), if Samoa does not establish a solid domestic competition similar to Fiji's with the 6 local players earning their merits (albeit with most probably being relocated to Australia to play for nrl clubs) within 3 or 4 years.


Is it not the forcing of the selection of locals that is trying to do exactly what you are ridiculing, ie trying to make their rugby league team look good when rugby league in their country barely exists.



No, they are the strongest team of Samoans available. With the heritage players, they are not a team representative of the best Samoa can put on the paddock, they are the best Samoan team combined with the best Samoan domestic talent. It would be like making Queensland play against NSW with 6 players who play from the local QRL run competition. Great for the QRL but not great for the Qld vs NSW concept, which is what we are really trying to promote and succeed here.


I believe a player is either Samoan or not. If they are not Samoan, they should not be in the team, end of story. If they are, they are eligible. There should be no such thing as a half samoan sort of eligible for some spots.

i think we look at things completely differently, but would both do a hell of a lot better than the current admin.

 

[roughyedspud]

over time,and i'm talking 20+ years,the 6 local player rules should be changed to a 6 heritage player rule..

 

[nadera78]

While i dont agree with the 6 players rule, a rule is a rule and while it is in, it should and must be enforced. Was it? You say no, but if i recollect, (and i admit i could be wrong) but a domestic player is defined as being not just a player who has played in a domestic competition but also a player who has played in an "A" national team fixture wasnt it? If so, didnt the majority of the samoan team actually play in that Samoa v Tonga fixture in campelltown a while back and therefore qualify for the world cup and wasnt that the purpose of that fixture?

Doesnt this tell you that there should be more 'big comps' played so that they will turn up every year? The world cup (and other events) should be aimed to attract Players. If the international program attracts players at the top level, it is reasonable to assume that the side will gain a better profile in their country and it will gain more players at the domestic level. For an example of this, look what a close to all aussie London side has done to the london domestic scene in the past 10 or 15 years. Hopefully a celtic crusaders side will do the same.

Personally, i think that handicapping any country is ridiculous. You cannot expect a side like samoa to beat one of the big 3 if they are forced to play 5 amateur players. How would Australia go in the world cup, if they were forced to play amateur players (or New Zealand or England). If australia were made to pick 5 Victorian, Perth, South Australian, or Northern Territorian or Tasmanian players it would certainly create the same argument, that it would help bring these australian states up to speed. Why arent they forced to make the same concessions? And the Kiwis local comp could certainly use the exposure of 5 locals as well, why dont we penalise them too? I am sorry, but the only way to increase international football, is to have competive international teams that make money and use that money to fund domestic development. The ultimate goal of domestic development is to enhance the countries senior team. How each nation does that should be up to each individual nation, as each individual nation has different circumstances.

The ARL-organised Test match between Tonga and Samoa was a full test match. the ARL said as much at the time. When people asked what they were doing organising a game for those two countries they said it was a full test and they were doing it to help the game in those two countries. Samoa does not have an 'A' team or any junior rep teams, so none of those players could qualify as domestic under those rules. But the RLIF ignored it entirely.

The development of RL in London is more to do with an awful lot of bloody hard work on the ground from volunteers. Having a pro side at the top is useful, but active, day to day support and tangible help from them has only really started in the last couple of years. All of the ground work was done by the amateur clubs themselves. Just like it has been in Lebanon, Cooks, Fiji, etc. But, oh no, not in Samoa!

Carr and Love looked at the tonnes of Polynesians coming through in Aus and decided they wanted Tonga and Samoa to be at the RLWC because they thought they could get a few decent games out of them for that one tournament. They don't care about what happens the year after, or ten years after. It's entirely focused on getting a few close results in that five week period, and that's just bullsh*t. It should be the best RL-playing countries there, not the beat Aussies with ancestral links to some islands.

 

[fobsta]

Toa hopefuls to vie for World Cup spot(Fasavalu Europa Rose) Tuesday 15 April 2008

Local rugby league players performing the war dance during the South Pacific Games last year.
Samoa’s top local league players will soon be vying for the five available Toa Samoa spots for October’s World Cup.

At the end of this month, the Samoa Rugby League (SRL) will be holding a nine-aside tournament, General Secretary of the SRL Fritz Tuiavi’i confirmed yesterday.

Tuiavi’i said the tournament would be used to test the fitness and speed level of the local players.

Meantime, no local player has secured a position in the team.

During last year’s repchage matches, where Toa Samoa defeated Lebanon and USA to qualify for the World Cup, five local players were apart of the team.

Tuiavi’I said none of them were guaranteed a position in Toa Samoa.

“At the moment no player has been guaranteed, even the former five Toa Samoa players,” he said.

“We are still hunting for those players through our tournaments, but we will select them before October.

“The final test for our local players will be during our seven week 13-a-side tournament that will be in May,” said Tuiavi’i.

Tuiavi’I said Toa Samoa selection would be strict, and that it was vital for the local players to understand the “rules of the game”.

The local players will be reviewed on this during the final trial.

“In this competition we will analyze the communication and the strategic thinking of each player.”

Toa Samoa’s World Cup squad must include five local players, in order for the team to be recognized by the rugby league world body.

Toa Samoa is pooled together with arch-rival Tonga and Ireland.
http://www.samoaobserver.ws/sports/SPNews/0408/1508sp003.htm

 

[deluded pom?]

Toa hopefuls to vie for World Cup spot(Fasavalu Europa Rose) Tuesday 15 April 2008

Local rugby league players performing the war dance during the South Pacific Games last year.
Samoa’s top local league players will soon be vying for the five available Toa Samoa spots for October’s World Cup.

At the end of this month, the Samoa Rugby League (SRL) will be holding a nine-aside tournament, General Secretary of the SRL Fritz Tuiavi’i confirmed yesterday.

Tuiavi’i said the tournament would be used to test the fitness and speed level of the local players.

Meantime, no local player has secured a position in the team.

During last year’s repchage matches, where Toa Samoa defeated Lebanon and USA to qualify for the World Cup, five local players were apart of the team.

Tuiavi’I said none of them were guaranteed a position in Toa Samoa.

“At the moment no player has been guaranteed, even the former five Toa Samoa players,” he said.

“We are still hunting for those players through our tournaments, but we will select them before October.

“The final test for our local players will be during our seven week 13-a-side tournament that will be in May,” said Tuiavi’i.

Tuiavi’I said Toa Samoa selection would be strict, and that it was vital for the local players to understand the “rules of the game”.

The local players will be reviewed on this during the final trial.

“In this competition we will analyze the communication and the strategic thinking of each player.”

Toa Samoa’s World Cup squad must include five local players, in order for the team to be recognized by the rugby league world body.

Toa Samoa is pooled together with arch-rival Tonga and Ireland.
http://www.samoaobserver.ws/sports/SPNews/0408/1508sp003.htm

Yes, that would come in pretty useful :sarcasm:

 

[fobsta]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Monty has to earn World Cup spot[/FONT]

(Fasavalu Europa Rose) Wednesday 30 April 2008​

Monty Betham will have to earn his position in Toa Samoa for the upcoming Rugby League World Cup in Australia, says Samoa Rugby League.

Former Kiwi star turned professional boxer, Monty Betham is yet to be confirmed for Toa Samoa for the upcoming World Cup in Australia.

Samoa Rugby League President, Peter Paul, told the Observer Sports that Betham has not contacted the SRL about his availability.

“We have not been contacted and I don’t know anything about it, aside from an article we read about it,” said Paul.

“There has been no discussion about him playing either.”

The article Paul was referring to was published in the Samoa Observer two weeks ago, about Betham deciding to put his boots back on for Samoa.

General Secretary Fritz Tuiavi’i said no one is guaranteed a position in the World Cup squad except for Captain Nigel Vagana.

“All players will be picked on their performance even our local players,” he said.

“If Monty wants to play it’s fine but he has to perform and make sure his fitness is up top scratch.”

“Vagana is at the moment guaranteed because he guided our team in our previous matches, but still he has to maintain his level of fitness,” said Fritz.

Five local players will be selected for the Toa Samoa World Cup squad in October in order for the team to be recognized in the tournament.

The selection of the five boys will be during the SRL one day 9-a-side tournament at the end of this month.

Followed by that will be the 13 man team domestic competition in May, the final trial for the locals to perform.

“We will be looking at their performance and also their fitness and skills,” Fritz said.

http://www.samoaobserver.ws/sports/SPNews/0408/3008sp004.htm
​

 

[hutch]

​

​

Five local players will be selected for the Toa Samoa World Cup squad in October in order for the team to be recognized in the tournament.​

i thought the minimum number of domestically produced players was 6 per squad?​

The selection of the five boys will be during the SRL one day 9-a-side tournament at the end of this month.​

so they are choosing players for the world cup from a 9's tournament? what a joke!

 

[screeny]

Vagana et al spoke a lot about wanting to help set up Samoan RL. I would love, absolutely love, to hear what has been done since qualifying for the WC in November.

So far all we've heard is the odd news item about WC preparations, not any long term plans to establish RL as a genuine Samoan sport.

 

[Polynesian Warrior]

Vagana et al spoke a lot about wanting to help set up Samoan RL. I would love, absolutely love, to hear what has been done since qualifying for the WC in November.

So far all we've heard is the odd news item about WC preparations, not any long term plans to establish RL as a genuine Samoan sport.

This is where Samoa rugby league problem is . Vagana can help Samoa in any way but if Vagana and co don't make an efford to move back to Samoa . Everything he achieve or done would only benefit some rugby union players/club/villiage because they would end up back there if they don't follow it up . I've seen this first hand .

 

[girvie]

Many of these guys have been mentioned before, but in Rugby League Week they have an article about the Super-League based players who have pledged their allegence to Samoa.

They name: Ali Lauitiiti, Motu Tony, Joe Vagana, Francis Meli, Willie Talau, Iafeta Paleaaesina, Harrison Hansen, Jamahl Lolesi + Nigel Vagana and Tony Puletua.

They said the Super League guys had a meeting up a few weeks ago.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

lol Joe Vagana - he probably wouldnt get a start in local Fox Memorial Compeition back home in Auckland.

 

[mean_maori_mean]

I might tell my samoan mates who play footy to go back to the islands for a few months and they could be at a world cup.