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Zodiac (the new movie)

St. Brett

Juniors
Messages
1,312
I'm fresh off the batch from seeing Jake Gyllenhaal in Zodiac.

I wish I had of took my pad and pen to take down notes.

From memory this is what I wanted to say first.

Bookman from Seinfeld was in it.

As was the secretary from American Psycho I think.
The love interest lady with the blonde hair.
As soon as she was introduced to the story line my mind stopped concentrating on the film and started wondering where I'd seen her from.
Remember in America Psycho Patrick Batemans secretary? I think it was her in Zodiac.
I remembered her voice and face.

What else did I note?

Before the movie started a preview came on for a film called 'Knocked up' or something, and 2 people are having a convo over dinner and she goes, "I have something to tell you. I'm pregnant."
And the dude goes, "f**k off!"
If I wasn't so mature I would've burst out laughing in the cinema.
I had to contain myself and act mature you see.

Zodiac........yer.....my reccomendation is to brush up on the story line before seeing this film first. Read about briefly first before seeing the film.
I haven't read about Zodiac since...oww, the 90's so I was a little stale on the story line.

Now, according to this film it's based on actual events...so does that say Zodiac was named after all?
I believe his I.D. remained annonymous to this day.
At the end of the film I noted something interesting in the credits.
It said, and I state.......DNA was taken from a Zodiac letter only recently and it didn't match this Arthur Lee character.

I like to think that Jack The Ripper and Zodiac were the only two killers who were never revealed. It's a real mystery ain't it?
All through that film all I could think to myself is......wonder who he was? If I knew his name and seen his face I'd be satisfied.
You think to yourself if you could see all the case evidence you could solve it yourself.

I also thought to myself....where was the F.B.I. in this case? Aren't they the brainiacs who can crack this sh*t?

(See the other night on Discovery they brought in a new name for The Jack The Ripper case)

When you think about it......if Zodiac was never captured, could it be possible that he's an old man today and possibly watched that film?
And will this film motivate some nut-case to start a new era Zodiac copycat?

Didn't this film throw it back to the old days of Clint Eastwood?
All while watching that film I was expecting Detective Calahane, or who'd he play in Tightrope? was it Brock? I was expecting Clint Eastwood to walk in at any scene and solve it with a good old .357.
The film actually did confirm this in a scene at the pictures where they watched Dirty Harry.
So, go figure.
I enjoyed it.

It actually did make me want to watch Dirty Harry.
(One of my personal favorites)
I liked the Hellraiser guy as The Scorpian Killer in Dirty Harry.

"Sing damn you all....I'll kill all of your mothers!"

How cool was The Scorpian Killer?
The scene in the bottle shop where he smashes a bottle over the head of that bottle shop owner holding a gun.

Zodiac though.......Jake Gylleenhaal seems to go missing in long stretches in some scenes.
He comes into his own at the end of the film though when he turns detective.

The guy from Weird Science....what's his name? Robby Downy Jr? He reminded me of Samuel L Jackson in Jurrasic Park. He mummbled a lot through the film while smoking a cigarette and it was hard to make out what he was saying.

The bit where Donnie Darko goes to that artists guys house was friggin' creepy. I thought that guy was the killer because he drove the same black car as the killer.
But down in the basement in that scene was creepy as, man. Frig that.
I thought Gyllenhaal was gonna get shot.

Does the film confuse itself with all the paper work? It doesn't really let the viewer in on it.
Seems to lose the audience at times with all the notes and paper work.
I had trouble following some of it.

The start scene is a bit brutal with the gun shots to the two kids in the parked car.
It's getting a bit too graphic.

And speaking of graphic...the most brutal scene is that part where Zodiac ties up them two by the river side in the day time and then knifes them both.
That was so graphic the blade going in her stomach.

I sort of liked this film because........excuse me for gloating....but, umm, I've actually walked some of the streets in S.F. where Zodiac hunted and I my heart rate pumped hard when the camera flew over The Golden Gate.
I've been over that don't mind me saying.
S.F. is the most beautifulest city of a night time sitting by the bay in front of Alcatraz.
Never seen nothing like it.

It's a shame Angus and Robertson didn't have any books listed for Zodiac in its shop, as I enquired after the film, but to no avail.
I'd like to read up on it a little as all my Zodiac material is missing, I think.
All that came up on their computers was Star Signs 'n astrology.
Apparently you need an author to go with the book.

The part where they get a lead on the killer 'Arthur Lee' midway through the film you want to believe it's him. (They interview him at his works and he's weird and wearing a Zodiac watch and hinting at sh*t, you just know it's him) You actually knew they had their guy but he gets off later.

From my knowledge.......I'd say he was a vet, ok?
They mention this right off the batch.
Zodiac happened 'round what, 68? Didn't Nam finish 'round then?

Look, I could get into this and type out hours of bullsh*t speculating on who he was but we'd be here all day.

My final comment on this is......he was a soldier from Vietnam who was exposed to sh*t (agent Orange?) came back to the U.S. probably manipulated a psycho pension, (giving him time to play) financed his games with the pension and victims money and lived for the game of the thrill of the hunt.
How he played and toyed with authorities gives away a bit about his age and immaturity.
He took great pleasure in seeing them swallow his scrammbled messages.
He could have told them anything and they would have believed it.
Was he inspired by Son of Sam? And did The Night Stalker look up to him years later?
Normally-

Nevermind.

Zodiac was 8/10

We were in cinema 8. It wasn't cinema 11. New movies normally get cinema 11 The Cin-stadium where it's big.
We had this small box piece of sh*t small screne and pop corn was $5:50 for small and I only ate arf.

P.S. Hot 'n Spicey Bonelss KFC is here and my chicken pieces were pink and hot as.
Pink chicken?
 

St. Brett

Juniors
Messages
1,312
See for yourselves. That sketch below is a witnesses account of Zodiac.

Does this artists sketch of this nerdy prick look like something out of Full Metal Jacket?

killers_zodiac_logo.jpg


This guy's got military written all over him.

I think it's a great dissapointment when we find out masked killers are plain ordinary humans underneath.
Meaning.....If I ever found out Jack The Ripper was just some plain white guy who worked in a butcher I'd be dissapointed.
Keep 'em covered up. Don't reveal 'em.

zodiac1.jpg

That's how I want to remember Zodiac not some precher sunday sect member or Militia twit.

Imagine frinding out that all the members of Slipknot were just plain humans?
Catch my drift?
I don't want to see or know that Zodiac really looked like that underneath!

P.P.S. that scene where he ties up the 2 by the river in the day time doesn't add up somehow (concerning body structure)
The Zodiac in that scene looked slim and stocky not fat and tall like this Arthur Lee character.
It didn't fit concerning body shape between the 2. I dunno.
 

St. Brett

Juniors
Messages
1,312
I guess with todays age demographic this film won't work.

It's sort of like Christina Augullero doing that Candy Man song, taking it back to world war 2 days it won't work with todays audience.

You guys would probably watch some childish crap like Spiderman 3 or something eh?

No educated people I guess.

You see.....with Spiderman 3 it's all been done before.

It was just a spin off to King Kong.
Rip apart N.Y. city and ruin a few buildings.......Jurrasic Park 2 was written all over Spiderman 3.

Or....or maybe you people have no class or appreciation for good simple acting.

There was only about 5 of us in the cinema yesterday so that's dissapointing.
Wish I had of went today instead of yesterday as today it's absolutely belting down outside and there were a lot of scenes in Zodiac where it was raining and that night sky when the cabby gets shot is typical C.A. night sky with its purple hazey look.

Today......today I'm trying to contact the F.B.I. in the U.S.

There's no e-mail contact for the S.F.P.D.

I wanted to pass on something I noted yesterday.

This may be trivial but did you guys ever explore the avenue that THE ZODIAC may have been in fact, JOHN LIST aka Robert Clark?
The guy from New Jersey?
2-1-John-Emil-List.jpg

He killed those 5 people around 71.

I saw that new Zodiac movie the other day and then I checked the web for images of the Zodiac and as soon as I saw the artists sketch of what he looked like I automatically thought of John List.

http://users.skynet.be/terrorism/jpeg/killers_zodiac_logo.jpg
Look at the similarities.

Was he ever in S.F. under a different name before moving to New Jersey?

Afterall he did move from New Jersey to Virginia so traveling wasn't a problem.

P.S. I thought Anthony Edwards sounded an awful lot like Nicolaus Cage in this film too.
Wonder if there's any hidden message in an anagram with his Happy Halloween BOO message?
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
16,755
Aguilera tried to update "Candyman" for the modern audience by including lyrics about how she loves big c*cks.

btw St Brett, best poster ever.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,227
(1) The Vietnam War officially ended on April 30, 1975, with the "Fall Of Saigon".

(2) Slipknot frontman Corey Taylor also is the frontman for Stone Sour - sans mask.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
56,227
Also - "based on actualy events" doesn't mean "closely depicted account of what actually happened". It's Hollywood-sensationalism, mixed with a few facts that may or may not have been twisted to gain extra viewers.

If you want a real in-depth look at this sort of topic, you're better off reading a good book. I don't know if she wrote one about Zodiac, but Patricia Cornwell wrote a very interesting book about Jack The Ripper - and her having been a forensic scientist herself gives a unique insight into the topic.
 

Generalzod

Immortal
Messages
32,093
I can't wait to see this movie fincher is a great director (SEVEN,FIGHT CLUB) are magnificent films...
 

perverse

Referee
Messages
25,984
i'm very keen to watch this. after seeing a trailer for the movie i quickly went online and read all about the zodiac case.. the suspects.. everything. i'm definately convinced arthur lee was in fact the zodiac.. DNA or not.
 

Godz Illa

Coach
Messages
18,745
Went last night and enjoyed it. That vibe of obsession and desperation was so pungent and real that it eventually started to take a hold of me. Couldn't soak up enough facts, couldn't hear enough interviews. I've been reading up on Zodiac sh*t all day as a result. Check this btw:

http://members.aol.com/Jakewark/allen.html


Thierry Henry said:
btw St Brett, best poster ever.
lol word
 

St. Brett

Juniors
Messages
1,312
Just seen Zodiac for the 2nd time just then.

It wasn't as intense the 2nd time.

One thing that catches my attention is the body descriptions and artists sketches of the killer.

The artist sketch drew Zodiac as a skinny guy with glasses.
Then why was the main suspect fat and round?
How do you explain that?

Didn't Dermot Mulroony look like a young Ton Berenger?

This Arthur Lee Allan character doesn't fit the skinny description that the artist sketch drew.
Don't make sense.
Was there one or two more killers involved?

I'm currently reading Robert Greysmith's book right now too.

I scared myself with it last night. I don't know why I put myself through these tortures.

And another thing....the other day I punched in arthur lee allen on google and all these pictures came up on him but now they seemed to have dissapeared.
He looked kinda KKK'ish neo nazi, you know? A truch driver maybe.
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
From IMDb:

"Why are multiple actors contributed as playing "Zodiac"?

The different actors were employed to match the varied physical descriptions of the "Zodiac Killer" by eyewitnesses and surviving victims. For example, the suspect seen at the scene of Paul Lee Stine's murder was described as quite heavy, and is here played by Bob Stephenson; while the man indicated to be Zodiac (although never positively correlated with the Zodiac killings by the police) who threatened Kathleen Johns was described as rather slighter and smaller, and is here played by John Lacy.

Interestingly, John Carroll Lynch, who plays Arthur Leigh Allen, the man who's ultimately accused of the Zodiac killings by Robert Graysmith (a theory seemingly supported by the film), was not used in recreating any of the crimes of the "Zodiac Killer"."

Interesting. I don't know much about the significance of the different accounts, whether it means there was more than one person, but it was odd when one fellow negatively identified Zodiac by his voice. Oh, and good film.
 

Dragon

Coach
Messages
14,846
St. Brett said:
Just seen Zodiac for the 2nd time just then.

It wasn't as intense the 2nd time.

One thing that catches my attention is the body descriptions and artists sketches of the killer.

The artist sketch drew Zodiac as a skinny guy with glasses.
Then why was the main suspect fat and round?
How do you explain that?

Didn't Dermot Mulroony look like a young Ton Berenger?

This Arthur Lee Allan character doesn't fit the skinny description that the artist sketch drew.
Don't make sense.
Was there one or two more killers involved?

I'm currently reading Robert Greysmith's book right now too.

I scared myself with it last night. I don't know why I put myself through these tortures.

And another thing....the other day I punched in arthur lee allen on google and all these pictures came up on him but now they seemed to have dissapeared.
He looked kinda KKK'ish neo nazi, you know? A truch driver maybe.

You might be interested in Richard Kuklinski, known as 'the iceman'. He killed hundreds of people as a professional hit man. Check this interview vid out
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5740692213665972395&q=the+iceman (part 1)
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5116812489134120077&q=the+iceman (part 2)

There are more interviews with him if you do some searching. Pretty amazing story.

*edit* this is another good one with a psychologist
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=5060539626289977023&q=the+iceman

Im gonna check out Zodiac, seems like a good film going by your reports.
 
Messages
6,030
Eelementary said:
Also - "based on actualy events" doesn't mean "closely depicted account of what actually happened". It's Hollywood-sensationalism, mixed with a few facts that may or may not have been twisted to gain extra viewers.

If you want a real in-depth look at this sort of topic, you're better off reading a good book. I don't know if she wrote one about Zodiac, but Patricia Cornwell wrote a very interesting book about Jack The Ripper - and her having been a forensic scientist herself gives a unique insight into the topic.

ive have been told by the guy i worked with that has read the proper book that this film matches the book word from word

so theres been a lot of work gone into it too make it 100%
 

St. Brett

Juniors
Messages
1,312
The Ice Man? Ohhh no no no no! Not another suspect please! Anybody new you read about in the Zodiac case is the killer! They all sound good to me. You wanna believe that it's anybody who pops up.
I've never heard of The Ice Man.
He's obviously just a gangster and not a twisted demented killer. Just a contract killer is all I think.. Not deranged.

Who's this Rick Marshall character they brought in the movie recently? Was that necessary? Why confuse us with more names?

By the way, the music played in the background of this 43minute interview with Snowman is real creepy.

No more new suspects please.

I think the most likely killer was this fat guy I read about who had the movie cannister rigged to expload if opened.
Those 3 involved in that case were working in tandem. 2 killed. One wrote the letters. That might explain why all the descriptions were out of wack each time.
Another thing about trying to get a suspect on handwriting alone....if what Graysmith said was true, about the Zodiac copying handwriting from a projectial machine then how can you match him with handwriting?
And the finger print in the cab was typical Se7en stuff...cut off a finger from a victim and deliberately plant it.

If you know the story you'll be aware that they altered the description of what he looked like a second time.
First they had the skinny guy wearing the glasses looking like Full Metal Jacket.

But then the 2 who were hogtied by the lakeside, witnesses described this guy.
(I believe the below sketch IS what Zodiac looked like.

If you've read Robert Graysmith's book he'll quote that the killer was owl faced and had tight lips.
Look at that description.
composite1.jpg


I would love to get in contact with The S.F.P.D. and ask them if the artist sketch of the skinny guy with the glasses was done deliberately to make Zodiac believe they were looking for a different guy. They were on to him with the owl face sketch then deliberately changed the description to make him feel safe I believe. It's hard to explain.
Wanna know what? This stuff is addictive! It sux you in and becomes an addiction.

I actually fiddled around with The Zodiac's leftover words from one of his cipher's and came up with names and the state Montana.
Also worked out lines like please help me before I'm put back in the hospital. Or please help me before I committ more-

Graysmith's 370 coded word cipher crack is flawed with errors I believe and doesn't make sense about swallowing a pill, asshole.
It don't make sense.


But the guy with the film cannister set to explode wrote look through the neddle pines and I was flooded out recently.
The police knew this guy lived in a house surrounded by pine trees and his house was flooded.
I put all my belief in this guy.
His name used in Gaysmith's book was altered (can't think what it was now) but he sounded good to me.

And ain't it funny how Zodiac stopped when he knew the heat was on and they had pin-pointed a few real chance names?
They were on to him I believe but justice and the court system with its flimsy rules got in the way of proceedure.
Sometimes the law is fitted for criminal's benefit.

Ohhh man, I'm actually e-mailing the Valejo P.D. about the Zodiac right now.
You can go to their website and actually click on a direct link that takes you to Zodiac tips.
I'm involved....this is a blast.
How cool is this? I'm sending them my John List theory and how the 2 descriptions don't fit.

P.S. there's implications that Zodiac is British......he used the words fiddle & fart. They reckon that's a Texas saying but I think it's British. He used Happy Christmas as well.
But then in one letter says....I'm now killing your girls. Implying he's from elsewhere and has just arrived.
I like to think that when we roll over we'll find out all the answers to life because stuff like this bugs the sh*t out of you.
 
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