B
bender
Guest
However, by comparing Melbourne to what clubs achieved in 1908 is pointless and rediculous. Example - Melbourne's GF win was before a crowd of 104 000. Souths was before a crowd of 4000. So what bloody conclusion do you draw from trhat? Are you suggesting that Melbourne has 25 times the support in Sydney that Souths does? I havent seen a grand final with less than 40000 people after 1957. In any case, I would certainly suggest that Melbourne has more than 25 times the support that Souths have in Melbourne. The ARL come WAS going gangbusters in 1994. However, your figures include the decades of seasons before where it wasn't. The demographic changes in Sydney in that time have been staggering. It's populattion has increased 4 fold, and it's physical area has increased 5 fold. It only has 2 original clubs left. When did it start going great, the 90s, 80s, 70s, 60s? IMO, the Sydney comp always was in a poor state crowd wise. It was not until it introduced Brisbane and Newcastle that it began to really go ahead. The Superleague comp which everyone calls a failure actually drew better crowds than the Sydney comp ever did because the out of town clubs like Adelaide, Perth, NZ, Brisbane etc always drew respectable crowds. We hear how successful the Sydney comp was and how we need to keep sides like Balmain, norths etc at the expense of Melbourne, Adelaide, Perth etc yet crowd figures show otherwise. (in fairness this may not be you who says these things). You mention Souths and St Geore fans - wondering why crowds of 40 k don't attend all the ames. Simple. They have moved out of the area. This is the biggest point of the figures. When did they ever live in town? I do agree some clubs have a few fans who have moved away. But the figures showed that there has been no time where they ever did have had huge droves of fans. You have just complained about using the old figures because no-one got any decent crowds in these time (allegedly) now you say they donât get good crowds because of demographics shifting. The either get crowds or they donât, it is that simple. Another example - the Roosters are famous for having small home crowds from their small area. However, they were, this year, the biggest drawcard AWAY from home - blitzing the Knight and Broncos. Sydney clubs support is everywhere, and widespread. Brisbane love hosting Parramatta and St George -the gate swells. The reason for the Roosters big away crowds (largely) were that they are a good side whose games were always exciting. Therefore, there is a good reason for a clubs fans to go and watch the game. I will have to look at figures before I say that their away crowds blitzed that of the Knights and Broncos. Brisbane love hosting Parramatta and St George for 2 reasons, one they do have a reasonable following, but much more importantly the two clubs have built a good rivalry. Would a parramatta v St George game in Brisbane get a respectable crowd? To make your figures corrrect, lets have a look at Melbournes. Over the 96 year history of the comp, they only average 784 people per game. Compare that to Souths or Easts. Does this not simply support the fact that John Ribot has done an excellent job with Melbourne. He has taken a city which averaged maybe 1000 RL spectators a weekend and turned them into a club which draw between 9000 and 15000 spectators every second weekend. Surely that is impressive? What you are basically trying to say is that Melbourne are going better than say the South Sydney club was pre 1970s, going better than the great St George teams but not as good as the Sydney clubs currently are, or have in the last few years. When I get a chance I will do a comparison with the Sydney clubs over the past few years, I wonder if it will surprise anyone. Finally, your assertion that Parra regularly get less than 10 000 when they are in poor form is wrong. Their last average crowd of less than 10 000 was in the pre premiership days. Even when they ran second last for all those years they still got more than a 10 000 average. Crowds for Parramatta can be summarised as follows: 1957 - 1961 Crowds were below 5000. Without checking, they were probably competive in 1962 because they averaged 11000, 14000 and 17000 for the next 3 years. Until 1969, they averaged 11000 to 13000. 1971 drew 14000 but other than that, they obviously struggled in the early 70s because their crowds drew under 10000 until 1976. For the next 10 years they nearly always averaged between 10000 and 14000. In 1986, they actually broke the club record for average crowds which was set back in 1964 by about 100 people. Interestingly, during the early 80s when they were arguably at their best, they drew smaller average crowds than Melbourne, Perth, Adelaide, Crushers, Auckland ever did, usually averaging 10000-11000. In the Late 80s, the Sydney comp got a boost to crowds and interest because of the introduction of out of town sides. Parra started to average about 12000-14000 per game at this time, although during their two worst years - 1992 and 1995 they averaged less than 10000 (Surprise, Surprise). Fortunately for Parramatta, Superleague came along. Their crowds have been great ever since, with crowds of 14000 to 19000 being averaged. However, this has coincided with a fantastic team being put on the paddock. This year a good side (not a poor side) just averaged 14000 which is a drop of 3-5 thousand on what they were getting. Presumably, if the side performs poorly again (like say a Gold Coast) they will average less than 10000 like they usually do. And, unlike Melbourne, they haven't got a whole city of 3 million to themselves. So you are a fan of reducing the number of Sydney teams to increase crowds then? If Ribot wsa such a great administrator, how come he got his club booted from Lang Park? When Ribot took over the Broncos, their first season drew crowds similar to what they were now. By their last season at Lang Park, he had them to the point where they actually sold out lang park 3 times. It was clear that they needed a bigger stadium because they were losing too much money. The move was not exactly a failure was it? How come he presided over a sudden drop of 60% of their crowd support (not recovered) Didnât the drop come after he resigned? How come he so totally misjudged the public in the Super League war? This is probably the crux of the topic. And the whole point of the figures. Superleague was not as good a season as two or three seasons in the 90s but other than that it was the best season ever. in terms of crowd support. Post Superleague is arguably as good a period crowd wise as any season previously. Did Ribot misjudge the public during Superleague. I donât think so. What happened in superleague was two things. Firstly, because it was a forced takeover (since the ARL rejected the idea) Superleague in its ideal form never ever got tried or tested. It was only ever a bastardised version with watered down teams since half of the good players actually played in the ARL. It is also often forgotten that in the first few weeks of the comp interest was at a high and crowds for clubs had increased it was only after the WCC that interest started declining. Despite what you read in papers about the ARL winning the war, Superleague (with the obvious exception of Hunter) did get better average crowds. The crowds for Superleague, despite the poor product were not that bad. Secondly, Ribot underestimated the ARL's management and tactics. They largely shaped public opinion through the media with their war mentality. They attacked the game and used the hate factor. This is largely what shaped public opinion. Their use (and later Piggins') of the Rabbitohs, Balmain etc in the war was masterfull. Their criticism of the video ref was the classic example. Ridiculed it at every opportunity yet eventually used it because it was a great. This is what brought the hate out against Superleague, more than anything. As a final point in the supremacy of Ribot as a club administrator, the crowd figures show that Ribot's Melbourne (post superleague - 98 - 2002) drew better crowds than arguably sydney's most successful club - Parramatta in (94 - 98) during the time of the games great Boom.
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