1st Test: South Africa v New Zealand at Cape Town Jan 2-6, 2013

[edabomb]

Alright here is the side that competes with any other Test side

Watling/Flynn
McCullum
Brownlie
Taylor
Ryder
Williamson
Ronchi
Vettori
Southee
Bracewell
Boult

Problem is getting most of them on the park for starters.

I wouldn't have McCullum opening in an ideal world but there is no room in the middle order, and plus averaging mid to high 30's as an opener for a NZer is actually really good.

I'd also consider interchanging Ryder and Brownlie.

The main problem with this side is it's a bit light on bowling so guys like Ryder and Williamson would have to fill almost 15 overs in a day, I think Ryder is good enough to fill a 4th seamer spot but his injury history is a bit of a concern with his bowling. I hope we can get something like this side on the park against England, imo it's a pretty damn good side.

Over the past 5 series Bracewell is averaging 46 with the ball (since Zimbots at home last year). He should be dropped for the next test - he's looking very ineffective.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Over the past 5 series Bracewell is averaging 46 with the ball (since Zimbots at home last year). He should be dropped for the next test - he's looking very ineffective.

Yeah I did think about that, I guess Wagner or McClenghan could take his spot if he doesn't perform in this next Test.

I still think it's a pretty handy side, that batting lineup would be one of the better ones on paper we have had for a while, combined with the best wicket keeper batsmen since McCullum and a good pace attack. Now we just need some luck/decent management to get that team out on the park.

 

[Timbo]

Seriously what happened with Wagner? He was talked up as the next big thing then dropped after one match on a dust bowl int the carribean.

He should be in there for sure.

 

[Iafeta]

Man, I'd at the very least wait to end of this series to make a decision on Flynn vs Watling. Flynn didn't even get an opportunity in the first innings, was down the other end while wickets tumbled and then in the the 2nd Watling battled hard for 40 which was good to see but that hardly seals him a spot.

Flynn will definitely be part of the second test, and his first class record suggests he should be given the England home series. That's four tests to go out and there and do what he has to do as a test bat - score centuries. If he does that, the spot is his to lose.

 

[Iafeta]

Seriously what happened with Wagner? He was talked up as the next big thing then dropped after one match on a dust bowl int the carribean.

He should be in there for sure.

Without a doubt Wagner should be there. Bracewell looks at the moment to be a classic for the "Rotation" theory. I think teams have worked him out. Its not as if he has a stellar first class record to back him up either.

There's a number of mythical favourites in New Zealand Cricket who get chance after chance but never take said chances. Jeetan Patel is one, Martin Guptill at test level is another, James Franklin is just unbelievable in how he keeps getting picked, Daniel Flynn is certainly one (but as per prior post I still think he should get the England series), at the moment Dougie Bracewell is another. McCullum is another at test level, for a bloke with his so called talent his record is very ordinary. Yet Wagner, as you say, has a very good first class record, and gets two opportunities on the West Indian dustbowls.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Without a doubt Wagner should be there. Bracewell looks at the moment to be a classic for the "Rotation" theory. I think teams have worked him out. Its not as if he has a stellar first class record to back him up either.

There's a number of mythical favourites in New Zealand Cricket who get chance after chance but never take said chances. Jeetan Patel is one, Martin Guptill at test level is another, James Franklin is just unbelievable in how he keeps getting picked, Daniel Flynn is certainly one (but as per prior post I still think he should get the England series), at the moment Dougie Bracewell is another. McCullum is another at test level, for a bloke with his so called talent his record is very ordinary. Yet Wagner, as you say, has a very good first class record, and gets two opportunities on the West Indian dustbowls.

Wait a minute, are you saying that McCullum should be dropped? :crazy: I'm guessing you don't actually think that but you did just lump him in with Patel, Guptill and Franklin.

Guptill has to go for sure.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Flynn will definitely be part of the second test, and his first class record suggests he should be given the England home series. That's four tests to go out and there and do what he has to do as a test bat - score centuries. If he does that, the spot is his to lose.

I agree completely, but if you look at that side I posted which is a chance of happening then there is only one spot available, which I'd assume comes down to Watling vs Flynn. So really it comes down to who performs best in this next Test. I think Flynn could be a solid opener for us but wouldn't disagree if Watling is given a good crack at it also.

 

[Meth]

Seriously what happened with Wagner? He was talked up as the next big thing then dropped after one match on a dust bowl int the carribean.

He should be in there for sure.

Nah, we need to persevere with Chris Martin. He's the future.

 

[Meth]

I agree completely, but if you look at that side I posted which is a chance of happening then there is only one spot available, which I'd assume comes down to Watling vs Flynn. So really it comes down to who performs best in this next Test. I think Flynn could be a solid opener for us but wouldn't disagree if Watling is given a good crack at it also.

I'd open the next test with Flynn and McCullum. Put Guptill at 5.

 

[Meth]

Without a doubt Wagner should be there. Bracewell looks at the moment to be a classic for the "Rotation" theory. I think teams have worked him out. Its not as if he has a stellar first class record to back him up either.

There's a number of mythical favourites in New Zealand Cricket who get chance after chance but never take said chances. Jeetan Patel is one, Martin Guptill at test level is another, James Franklin is just unbelievable in how he keeps getting picked, Daniel Flynn is certainly one (but as per prior post I still think he should get the England series), at the moment Dougie Bracewell is another. McCullum is another at test level, for a bloke with his so called talent his record is very ordinary. Yet Wagner, as you say, has a very good first class record, and gets two opportunities on the West Indian dustbowls.

Bracewell is there because of his surname and Hobart. He's been average since.

 

[Iafeta]

Wait a minute, are you saying that McCullum should be dropped? :crazy: I'm guessing you don't actually think that but you did just lump him in with Patel, Guptill and Franklin.

Guptill has to go for sure.

Did I say that?

Its quite clear though he is enormously overrated by those in NZC, and mostly by Brendon McCullum himself. For someone to have the profile he does, he is an immense underperformer and symbolic of blokes getting away with blue murder on the field, and off it as well. In a lot of other test countries, there is no way McCullum would have been allowed to become a test opener and give up the gloves at his whim, he'd have been asked to go back to first class level and get a load of runs. He never has to do that in NZ, because the depth is so poor. But there is no bones about it, he has not performed anywhere near the level he supposedly thinks he's at.

 

[Iafeta]

I agree completely, but if you look at that side I posted which is a chance of happening then there is only one spot available, which I'd assume comes down to Watling vs Flynn. So really it comes down to who performs best in this next Test. I think Flynn could be a solid opener for us but wouldn't disagree if Watling is given a good crack at it also.

I'll go out on a limb here mate, I don't think Jesse Ryder is pushing himself that hard to come back to international cricket. From all reports he's fairly comfortable not being part of the NZC merry-go-round, and earning bucketloads in the IPL in between. I don't think he'll play this season.

 

[Horrie Is God]

Bracewell is there because of his surname and Hobart. He's been average since.

I'm amazed to hear Bracewell hasn't kicked on..:shock:

The movement he was getting,both ways,& the aggro he showed against us in Hobart made him look a real player of the future..

 

[Fast Eddie]

Did I say that?

Its quite clear though he is enormously overrated by those in NZC, and mostly by Brendon McCullum himself. For someone to have the profile he does, he is an immense underperformer and symbolic of blokes getting away with blue murder on the field, and off it as well. In a lot of other test countries, there is no way McCullum would have been allowed to become a test opener and give up the gloves at his whim, he'd have been asked to go back to first class level and get a load of runs. He never has to do that in NZ, because the depth is so poor. But there is no bones about it, he has not performed anywhere near the level he supposedly thinks he's at.

What blue murder does he get away with off the field? It's hardly like he gave up the gloves 'on a whim', he'd been talking about doing it for a year or two beforehand, it had more to do with his body not being up to being able to keep for long periods. His knees and back are pretty shot I think.

 

[African Monkey]

Seriously what happened with Wagner? He was talked up as the next big thing then dropped after one match on a dust bowl int the carribean.

He should be in there for sure.

I don't know why he was rated so highly tbh. Having said that, he did get a raw deal from the selectors.

On the side itself, I'd keep the same team. No-one would improve our batting and although I wouldn't have picked Martin in the first place, I wouldn't drop him based on that last test.

 

[Fast Eddie]

I'll go out on a limb here mate, I don't think Jesse Ryder is pushing himself that hard to come back to international cricket. From all reports he's fairly comfortable not being part of the NZC merry-go-round, and earning bucketloads in the IPL in between. I don't think he'll play this season.

Yeah good chance that will happen, especially after what happened to Taylor.

 

[Iafeta]

What blue murder does he get away with off the field? It's hardly like he gave up the gloves 'on a whim', he'd been talking about doing it for a year or two beforehand, it had more to do with his body not being up to being able to keep for long periods. His knees and back are pretty shot I think.

Personally, I believe he was more than aware of what was happening behind the scenes recently. Hesson is more culpable in getting his pal the captaincy by hook or by crook, no doubt. Hesson is an absolute plodding cancer to NZC.

Perhaps his knees and back being shot are the reason why, again, like most New Zealand test bats, past and present, he can't go the distance consistently and tick over centuries.

Fair dinkum question - but aside from Martin Crowe, what is it with New Zealand batsmen's adversion to being top draw test bats who regularly set up chances of test match success? Why is it that we accept the mediocrity of a mid 30s average as being good enough, and 5-6 test centuries in a career being good enough?

 

[edabomb]

Nah, we need to persevere with Chris Martin. He's the future.

Martin > Bracewell. I also venture to say if McClenaghan came into the fold he'd be cannon fodder in the longer format. Doesn't seem to do enough with the ball to succeed in the longer format.

It's not ideal - but an average of 34 is definitely good enough to hold a spot in the squad. I always find it strange Martin's spot is questioned - he is about the least of our worries.

 

[Iafeta]

I'm with you edabomb. McClenaghan looks fairly average IMO.