Crusaders Leave SuperLeague

[Evil Homer]

You can choose where you expand to, and go to places with a large potential upside. Gateshead, bridgend and wrexham just aren't places that are large enough to sustain top tier clubs, given their lack of support for RL.

Places like Melbourne can and London can (sort of) overcome the lack of RL support through sheer population size. Expanding to Bridgend was like trying to start an NRL team in Ballarat.

If the RFL were serious about wales they would have gone into the biggest markets. Instead, the crusaders just fell in their laps and they looked past their obvious lack of viability should their sugar daddy get bored.

The support base and local population wasn't an issue at all, the issue was pathetically inept management and administration by the people who were in charge of the club.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

If internationals cannot sell out smaller stadiums, then what would be achieved by renting out larger stadiums other than raising costs? I understand that you absolutely despise anything and everything related to English RL, but some of the things that you post at times just don't make any sense at all.

Because people don't want to go to a crappy little stadium in a crappy little pit town.

If your ridiculous theory stood up then why, when England/Australia didn't sell out at Wigan, are they playing at Wembley this year? Do you seriously think only 20,000 will go to Wembley because only that many went to Wigan? And you reckon I don't make sense. Have a look in the mirror pal. f**k poms are thick.

 

[griff]

The support base and local population wasn't an issue at all, the issue was pathetically inept management and administration by the people who were in charge of the club.

Of course it was an issue. Yes the management was shithouse but even excellent management would have struggled to get sufficient crowds to go anywhere near breaking even in small non RL cities like bridgend and wrexham.

 

[RedVee]

Is Widnes the logical spot for the Welsh Crusaders players now? I assume they need to fill some spots on their roster for next year?

 

[deluded pom?]

Is Widnes the logical spot for the Welsh Crusaders players now? I assume they need to fill some spots on their roster for next year?

Widnes is not too far from Wrexham so relocating won't really come into it if they were to sign for them. Widnes will be looking for players for next season. Obviously the majority of the Crusaders players are now looking for a new club and logically I'd think some of them will end up at Widnes. The RFL have also allowed special dispensation regarding the overseas players in that they (the players) will not count on their new clubs' quota for the duration of any contract they sign with a new club for 2012 and beyond. This will make them a more attractive proposition for the established SLE teams. Jarrod Sammut has already signed a year deal with Bradford for 2012.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

The club was unviable in the same way most clubs aren't viable. Most clubs lose money every year. The only difference is there was no one to make up the shortfall for long enough to keep it going. Maybe if the RFL didn't waste money on nonsense like the "England Knights" and didn't undersell internationals by playing them in tiny stadia, which they still can't fill and have to offer a bunch of cheap tickets to, they might have had the money to fund expansion.

PS: The flatcaps will be after Quins next.

Mate I'm all for expansion and professionalism, I wouldn't be on an NRL forum If I was against the commercialisation of the sport. But not everyone who goes against the Crusaders are flatcaps.

In fact most opinions against the Crusaders and Quins come from those who are well versed in economics and marketing. 2 industries where you'd struggle to find a flatcap.

Nobody is fundamentally opposed to growing the game and moving from the heartlands. Peoples issues are and will remain the logistics of such expansion.

The RFL are trying to build houses on a beach. Sooner or later the tides going to come in and show the expansion to be the hollow fantasy the "flatcaps" have known it was.

Places like Melbourne can and London can (sort of) overcome the lack of RL support through sheer population size. Expanding to Bridgend was like trying to start an NRL team in Ballarat.

Sorry but the landscapes really aren't comparable. You can't compare NRL expansion to SL expansion, because League in England and Australia have little resemblance.

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

Because people don't want to go to a crappy little stadium in a crappy little pit town.

If your ridiculous theory stood up then why, when England/Australia didn't sell out at Wigan, are they playing at Wembley this year? Do you seriously think only 20,000 will go to Wembley because only that many went to Wigan? And you reckon I don't make sense. Have a look in the mirror pal. f**k poms are thick.

And you're the height of intelligence, aren't you? If the RFL had your attitude towards the working class North there would be no game of RL in England.

You're kidding yourself if you think the RFL are making profit taking the game to Wembley. Homers point is a sound one, and he didn't even factor in the fact half the tickets will be given away for free to the local business sector.

When 20,000 people go to Wigan to watch League, that's about 19,900 sales. They give tickets away in the South, they have to. It isn't productive in any way.

 

[dangerousdave]

Will league be returning to wales in the forseeable future?

 

[langpark]

And you're the height of intelligence, aren't you? If the RFL had your attitude towards the working class North there would be no game of RL in England.

You're kidding yourself if you think the RFL are making profit taking the game to Wembley. Homers point is a sound one, and he didn't even factor in the fact half the tickets will be given away for free to the local business sector.

When 20,000 people go to Wigan to watch League, that's about 19,900 sales. They give tickets away in the South, they have to. It isn't productive in any way.

I don't think there will be many free tickets for the Wembley match, it is not necessary. The 10 pound ticket is ridiculously cheap as it is, you'd pay more just to take the stadium tour!!!

 

[Masoe_eats_babies]

I don't think there will be many free tickets for the Wembley match, it is not necessary. The 10 pound ticket is ridiculously cheap as it is, you'd pay more just to take the stadium tour!!!

They're going to have to give tickets away, otherwise the games will look a complete joke in a fifth full stadium.

I can't say for a fact but I have family in the business sector down South and they're forever getting free games for Rugby and League. If they do give out tickets(which i suspect they will), I'll let you know.

If anyone is in Britain I could probably get you free tickets, actually. My Uncle gets free tickets for all the Rugby games, including season tickets for London Irish, Wasps etc. Him and his friends and their businesses have been given free League tickets in the past, I see no reason why they won't be given them again.

Not to say you're wrong because £10 is good value and if promoted right there's no reason why the stadium couldn't sell out, but the day I trust the RFL to promote League right is the day I lay down infront of a moving train! It will all depend really on pre-sales and marketing. If pre-tickets sales don't hit a set-quota you usually see tickets given out to the business community, free of charge.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, building relations and all that. But it happens more than most people think.

Don't be fooled by attendance in the South of England, none of the statistics are worth the paper they're printed on. The Yawnion games at Twickenham are a good 30% FREE tickets, given to the prawn-sandwich brigade.

But even if tickets aren't given out, there is no need to get carried away. League fans in Britain have a tendancy to see progress where it doesn't exist. If Wembley happened to sell out you could bet your bottom dollar that most there would be Northerners and Aussie expats. It's really quite rare to travel down South and see actual Southern league fans.

Basketball and the NFL are more popular in London. Camel racing too with the large middle eastern population :sarcasm:

 

[bender]

It is amazing, looking at various threads on the internet, how people who were the most critical of Crusaders being allowed in in the first place, because it was far better to concentrate on grass roots development, are now calling the experiment a disgrace and a failure and declaring rugby league dead in Wales.

Of course there is never any mention by these people of the great good that has come about by the Welsh experiment.

http://www.rlef.eu.com/news/article/237/lewis-welsh-rugby-league-making

On a positive note, i think that the loss of the Super league licence will see a massive increase in the promotions of the Welsh national team next year. I wouldnt be surprised to see Wales play in Wales against England, France,Scotland, Ireland and maybe even a Pacific team next year. And i think that these might even be well promoted events. Of course, this is just a hunch, but if there are 3 welsh championship sides, I cannot see a better way to promote the game.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

And you're the height of intelligence, aren't you? If the RFL had your attitude towards the working class North there would be no game of RL in England.

You're kidding yourself if you think the RFL are making profit taking the game to Wembley. Homers point is a sound one, and he didn't even factor in the fact half the tickets will be given away for free to the local business sector.

When 20,000 people go to Wigan to watch League, that's about 19,900 sales. They give tickets away in the South, they have to. It isn't productive in any way.

Hey guess what genius, there's other grounds in the north other than Wigan you know. Or do you know? Ever heard of Old Trafford, Elland Road, Eastlands? All have pulled 35,000 plus for RL Tests but instead we have games being played in backwaters, some of which don'e even have a railway station. It not only limits the opportunity for people to go, but limits their interest and makes the whole sport look backward. Which quite franky it is over there.

 

[Evil Homer]

Hey guess what genius, there's other grounds in the north other than Wigan you know. Or do you know? Ever heard of Old Trafford, Elland Road, Eastlands? All have pulled 35,000 plus for RL Tests but instead we have games being played in backwaters, some of which don'e even have a railway station. It not only limits the opportunity for people to go, but limits their interest and makes the whole sport look backward. Which quite franky it is over there.

I assume you are referring to the England v Wales match at Leigh? There's no way that a game like that would attract a large crowd, people are unlikely to attend because Wales aren't yet considered a credible opponent, there would be 10-12,000 max wherever the game was played. It would be a joke to stage a game like this at Old Trafford, Leigh isn't a good venue at all but from next year matches like this will probably be held at St Helens. I don't know what else you are moaning about because Hull is a good venue for the NZ match and the Australia match is being played at one of the biggest stadiums in the world.

As for whoever was suggesting that the RFL would be handing out free tickets to Wembley, they definitely won't be doing that. There will be discounts, corporate packages etc, but they aren't going to go out handing out thousands of free tickets for a match at Wembley Stadium, that would be absolute lunacy. Agreed that if the match sells out it will largely be Northern fans traveling down, but that comment about Southern RL fans was totally incorrect, 50% of Sky's viewing figures for RL matches come from the South of England, there are plenty of fans in the South. And as for Aussie ex-pats, that just a total myth and one of the biggest things that grinds my gears when people talk about RL in London.

 

[griff]

Sorry but the landscapes really aren't comparable. You can't compare NRL expansion to SL expansion, because League in England and Australia have little resemblance.

Yes true but it's a rhetorical device to make the point.

Would the RFL have expanded to Bridgend if Leighton Samuel wasn't looking to stick one up the WRU? No way in the world.

You would have to say no, because there a range of other locations that would stack up much better, sugar daddy aside.

 

[roughyedspud]

Hey guess what genius, there's other grounds in the north other than Wigan you know. Or do you know? Ever heard of Old Trafford, Elland Road, Eastlands?

old trafford/alex ferguson will only allow 1 game of RL played there a year...the grand final

elland rd....we play games at elland rd....knobhead

eastlands...are only allowed so many non football events to happen at the stadium...and eastland have decided to full their quota with concerts cos it earns them more money..



and please...for old time sake...remind me where australia played PNG in 2010...and how many turned up?

not to mention the fact that the ARL stages games at melbourne,robina &newcastle....which is no different to the RFL taking games to wigan,hull or hudderfield capacity-wise



bringing the topic back to crusaders from ECT anti-english/RFL rant.......

the fact that the crusaders have folded/withdrawn is'nt the RFL's or richard lewis' fault.......its poor management thats caused the crusaders demise....how the hell do you lose £500k IN 6 MONTHS?.....where is the money going?...the money they get a season from sky would cover their salary cap....its not as if they are calatan who spend tens of thousands on air travel every year, a couple of hundred quid a week on diesel for the team coach would cover travel costs lol


on other boards some have suggested that the RFL somehow buy the crusaders...i don't agree with that...welsh RL needs to find their level...and if thats in the championship or champ1 then so be it.....having 2 or 3 welsh teams at that level featuring nigh on 100% welsh players will do more for the development of the game in wales than the crusaders where half the team are overseas players...

where the RFL,and WRL for that matter, need to step in is with the crusaders under 18's,16's & 15's......these kids need to keep playing at the level they currently are...ie,the under 18's need to keep playing in the valvoline cup against the rest of the super league clubs.....same goes for the scholarship teams..

lose those teams and you can kiss wales goodbye

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The fact remains the RFL has once again embarrassed rugby league. Dickie Lewis couldn't run a bath (well he is a pom afterall). The big joke is a club that went into administration a few months ago is now in SL by default. The "two sweetest words in the English language" at the RFL = de fault. And another club that went broke a couple of years back is joining them. Crusaders are not the only club on its arse. The RFL is running a basket case sport over there and people reckon Dickie is up to running international football. What a joke. Now they have the opportunity to buy Crusaders and keep Welsh RL affloat and they can't/won't do it because there are clubs in the supposed heartlands that are on life support and the RFL is pissing money away on stupid concepts like "England Knights" (read second rate team from a second rate country) and ensuring their revenues remain limited by playing internationals at venues people don't want to go to, giving away tickets, killing of the Great Britain brand and under-selling the sport to a dodgy media company that doesn't show it on free to air TV where it might actually gain some exposure. If these clowns run international football we're all fecked. Every WC will be like 2000.

 

[roughyedspud]

The fact remains the RFL has once again embarrassed rugby league. Dickie Lewis couldn't run a bath (well he is a pom afterall). The big joke is a club that went into administration a few months ago is now in SL by default. The "two sweetest words in the English language" at the RFL = de fault. And another club that went broke a couple of years back is joining them. Crusaders are not the only club on its arse. The RFL is running a basket case sport over there and people reckon Dickie is up to running international football. What a joke. Now they have the opportunity to buy Crusaders and keep Welsh RL affloat and they can't/won't do it because there are clubs in the supposed heartlands that are on life support and the RFL is pissing money away on stupid concepts like "England Knights" (read second rate team from a second rate country) and ensuring their revenues remain limited by playing internationals at venues people don't want to go to, giving away tickets, killing of the Great Britain brand and under-selling the sport to a dodgy media company that doesn't show it on free to air TV where it might actually gain some exposure. If these clowns run international football we're all fecked. Every WC will be like 2000.

yeah yeah racist merkin...


just a few quick ones though to shoot you down ya punch drunk fool

richard lewis does'nt even run the RFL day to day...his fat mate does

the RFL should buy the crusaders...yeah ok....then the ARL should fund 100% a PNG team.....they would'nt do that cos the ARL has no interest in expansion does it

as for the RFL pissing money away......erm...the RFL posted a healthy profit again this year and reinvesting that money in a england development team is actually sound reasoning......buying the crusaders would be pissing money away ya clown

underselling the sport to a dodgy media company?? lmao...SL tv rights have increased by roughly 8% on the last deal... while championship football tv rights dropped 26%.....that represents very,very good business by the RFL.........

and that dodgy media company OWNS 50% of the NRL, 68.9% of the brisbane broncos & 100% of the melbourne storm

every NRL makes a profit does it?....i bet we could count on 1 hand the number of clubs that break even...infact alot of your clubs are funded off the back of peoples addiction to poker machines....a very sound business model that...:lol:


and finally.......eveyone knows the 2000 world cup would have made a profit if the ARL had thrown its world cup tv rights into the pot like everyone else.......but you kept yours...nice one ARL

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Pffft.

In which country has a top grade club just gone to the wall? In what country has another top grade club gone into administration but remains in the top 12 teams in that country?

And you want to pass the buck for your bum chum Dickie. What is it about him you love so much? The guy is responsible for the ongoing farce that is English RL and even your doting defence of him doesn't alter the fact.

By the way how's your "black" mate going?

You want to call me a racist but you are happy to define people solely by their race. You still haven't told me just how "black" this mate of yours is. Does he have any other features besides being "black"? Can you tell him apart from any other "black" person.

 

[roughyedspud]

Pffft.

In which country has a top grade club just gone to the wall? In what country has another top grade club gone into administration but remains in the top 12 teams in that country?

a quick look through the records shows cronulla are at least $13m in debt,melbourne lose millions every year...newcastle lost $1.6m and owe the taxman $700k for the 2010 season alone... and penrith,st george,parra & canterbury are all heavily reliant on grants from leagues clubs...

i don't like how the crusaders announced they where pulling out,at the last minute and all that.......but at least they had the ball to say it was'nt working when they only owed £500k....considering how much money gets pumped into australian RL its shocking just how bankrupt most of your clubs are...

And you want to pass the buck for your bum chum Dickie. What is it about him you love so much? The guy is responsible for the ongoing farce that is English RL and even your doting defence of him doesn't alter the fact.

not passing the buck..just letting you know who runs the game day to day...

By the way how's your "black" mate going?

You want to call me a racist but you are happy to define people solely by their race. You still haven't told me just how "black" this mate of yours is. Does he have any other features besides being "black"? Can you tell him apart from any other "black" person.

aside from it not being any of you f**king business....he's 1/4 nigerian and he's in hospital at the min cos he's busted his knee pretty bad on wednesday....

 

[deluded pom?]