Another thread about the history

[Willow]

Out of the last Red V meeting the issue of the Dragons history was brought up again.
In a summary of the night, this snippet made the Red V magazine:

History
The Dragons represent the history of the club as having won 15 Premierships.
Unfortunately at this stage the NRL believe the St George Illawarra Dragons premiership tally is zero. The Club is continually protesting with the NRL regarding this decision.

 

[Willow]

Good to see the club is still maintaining the rage so to speak. But protesting doesn't seem to be having much effect on the NRL.

Interesting to note that many Wests Tigers supporters are claiming their 2005 Premiership victory to be number 16. I'm not sure what the WT's Club official stance is on this but in my opinion, that is their choice to make.

And in deciding our history, it should be the Dragons choice as well.

Quite clearly Saints are keen to have a continuation of the proud premiership history. But the NRL is stubbornly sticking to the 'Middleton' plan. Strange considering that the NRL was only formed in 1998 and yet they feel the right to inherit all the NSWRL and ARL premiership records as their own.

 

[Cheesie-the-Pirate]

Quite clearly Saints are keen to have a continuation of the proud premiership history. But the NRL is stubbornly sticking to the 'Middleton' plan. Strange considering that the NRL was only formed in 1998 and yet they feel the right to inherit all the NSWRL and ARL premiership records as their own.

That's easily the best argument we have. Not to say the other arguments are weak, but I'm yet to see any convincing counter-argument to that one.

The NRL is a Joint Venture of the ARL and Super League
St. George Illawarra is a Joint Venture of St. George and Illawarra

What's the difference?

 

[drake]

That's easily the best argument we have. Not to say the other arguments are weak, but I'm yet to see any convincing counter-argument to that one.

The NRL is a Joint Venture of the ARL and Super League
St. George Illawarra is a Joint Venture of St. George and Illawarra

What's the difference?

That's 100% correct, if we are talking mergers erasing history, then all the clubs are only 7 years old.
Except for Souths who are newbies.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

No one says so and so has won 15 NRL titles, they say they've won 15 premierships.

That is either NSWRL, ARL or NRL.

 

[haha]

Out of the last Red V meeting the issue of the Dragons history was brought up again.
In a summary of the night, this snippet made the Red V magazine:

History
The Dragons represent the history of the club as having won 15 Premierships.
Unfortunately at this stage the NRL believe the St George Illawarra Dragons premiership tally is zero. The Club is continually protesting with the NRL regarding this decision.

When your two clubs sold thier souls they became one new club, why do people find it so hard to understand that a merged club is a new club?
But don't worry I believe your club will win thier first premiership this year.

 

[gorilla]

Good to see the club is still maintaining the rage so to speak. But protesting doesn't seem to be having much effect on the NRL.

I have a good protest - stitch a number 15 on the shoulder of the guernseys, and wait until the press finally asks what it is....

 

[Willow]

lol@haha. Joins up today and immediately starts trolling the forums.

I have a good protest - stitch a number 15 on the shoulder of the guernseys, and wait until the press finally asks what it is....

Great idea.
The Club definitely has a case to push for this. Makes me wonder if they're protesting enough.

 

[God-King Dean]

The NRL seem to have no problems with our history when they can hype up a big game.

 

[Slippery Morris]

St George Illawarra should be credited with 15 titles just like the Wests Tigers should be credited with 16. Let all these jokers whinge as much as they like. You can't just erase history.

That put's the Dragons 3rd behind Wests Tigers who have won 16. Good luck to them. Dragons should of been up to 20 by now but Sh#t happens.

One thing they can't take off the Dragons..........11 Years in a row. Never to be achieved by anyone.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

Oh please.

WT havent won 16 premierships no matter how you look at it.

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Quite clearly Saints are keen to have a continuation of the proud premiership history. But the NRL is stubbornly sticking to the 'Middleton' plan. Strange considering that the NRL was only formed in 1998 and yet they feel the right to inherit all the NSWRL and ARL premiership records as their own.

The NRL seem to have no problems with our history when they can hype up a big game.

Saints merging with Illawarra is an evolution as far as I'm concerned. By doing what they have, the NRL are effectively disregarding the history of each partner.

I'm hesitant to use AFL as an example, But both the Swans & Lions were originally Melbourne clubs and their original records are still considered to be part of the modern day teams. How many times did you hear "its the first Swans flag since 33 (or whenever it was)??

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

Saints merging with Illawarra is an evolution as far as I'm concerned. By doing what they have, the NRL are effectively disregarding the history of each partner.

Yet under your set-up you would simply disreguard the history of one partner?

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

Yet under your set-up you would simply disreguard the history of one partner?

No, not at all. As i said there should be recognition of both partners. For the StG-Illa club one partner had won 15 premierships prior to merger, one partner had not yet won one.

I take it your stance is that the club (JV) has won zero titles?

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

Don't be absurd that not my stance it's simple fact. It wasn't St George Illawarra that won our first title in 1941 or our last in 1979.

If you can show me where the JV club has won a premiership then I'll walk naked to Burke and back. Maybe it will happen this year and it will then be it's first and St George's 16th, if you like.

I believe currently the NRL record the history as St George 15, St Geo Ill 0 and Illawarra f**k all.

Sounds about right to me. Dont know why people are dirty with them. If I could have but one wish granted by the NRL it would be that any JV premiership be counted as two for St George, as winning a premiership with our current partners is akin to finishing first in a three-legged race when you're roped up to a quadriplegic.

 

[drake]

Don't be absurd that not my stance it's simple fact. It wasn't St George Illawarra that won our first title in 1941 or our last in 1979.

If you can show me where the JV club has won a premiership then I'll walk naked to Burke and back. Maybe it will happen this year and it will then be it's first and St George's 16th, if you like.

I believe currently the NRL record the history as St George 15, St Geo Ill 0 and Illawarra f**k all.

Sounds about right to me. Dont know why people are dirty with them. If I could have but one wish granted by the NRL it would be that any JV premiership be counted as two for St George, as winning a premiership with our current partners is akin to finishing first in a three-legged race when you're roped up to a quadriplegic.

Warning: rant.

Got to give you points for maintaining the rage Denis.

Adaptation to change isn't one of your strengths though.

I know we've had many arguments over the years, and will never see eye to eye on many topics, but do you really think that agreeing with the News Media pawns and saying that St George's run in first grade Rugby League in this country ended because they tacked on Illawarra when entering a new phase of rugby league competition is to the benefit of the club you love?

Are they clubs anymore anyway? There is so little in common these days with the way Rugby League was played and administered in the past.

St George merged with Illawarra and so now is a completed different entity, right?

What about the Super League clubs that dropped the region from their names i.e Bulldog, Sharks etc, or those that changed theirs (Easts to Sydney). They have no unbroken continuation of being Canterbury Bankstown RLFC or Eastern Suburbs RLFC.

To be honest, none of the first grade clubs are the clubs we remember from our past, even Souths are part private owned now. They are multi million dollar business ventures that evolved out of the Rugby League Football clubs. Evolution is necessary to survive, in nature and in culture. Whilst I might lament the plastic facade that is put on the game by marketing execs, I enjoy the game that rugby league has become.

Continuation of our history is necessary to keeping St George's identity alive in the NRL. As more and more teams become privatised and eradicate any tradition in their current format, we need to keep reminding the world that we are still St George, 15 premierships, 11 in a row, the Mighty Saints, the Mighty Dragons. Adopting a poor neighbor hasn't changed that, just strengthened us.

The more people deny the continuation of St George's proud history in the current Dragons form, the easier it will be to phase out all of our identity and become one of these soulless mockups like The Sharks or The Bulldogs. Imagine no St George on the emblem at all, neither the saint himself or the writing, just a little stylised dragon and the word dragons. The marketing execs would love that.

I know that you will never be a fan of the merger, and that many people feel the same.

That's your right and I wish you luck in it. I "sold out" and accepted the merger, but then again, St George isn't my greatest passion in life, it's quite a bit down the list. Number one for sports, but I don't have the luxury of prioritising sport.

The main point is: if diehards like yourself write off St George and say they are dead as a first grade team, how easy will it be for the money hungry execs to eradicate all of our tradition and history?

 

[Southernsaint]

Ahhh, bring on the Pokie Tax and the problem will solve itself!!

 

[Willow]

True. But we can't rely on that. My understanding is that even if the JV dissolved and St George owned the franchise, the club still wants to support to the Illawarra region by playing half the home games there and still maintain the St George Illawarra name.
At least that was the Club's view last year.
Anything can happen in the future but in the meantime we have to try and at least maintain and recognise the history.

 

[Follow Me Up To Carlton]

Warning: rant.

Got to give you points for maintaining the rage Denis.

Adaptation to change isn't one of your strengths though.

I know we've had many arguments over the years, and will never see eye to eye on many topics, but do you really think that agreeing with the News Media pawns and saying that St George's run in first grade Rugby League in this country ended because they tacked on Illawarra when entering a new phase of rugby league competition is to the benefit of the club you love?

Are they clubs anymore anyway? There is so little in common these days with the way Rugby League was played and administered in the past.

St George merged with Illawarra and so now is a completed different entity, right?

What about the Super League clubs that dropped the region from their names i.e Bulldog, Sharks etc, or those that changed theirs (Easts to Sydney). They have no unbroken continuation of being Canterbury Bankstown RLFC or Eastern Suburbs RLFC.

To be honest, none of the first grade clubs are the clubs we remember from our past, even Souths are part private owned now. They are multi million dollar business ventures that evolved out of the Rugby League Football clubs.

"It's the constitution, its Mabo... it's the vibe."

Evolution is necessary to survive, in nature and in culture. Whilst I might lament the plastic facade that is put on the game by marketing execs, I enjoy the game that rugby league has become.

Continuation of our history is necessary to keeping St George's identity alive in the NRL. As more and more teams become privatised and eradicate any tradition in their current format, we need to keep reminding the world that we are still St George, 15 premierships, 11 in a row, the Mighty Saints, the Mighty Dragons. Adopting a poor neighbor hasn't changed that, just strengthened us.

The more people deny the continuation of St George's proud history in the current Dragons form, the easier it will be to phase out all of our identity and become one of these soulless mockups like The Sharks or The Bulldogs. Imagine no St George on the emblem at all, neither the saint himself or the writing, just a little stylised dragon and the word dragons. The marketing execs would love that.

I know that you will never be a fan of the merger, and that many people feel the same.

That's your right and I wish you luck in it. I "sold out" and accepted the merger, but then again, St George isn't my greatest passion in life, it's quite a bit down the list. Number one for sports, but I don't have the luxury of prioritising sport.

The main point is: if diehards like yourself write off St George and say they are dead as a first grade team, how easy will it be for the money hungry execs to eradicate all of our tradition and history?

You've brought up a number of varying subjects there but the long and short of it is that St George Illawarra hasn’t won 15 premierships - St George has be proud of that and leave it be. However as I said before if you can show me black is white, night is day, then I'll start making preparations for my naked jog to Bourke.

btw - as it seems "news ltd" are held up as the source of all these ills I recommend to anyone a visit to Rebel Rockdale or "The Dragons Cave" in Wollongong, notice the various examples of merchandise with "Est 1999" or simply "99" emblasoned upon them. A mere few of the dozens of such items that have been churned out over the years and sold at official club outlets.

 

[Southernsaint]

The irony is that the Brand was established in 1998!!