ARL Misses the Boat

[Jeffles]

Many fans in RL have called for the Kangaroos to do just that to boost RL in the Pacific. The publicity of the game and the relative closeness (compared to playing the Islands separately) would be a posiitve step for RL in the region as it emerges from the catastrophe of the RLWC 2000.

The ARU has now gone and done the right thing. The Wallabies have announced they will play a Test in July against a Combined Pacific side (Tonga, Fiji and Samoa).

Let's hope the ARL sees the light and follows suit.

 

[DIEHARD]

It's a damn shame. But you can't expect our leader to do something without being shown. One wonders if the RLWC would exist if the RUWC wasnt right under their noses!

Maybe this will show the ARL it's a good idea and we can do it as well. Im sure we could field a formitable Pacific side. Kangaroos are playing USA, why can't we play Pacific Islands?

I'd like to see a tri series taking place while the Roos, Kiwis and Lions are competing for the Tri Nations. Maybe PNG v Pacific v Australian Aboriginals or Junior Kangaroos.

 

[dimitri]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


arl letting us down again

 

[The Observer]

Jeffles

The ARL can offer to play a combined Pacific team in RL. However, the stumbling block is that someone has to pay for that team to play.

Consider the RU Islanders team. Even though RU is the national sport in the Pacific Island nations of interest (namely Fiji, Samoa, Tonga), the FRU, SRU & TRU all struggle financially to field individual teams. They have formed PIRA to do that, but either the IRB and/or Cullen Sports (owner of the NZ Warriors RL franchise) will foot the bill to send them around to play.

In RU, the PI team will be almost completely made up of homegrown Pacific Islanders - i.e players born in the PI nations, who grew up there AND most of who played their junior Rugby there.

You will struggle to count on one hand sufficient elite players in RL (NRL/SL class) who were born, bred and played junior RL in the islands. There are Tongans Tevita Vaikona and Mal Kaufusi, St Helens' Samoans Dom Feaunati and Maurie Faasavolo and Fijian Wise Kativerata.

That's it. In RL, 95% of the players that people call Islanders are Aussies and Kiwis of PI descent.

 

[Jeffles]

So Joker

1) Are you saying we shouldn't try this?
2) Are you saying you only believe in "user pays" Test matches even in this situation where the ARL can banmkroll it and then split the cash (like it does with PNG)?
3) Are you more concerned with finding elite players to make up the side rather than taking the punt of picking your best side?

 

[The Observer]

1) No, I'm not saying that RLIF should not try to form a combined PI team. I've made the point several times on leagueunlimited, rleague grandstand and elsewhere that I'd love to see a combined PI team in RL.

The RLIF has to be pragmatic though. It is reintroducing the Pacific Cup in Aus later this year. That's a start. After a few years of it running, then the RLIF should consider the formation of a combined PI team.

2) If the combined PI team plays a test against the Kangaroos or Kiwis, then in order for the exercise to be worthwhile then the match must be able to make a profit and return any net profits into RL into the Islands. In that sense yes, I believe in user pays. The finances of the ARL and RLIF, let alone the PI RLs, are so precarious, that thye must be very careful about what games they play.

I'd like to see an extra Trans Tasman test (ie vs Kiwis) being held in Australia before we consider other opposition. Thsi year we'll have one test - the ANZAC test in Newcastle, at this stage there'll be one test - the ANZAC test in Brisbane. Relocating the Trans Tasman Tri Series games to the SH should be the priority because the Tri Series is the key tournament through which the RLIF can generate money for international RL.

Regarding your comment:

even in this situation where the ARL can bankroll it and then split the cash (like it does with PNG)

This is not the case. The ARL didn't meet all the costs to stage the Kokoda Memorial Challenge (against the Junior Roos), and I quote this article as evidence:

http://www.thenational.com.pg/1021/sports1.htm
The PNGRFL received no financial support from the International Rugby football league or the Australian institutions for last weekend's match because those organisations because the venture was put forward by the PNGRFL.

IIRC the ARL didn't fund the 2001 test vs PNG either - only the costs of the Kangaroos for travel, accomodation, match payments, insurance and other associated costs. They didn't pay for the Kumuls.

3) Don't know what you're suggesting by this comment. Anybody who thinks through the implications of the the proposal should be concerned with finding elite players to make up the side. Now the Kangaroos and Kiwis will attract the elite Australians and New Zealanders.

The Kangaroos will include the Australians of PI descent Mason, Civoniceva and Villasanti if those players are in form. NZ's top squad looks like this:

Paul, Faafili, Anderson, Toopi, Meli; N Vagana, Jones; Wiki (c), T Puletua, Lauitiiti; Rauhihi, Betham, J Cayless.

SHADOW: Tony, Vainikolo, Kidwell, Vaealiki, Utai; Hohaia, T Leuluai; Faumuina, Guttenbeil, Galuvao; N Cayless, Swain, Seu Seu

So on that basis, the top PI team would look like this:

1. Fifita Moala
2. Dominic Feaunati
3. Tevita Vaikona
4. Willie Talau
5. John Hopoate
6. Jim Dymock
7. Albert Talipeau
13. Tony Tatupu
12. David Solomona
11. Logan Swann
10. Mal Kaufusi
9. Willie Poching
8. Joe Vagana

14. Solomon Haumono
15. Iefeta Paleaeesina
16. Semi Tadulala
17. Lipina Kaufusi

 

[bender]

1) No, I'm not saying that RLIF should not try to form a combined PI team. I've made the point several times on leagueunlimited, rleague grandstand and elsewhere that I'd love to see a combined PI team in RL.

The RLIF has to be pragmatic though. It is reintroducing the Pacific Cup in Aus later this year. That's a start. After a few years of it running, then the RLIF should consider the formation of a combined PI team.

2) If the combined PI team plays a test against the Kangaroos or Kiwis, then in order for the exercise to be worthwhile then the match must be able to make a profit and return any net profits into RL into the Islands. In that sense yes, I believe in user pays. The finances of the ARL and RLIF, let alone the PI RLs, are so precarious, that thye must be very careful about what games they play.

I'd like to see an extra Trans Tasman test (ie vs Kiwis) being held in Australia before we consider other opposition. Thsi year we'll have one test - the ANZAC test in Newcastle, at this stage there'll be one test - the ANZAC test in Brisbane. Relocating the Trans Tasman Tri Series games to the SH should be the priority because the Tri Series is the key tournament through which the RLIF can generate money for international RL.

Regarding your comment:

even in this situation where the ARL can bankroll it and then split the cash (like it does with PNG)

This is not the case. The ARL didn't meet all the costs to stage the Kokoda Memorial Challenge (against the Junior Roos), and I quote this article as evidence:

http://www.thenational.com.pg/1021/sports1.htm
The PNGRFL received no financial support from the International Rugby football league or the Australian institutions for last weekend's match because those organisations because the venture was put forward by the PNGRFL.

IIRC the ARL didn't fund the 2001 test vs PNG either - only the costs of the Kangaroos for travel, accomodation, match payments, insurance and other associated costs. They didn't pay for the Kumuls.

3) Don't know what you're suggesting by this comment. Anybody who thinks through the implications of the the proposal should be concerned with finding elite players to make up the side. Now the Kangaroos and Kiwis will attract the elite Australians and New Zealanders.

The Kangaroos will include the Australians of PI descent Mason, Civoniceva and Villasanti if those players are in form. NZ's top squad looks like this:

Paul, Faafili, Anderson, Toopi, Meli; N Vagana, Jones; Wiki (c), T Puletua, Lauitiiti; Rauhihi, Betham, J Cayless.

SHADOW: Tony, Vainikolo, Kidwell, Vaealiki, Utai; Hohaia, T Leuluai; Faumuina, Guttenbeil, Galuvao; N Cayless, Swain, Seu Seu

So on that basis, the top PI team would look like this:

1. Fifita Moala
2. Dominic Feaunati
3. Tevita Vaikona
4. Willie Talau
5. John Hopoate
6. Jim Dymock
7. Albert Talipeau
13. Tony Tatupu
12. David Solomona
11. Logan Swann
10. Mal Kaufusi
9. Willie Poching
8. Joe Vagana

14. Solomon Haumono
15. Iefeta Paleaeesina
16. Semi Tadulala
17. Lipina Kaufusi

Wouldnt a Pacific Islands side also include PNG?

 

[The Observer]

Wouldnt a Pacific Islands side also include PNG?

IMHO the PI team shouldn't include PNG. PNG is a country of over 5.29 million, almost 1.5 million more than NZ, and dwarfing the populations of Fiji (840,000), Samoa (180,000 or 250,000 with American Samoa) and Tonga (101,000) - all figures rounded up. PNG has a large RL playing community, and its the only country on earth where RL is truly the national sport. Furthermore, its further away from Fiji, Samoa and Tonga than NZ is. Putting PNG in the PI team would be like putting NZ in.

 

[DIEHARD]

PNG are a proud Rugby League nation who deserve all the support in the world to get their team in the running for the world cup. We need them competitive. I think playing them against a Pacific Island side would be more benifical than combining them with a Pacific Island side. They are a rugby league nation in their own right.

 

[Jeffles]

Joker

I get what you are saying. But I cannot accept that the ARL should maintain its current level of apathy when it could do so much more. It frustrates me

The game could easily make money. Play it in Oz. I don't think it matters what sort of side you put next to it. If it is the odd NRL star plus a whole bunch of 2nd graders it would still draw fans. There is a big Pacific diaspora in Oz. The game can make money.

Pacific Cup is a good idea. But considering the amount of PI that already play in Oz, I don't think we should wait for it to establish itself.

 

[The Observer]

Jeffles,

just to add to a previous point, IIRC according to a big League from 2002, the ARL lost $A70,000 on the Kangaroos Kumuls game in Port Moresby in 2001, but they took part for the good of the game.

FWIW I agree with you - it would be good to see the Roos take on a PI team in Australia, and it could be successful. The game could be taken to Parramatta because there is a large expatriate PI pop there.

 

[Jeffles]

$A70K for a match in PNG is OK. I'd play them in OZ becase of the greater gate and the fact yiou can still beam it prime time into PNG.

 

[DIEHARD]

Play em at Dairy Farmers :mrgreen: