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Discuss - Why is real Aussie cricket in trouble?

gUt

Coach
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16,889
http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket...m/news-story/a1f4fa352d11422d46e933f5663dfa00

Brett Geeves on the demise of Australian domestic cricket and impact on the Test team

GREG Chappell is an Australian cricketing icon. And lobbing grenades at him is akin to lobbing water balloons at the Queen.

You’ll likely be court-martialed, strung up by all fours and have car battery wires applied to your nipples.

But to get to the core reason as to why Australian cricket is now on its knees, we need to, at the very least, hit Greg with a rubber band or an onslaught of Nerf-related bullets.

Greg Chappell - just named an interim selector - is responsible for taking the lead on a decision that sent cricket in Australia spiralling backwards and to this day, still impacts the development of the game and those aspiring to be contributors to both their state and their country as playing representatives.

2009 was a time when reality TV was with us, but nowhere near as prominent to our social fabric. In many regards, Greg was a cricketing pioneer for attempting to bring a reality TV model to Australian domestic cricket. The Next Top Order Batter.

He so desperately wanted to find the next 15-year top order batter, or handsome fast bowler oozing marketability and the frame of a centre half forward, that he disturbed and shifted the foundation of what had made Australian cricket strong.

Soon after, Pat Howard was appointed high performance supremo and went on to push for experiments in the Shield like pink balls, Dukes balls and new points systems.

But back to 2009. The Australian domestic cricket scene was the one asset not broken, or to be messed with. It didn’t need tinkering. Australian cricket would not prosper if the strongest production line of talent in the world was disrespected. Greg picked it up, without an ear to the screams of the players, and dropped it. Dropped it right on its head. Hard.

Remarkably, he turned the domestic second XI competition into a glorified junior competition; implementing restrictions on how many players over the age of 24 could be selected in each team. Because 25 year-old’s were deemed past it and simply clogging the transition of kids who had nice techniques and success in national junior tournaments, but no runs on the board in the breeding ground of a once hot-spot for talented, battle-hardened men: club cricket.

The change was drastic, with seven out of the 11 players needing to be under 24.

This sent a message to states, and its contracted players, that if you were over 24 and not being selected in the first XI, your days were numbered.

I would love to know how many contracted players lost their spot on a state list, with the impact being detrimental to their motivation and ultimately their want to contribute in grade cricket.

How many grade players that missed out on the talent identification of state junior representation - over the age of 24 - aspiring to play first-class cricket for their state, saw this decision as a smack in the face to their pursuit of their childhood dream?

How many departed the game for the lure of the country synthetic cricket and its offering of cash? How many departed for the lure of family time and a game of golf? How many picked up an extra day’s work?

Having lived in the grade scene for the past five years and consistently being the second oldest in the competition, at age 29 onwards, I can tell you now that it has impacted club cricket enormously. So much so that Australia’s contracted players – international and domestic - contributed close to $20 million dollars from their player payment pool to feed the development of grade cricket, youth pathways, player welfare and a host of other areas.

Be aware that this act is unprecedented in world sport. Players, giving up their own slice of the pie to ensure the game remains in a healthy place.

Concerning is the fact that the players saw this coming. That they felt they had to take ownership, with their own money, to fix the issues created by a management team so focused on believing that the answer sat with the identification of a superstar kid to save the day that they lost sight of what was actually working.

Two years after implementing this drastic change to that national second XI competition, CA eased up on its stance of the restriction of players over the age of 24 and states can now select six ‘over-age’ players. And it is still not enough.

The damage is done and it will only continue while the domestic competition – both first XI and second – are diluted with underachieving kids who aren’t entering the highest levels of the game equipped with the experiences of complete domination through the once-challenging stepping stone to the earnt representation of state and country.

How many times have we heard about the generational talent of Ponting, McGrath, Warne, Hayden, Langer, Lee, Hussey and Gillespie?

The international dominance of the group that took us on their journey of two 16-Test winning streaks - 1999 to 2001 and 2005 to 2008 - was no fluke. All of the players that are put into that once-in-a-generation category were developed in the hardest of schools.

Club games were not gifted to them as teenagers because of their technically correct stroke play. They banged hundreds and took wickets.

They were not gifted state second XI games purely because of their age and dominance against their junior peers. They banged more hundreds and took more wickets.

Their emergence as state players and development into international greats? Hundreds. Wickets. Lots of them. All of which came in a domestic competition seen as the strongest in the world.

Adding to the disrespect of the domestic competition is the current scheduling of the Matador Cup and the introduction of the Cricket Australia XI; a collection of technically nice-looking kids who have shown promising junior careers, but have not earned the right to represent their state; like Phillip Hughes did as a 19 year old. And Cameron White did as skipper of Victoria at 20. And George Bailey at 19. And Ricky Ponting at 18. The best kids will get their chance, and the great ones will make it work.

So not only has Chappell’s individual pursuit to whittle down the contestants to find The Next Top Order Batter impacted on the depth of grade cricket and the development opportunities of those in the system, contestants now get a free shot at the big time of first-class cricket. And this isn’t even made up.

For as long as the domestic cricket scene is being treated as a play thing for Pat Howard, the schedule of one-day cricket and Shield cricket is condensed and compromised to ensure that the Big Bash gets maximum exposure and the search for Greg’s Next Top Order Batter continues with age restrictions on the second XI and the ongoing free ride to first-class cricket for kids with nice techniques, Australian cricket will continue to spiral into the ugly murkiness of the 1980s.

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At least we have pink balls tho

c8ae8fd46f22cc95116dac9f9a2705f8
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
61,938
I agree actually

Its either one heck of a coincidence or chappells meddling has had a negative impact on shield cricket and therefore development
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
11,828
I seem to recall that his tenure as the Indian coach ended up being an unmitigated disaster too... Happy to be proven wrong but I get the impression that any time he's had a role in selection or coaching or admin, he hasn't been all that good at it.
 

hineyrulz

Post Whore
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148,984
Greg Chappell great batsman but everything else he seems to touch turns to shit.

No wonder these kids seem pampered lazy and self entitled. They almost get a free ride into the first class scene without earning it and then we wonder why they struggle to take the next step up to international cricket.
 

Twizzle

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
151,046
I just think we are going through a stage where we are not up to it and we lack the depth that we are so used to having.

This makes it interesting for me, we cant be on top forever and when you get knocked off your perch it can make or break you when determining how you deal with the rebuilding phase.

Time to pick some 25 year olds and stick with them and ignore the form of 35+ year olds, like Fergusen. It will probabaly cost us games in the short term but what the hell, we are losing anyway.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,298
Australian cricket is in trouble cos they pick 31 year old keepers like Nevill who average 20 with the bat and cos they pick young all-rounders like Mitch Marsh who can't actually bat or ball.
 

some11

Referee
Messages
23,368
Sounds a bit like U20s players coming into first grade vs guys who've been playing QLD/NSW Cup for a year or two. Some will be able to handle it on the back of their skill but do they have the mentality to mature into test cricketers?

Geeves sounds like a straight shooter so hopefully a few more articles from him to give us more insight.
 

JJ

Immortal
Messages
31,801
Not in trouble - just a flat deck and a ban on lollies away from all being sweet
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
47,967
At the moment we're struggling. But we lost a shitload of decent players recently: Clarke, Rodgers, Harris, Johnson, Haddin, Watson. The problem was a couple of these blokes needed to be tapped on the shoulder earlier than they were, atm we're trying to find 6 players to fill these gaps, thats a lot of holes to fill all at once.

We are never going to get near the heights of the waugh - early ponting eras. Gilchrist and Warne were once in a century type of players, Mcgrath, Ponting and Swaugh once in a generation. Throw in Hayden, Langer, Gillespie, Martin, Mcgill, M waugh and you have one of the greatest teams of all time.

With outr infrastructure, player stocks and history Australia should be in top 3 test sides all the time. But we're not because the CEO of CA sees the pinnacle of cricket as making money not test cricket and so the pathways to make test cricketers have been shafted in favour of KFC Big bash.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
15,330
I wonder if they have ever though of getting the best young players from the other states to play in the Sydney first grade competition. This competition is a mile ahead of the other states major grade comps and is arguably the best breeding ground in world cricket.

I get that it would weaken those other competitions but maybe they could somehow play in both. Either play half a season in both comps or play Saturday in one and Sunday in another.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
11,828
With outr infrastructure, player stocks and history Australia should be in top 3 test sides all the time. But we're not because the CEO of CA sees the pinnacle of cricket as making money not test cricket and so the pathways to make test cricketers have been shafted in favour of KFC Big bash.

It will be interesting to see what sort of deal CA get for Test broadcast right when its next negotiated. As you rightly say, Test cricket is nearly in a derelict state because CA have become all consumed with the Big Bash and how much revenue they can get from it.

I would not be surprised if they get less money then they get on the current deal when the next Test broadcast rights deal is signed if things continue the way they are...
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
10,817
Wrote about this in another thread and will paste it here:

"When I first started following cricket back in 1995, I remember as an 8 year old the large emphasis that was placed on the AIS academy and Sheffield Shield cricket. Now, in 2016, the funds, focus and emphasis have exclusively moved towards the KFC Big Bash and T20 cricket. Cricket Australia sold out to the BCCI, and the whole culture of the Australian dressing room has completely changed since the 2008 monkeygate controversy (even moreso since Ponting retired). The so-called Argus Review in 2011 - that was supposedly an indepth review into the poor form at test level and numerous other issues - has done absolutely nothing. A new generation of children have now grown up in a cricket era that has become all about the $$$, tv ratings, quick entertainment, flashing lights, glitz and glamour (red carpets at T20 games), not to mention instead of the professionalism of the likes of Richie Benaud fronting the camera, now being exposed to the likes of James Brayshaw squealing like a pre-pubescent boy, Victorians and the constant AFL references in commentary (e.g. Warne/Fleming/Whateley) etc. The true, traditionalist cricket fans don't relate to players in a team that constantly flaunt themselves in magazines/facebook/twitter/instagram, showing off their latest tattoos, blonde girlfriends or sports cars.

And it's no coincidence of the strong correlation that exists between when T20 cricket started becoming the focus at domestic cricket level (around 2010, just prior to the Big Bash changing from a state to city franchise format) and the emergence of sub-100 innings totals and dramatic batting collapses Australia has had at test level. Batting technique and composure of most players at state level is absolutely appauling, and then they are brutally exposed when they carry the technique and nonchalant attitude when they get opportunities at international level (e.g. Glen Maxwell). It's funny how the concern of T20 was mentioned in the Argus Review in 2011, yet nothing has been and nothing will be ever done about it as T20 is CA's coveted cash cow."

In addition, the culture of the team on a whole is another major problem: on the field, in the dressing room and off the field. You can keep chopping and changing the side all you want, but that is not going to solve anything in the long-term whilst the culture remains the same.

On the field, James Sutherland et al. at CA play a large role in this. Since the monkeygate incident in 2008, and 'sacrificing' Andrew Symonds as a peace offering, the Aussies' style of play on the field has changed quite a lot. The Aussies were forced to change the way they played the game, and clearly lack the hunger, passion and determination to succeed like they did under previous captains. If Sutherland was a real man and someone of principle, he would've bowed out from the CEO role many years ago. It's hard to believe he has been in that role for 14 years now, and there are several aspects of the game in Australia (too long to post here) that I hate now thanks to him and his cronies who will do anything to hold onto their nice 6-digit salaries. Also, before that incident, you had players in the team who grew up playing cricket in the pre-internet/social media era, who were in and out of the team during their career, playing in undoubtedly the most competitive era of Australian cricket history (1994-2004), and had a greater appreciation for what it meant to wear the baggy green as they had to actually EARN their spot in the side. Nowadays, baggy greens are being handed out willy-nilly, and you have players like Shane Watson (although now retired) and Mitchell Marsh repeatedly being selected despite a long run of sub-standard performances. Players also think it's their birthright to be automatically selected in the XI. This does nothing other than devalue what it really means to wear the baggy green in the first place.

In the dressing room, something has gone horribly wrong there. Not much has been publicly discussed about in the media, but the way or manner the team capitulated this series vs South Africa imply that something else may be going on behind the scenes that the public hasn't been made aware of. The role of the coach, captain, vice-captain and selectors in the team needs to be re-evaluated. It seems like since Lehmann became coach, he has been given more a lot more power than previous coaches such as Mickey Arthur. Until the end of the 2001 Ashes, during Steve Waugh's reign as captain, the captain and vice-captain were both on the selectors panel. The role of the coach, captain, vice-captain and selectors in a cricket team has always been a contentious issue, how much power and influence should the captain have in the selection of a cricket team etc. I don't know what you guys think about this issue.

Off the field, like with a T20 match, it's all become about the glitz and glamour. Tommy Smith made reference to this in regards to Nic Maddison's instagram page. The glitz and glamour is for all to see every year at the Allan Border Medal night where the focus and media coverage is heavily on the WAGS (players girlfriends/partners/wives) and what they are wearing, and also during Ashes tours since the last successful campaign in 2001. I do agree with Ian Healy's comment last year after our Ashes defeat about the WAGS needing to take a backstep and only being allowed on the Ashes tour if Australia has won the series. The girls can bitch all they want; this is not about them, this is about the players needing to be solely focused on putting in their best performance and giving the team the best possible chance of winning. Until then, the constant focus on the WAGS and the other side issues such as the distractions when disagreements and incessant bitch fights between players wives/girlfriends occur (as mentioned by several people in their autobiographies, such as Gilchrist and Bracken) is going to serve as a big stumbling block in on-field success. Also not a fan of large squads being selected, as on a long tour, there's eventually going to be friction and jealousy amongst the playing squad (that will also spill over to the WAGS) when someone is either dropped from the team or isn't getting a game.
 
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BuderusIsaBeast

Juniors
Messages
554
For mine the neglect of the Sheffield Shield is to blame. When we were strong we had a number of talent players in the shield and it was considered by far the premier domestic competiton in the world. Now it is split in half and played on poor batter freindly wickets that are all the same. If we can put more effort into make the shield great again I believe we will see the benefits
 

Front-Rower

First Grade
Messages
5,297
The era of favoritism has been around forever. I remember back in the days my friends and I used to try out for junior rep teams and we were severely disadvantaged because our parents or friends of our parents weren't on selection or district committees. Didn't matter that we used to regularly make grand finals, win competitions and top runs/wickets tallies, we just didn't get a run.

Geeves is 100% correct when he infers that results don't matter. It's how you are perceived not how you perform.
 

gUt

Coach
Messages
16,889
This morning I caught the end of a live cross to Quentin Hull who's covering the Shield. He was saying something like in days gone by he would have to be on standby to give score updates throughout the day but the demand for it isn't there, and it was 'nice' to be back on the radio. Paraphrasing but it shows even Auntie doesn't care about the Shield any more.
 

steggz

Juniors
Messages
1,410
This morning I caught the end of a live cross to Quentin Hull who's covering the Shield. He was saying something like in days gone by he would have to be on standby to give score updates throughout the day but the demand for it isn't there, and it was 'nice' to be back on the radio. Paraphrasing but it shows even Auntie doesn't care about the Shield any more.
Rubbish. Last Shield round had someone at all three games. Sure, they're not there during the week (and I don't think they would have been in the past either) but Grandstand is still covering Shield matches
 

jargan83

Coach
Messages
14,891
It will be interesting to see what sort of deal CA get for Test broadcast right when its next negotiated. As you rightly say, Test cricket is nearly in a derelict state because CA have become all consumed with the Big Bash and how much revenue they can get from it.

I would not be surprised if they get less money then they get on the current deal when the next Test broadcast rights deal is signed if things continue the way they are...

Unfortunately Cricket Australia will probably reap a huge TV deal from the BBL and trumpet it's record TV deal instead of actually addressing the fact it has sold Shield and Test Cricket down the river.
 

Bazal

Post Whore
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99,923
I don't think enough is said about the balls, in a vaguely related point. That's not to say in any way that the trouble with Aussie cricket is because of the balls, of course. But we've spoken on here time and time again about pitches and playing style and coaching and all that. Plus I thought here was as good a thread as any to mention it.

Has anyone noticed the collapse in quality of the Kookaburra balls? Not just on TV but actually in person? They rough up and start to soften so much earlier that they seem almost impossible to swing these days after a few overs. Used to be a four piece red ball would swing for a whole 50 over innings if you looked after it, absolutely no worries. These days at club level we're having to replace balls every now and again. A big hitting opener (which we see more and more of in modern cricket) can hit the shine off the thing in a few overs....

Now obviously Test and State cricket uses better balls (I believe) than the four piecers we pick up at Rebel sport or whatever, but I generally think when the quality of a product declines it tends to show across all products and I certainly notice more balls being questioned or replaced at international level. And ultimately, kids use these balls even if the top players don't....

Anyway, like I said it's only very vaguely related, but it's something I've wondered about for a while.
 

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