Dragons vs Hull

[Carlton]

Guys he’s 6 games and a trial into his FG career. He will learn to link with his outside men, he actually had 3 try assists last year (which was par for Duges for a whole season).

I’m not completely sold on him yet but he has all the tools to be a very good fullback.

You are right he has only had 6 first grade games and he may or may not learn to link with his outside men. What I find hard is the people talking him up as if he is on par with Billy Slater. He shows potential but there are some glaring deficiencies in his game currently, its not running him down talking about them. Its being realistic about where we are at with regards to a long term fullback, which is we have a young guy showing some promise, who did well in the lower grades who needs to improve certain areas.

PS: Two of those three try assists came in the one game and he shouldn't have passed for at least one of them, he should have gone himself. Out of seven games he has only produced try assists in two games. In the seven games he has played he has not been a try scoring machine or laying on tries through ball playing. Lets not mix up potential with results.

 

[giboz71]

You are right he has only had 6 first grade games and he may or may not learn to link with his outside men. What I find hard is the people talking him up as if he is on par with Billy Slater. He shows potential but there are some glaring deficiencies in his game currently, its not running him down talking about them. Its being realistic about where we are at with regards to a long term fullback, which is we have a young guy showing some promise, who did well in the lower grades who needs to improve certain areas.

PS: Two of those three try assists came in the one game and he shouldn't have passed for at least one of them, he should have gone himself. Out of seven games he has only produced try assists in two games. In the seven games he has played he has not been a try scoring machine or laying on tries through ball playing. Lets not mix up potential with results.

Don’t disagree with you he’s got a ways to go, but how much of our cap are we using to pay Dufty?? I’d be shocked if it was more than 200k at this stage of his career. And we only have him contracted to the end of next year so we’re not locked in long term. If he ends up killing it at FB, then all the better and we’ll pay him what he’s worth.

Our other alternative was to stay with Duges and pay him his asking price for the next 4 years.

That would have been a much bigger risk.

 

[denis preston]

You are right he has only had 6 first grade games and he may or may not learn to link with his outside men. What I find hard is the people talking him up as if he is on par with Billy Slater. He shows potential but there are some glaring deficiencies in his game currently, its not running him down talking about them. Its being realistic about where we are at with regards to a long term fullback, which is we have a young guy showing some promise, who did well in the lower grades who needs to improve certain areas.

PS: Two of those three try assists came in the one game and he shouldn't have passed for at least one of them, he should have gone himself. Out of seven games he has only produced try assists in two games. In the seven games he has played he has not been a try scoring machine or laying on tries through ball playing. Lets not mix up potential with results.

Carlton we are talking about 6 games last year where he played behind a busted pack. The only game he played where the pack excelled was Manly and look how he went then .

 

[RufusRex]

Carlton we are talking about 6 games last year where he played behind a busted pack. The only game he played where the pack excelled was Manly and look how he went then .

ahem .. Titans.

 

[RufusRex]

ok ... when I said slater I was not actually trying to compare them per say .. I was just saying that Dufty was a log way behind him ... I don't know if he will ever get to that level but there is a lot of smoke being blown up his behind premateurely.

 

[Carlton]

Don’t disagree with you he’s got a ways to go, but how much of our cap are we using to pay Dufty?? I’d be shocked if it was more than 200k at this stage of his career. And we only have him contracted to the end of next year so we’re not locked in long term. If he ends up killing it at FB, then all the better and we’ll pay him what he’s worth.

Our other alternative was to stay with Duges and pay him his asking price for the next 4 years.

That would have been a much bigger risk.

You're right about Dufty, I agree 100%. He is cheap and the club have not over committed, he shows promise and he could possibly be a world beater if he can improve in some areas. I am not saying get rid of Dufty or that he will never make it. My argument is purely it doesn't matter whether he has played one game or three hundred, if we look at his performances there are things that need fixing. My other argument is if we knew Hunt was coming and Widdop was being renewed, why spend all that money on the spine and then take a risk with the fullback. I would have liked to see Dufty given time when Nightingale was playing fullback. The more time he had last year the more of an idea the club would have about his potential and if it was necessary to look elsewhere. If he was showing improvement and addressing his deficiencies the club could have been confident to invest time and money in him. At the moment I get the feeling that the club see him as a possibility as long term fullback but are not yet convinced.

 

[Saints of George]

Sorry for being late to the party. I've been away on holidays and away from Wifi so only caught up with the game yesterday. Hugh apologies if this has been covered already.

Although sloppy I saw lots of things to be excited about. Firstly, with Hunt, Dufty and Nighty our right hand side is gonna be potent this year! Finally we have a fullback who can pass a ball.
Agreed, the Widdop/Hunt combo needs some work but that'll come with time. A little more patients and we'll be right.

But what impressed me most is that Hull gave us a run for our money and we hung in there for 80mins and walked away with the win. Something that we'd have lost in the second half of last season.

 

[Old Timer]

Guys he’s 6 games and a trial into his FG career. He will learn to link with his outside men, he actually had 3 try assists last year (which was par for Duges for a whole season).

I’m not completely sold on him yet but he has all the tools to be a very good fullback.

Very hard to link up with people who aren't there.
The only 2 players who might keep up with him over the first 20 are Widdop and Mann forget the rest.
Unless they drop back to the defensive line and follow him who will Dufty have to pass to?
By the time Dufty hits top speed on an angled run who will be fast enough to drop back under him?
No one thus his propensity to beet the man on the outside.
What he needs to learn is sometimes he has to centre the play by keeping 15 meters in from either sideline and that will become natural to him very quickly I'm sure.
If he continues to run to the sidelines to find slow support then he will have an issue.

 

[2010]

For most of last season we were all calling for Dufty to get a run in first grade.
He got that chance and handled it OK.
There are people that say is our future fullback and others are not so sure,
Both views are relevant.
It’s a big step up for him and we should accept he won’t be the gun fullback at this stage of his career.
We won’t be able to make a definitive judgement till later on in the season.
He is going to have good games and not good games.
He is on a learning curve and we should be prepared for that.
I hope he will cement his position, it’s up to him.

 

[Carlton]

Very hard to link up with people who aren't there.
The only 2 players who might keep up with him over the first 20 are Widdop and Mann forget the rest.
Unless they drop back to the defensive line and follow him who will Dufty have to pass to?
By the time Dufty hits top speed on an angled run who will be fast enough to drop back under him?
No one thus his propensity to beet the man on the outside.
What he needs to learn is sometimes he has to centre the play by keeping 15 meters in from either sideline and that will become natural to him very quickly I'm sure.
If he continues to run to the sidelines to find slow support then he will have an issue.

OT he wasn't running to the sideline to find support, he was trying to run around the defence himself. The difference in speed between Dufty and other members of the team over 20-30 meters is not that great that he cant link with them.

What you say about he needs to play 15 meters in is spot on. If you are going to ball play you run at the inside shoulder not the outside shoulder of the defender (I know this is a generalisation). What I would like to see, when he chimes into the backline is aim at a gap between two defenders and try to draw the outside defender in. If the outside defender moves in, pass. If the outside defender doesn't come in dummy and go and try to beat the inside defender with pace. I would also like to see him not running at 100% all the time. His big weapon is his acceleration, I would like to see him running a bit within himself and then be able to accelerate past the defender. This also makes it harder to use angles when defending to negate the speed difference.

 

[ouryear]

You are right he has only had 6 first grade games and he may or may not learn to link with his outside men. What I find hard is the people talking him up as if he is on par with Billy Slater. He shows potential but there are some glaring deficiencies in his game currently, its not running him down talking about them. Its being realistic about where we are at with regards to a long term fullback, which is we have a young guy showing some promise, who did well in the lower grades who needs to improve certain areas.

PS: Two of those three try assists came in the one game and he shouldn't have passed for at least one of them, he should have gone himself. Out of seven games he has only produced try assists in two games. In the seven games he has played he has not been a try scoring machine or laying on tries through ball playing. Lets not mix up potential with results.

You should pull number 1 on and run out then.

 

[Carlton]

You should pull number 1 on and run out then.

I'd have to grease the wheels on the zimmer frame.

 

[possm]

Don’t disagree with you he’s got a ways to go, but how much of our cap are we using to pay Dufty?? I’d be shocked if it was more than 200k at this stage of his career. And we only have him contracted to the end of next year so we’re not locked in long term. If he ends up killing it at FB, then all the better and we’ll pay him what he’s worth.

Our other alternative was to stay with Duges and pay him his asking price for the next 4 years.

That would have been a much bigger risk.

In my opinion we have two alternatives to Dufty; Field and Lomax. So let's just see how Dufty goes and if he goes well then great. If he fails then it will be time to choose between Field and Lomax. I don't subscribe to the idea of Widdop or Nightingale at fullback and right now, I like Mann at right centre.

 

[2010]

In my opinion we have two alternatives to Dufty; Field and Lomax. So let's just see how Dufty goes and if he goes well then great. If he fails then it will be time to choose between Field and Lomax. I don't subscribe to the idea of Widdop or Nightingale at fullback and right now, I like Mann at right centre.

 

[Old Timer]

I see the latest McFookknuckle presser added to the Articles thread somewhat debunks the “high training workload we didn’t taper” excuse for the pedestrian showing against Hull
He says it was about attitude or lack there of especially to defence and talks up the 7 line breaks
Also love the way it is called an exhibition match “we exhibited the new playing strip” and not much more and to top it off Hull described as ESL heavyweights.

 

[The Damo]

I see the latest McvFookknuckle presser added to the Articles thread somewhat debunks the “high training workload we didn’t taper” excuse for the pedestrian showing against Hull
He says it was about attitude or lack there of especially to defence and talks up the 7 line breaks
Also love the way it is called an exhibition match “we exhibited the new playing strip” and not much more and to top it off Hull described as ESL heavyweights.

Not sure you’ve noticed OT - but you’ve argued first that we should take Mary at his word when it agrees with your argument RE training workload. Then pointed out that he’s waffling bullshit with his Next statement.
The sooner everyone realises that he largely talks bullsit, excuses, waffle and whatever he thinks makes him look best the better.
Modern sports science does taper workloads for athletes. It’s entirely feasible for nrl players to look like their fitness is under par a couple of weeks before they are meant to be at peak capacity. Whether that’s the case we Won’t know till the season proper starts, but using Marys words to back your case when we all know he’s dreck is unconvincing.

 

[Old Timer]

Not sure you’ve noticed OT - but you’ve argued first that we should take Mary at his word when it agrees with your argument RE training workload. Then pointed out that he’s waffling bullshit with his Next statement.
The sooner everyone realises that he largely talks bullsit, excuses, waffle and whatever he thinks makes him look best the better.
Modern sports science does taper workloads for athletes. It’s entirely feasible for nrl players to look like their fitness is under par a couple of weeks before they are meant to be at peak capacity. Whether that’s the case we Won’t know till the season proper starts, but using Marys words to back your case when we all know he’s dreck is unconvincing.

Not sure what page you are on or what you are reading into it.
I posted straight after the Hull game how shit I thought we were and people came up with the lame arse excuse "we didn't taper" which I totally rejected.
This post is to show that Mc Fookknuckle made no mention of "we didn't taper" as an excuse but rather said we had an attitude problem and suffered defensive lapses in the game against Hull which he clearly says is not good enough.
Neither of the above have anything to do with "tapering" and clearly show that yet again our team didn't have its head and heart in the right place and that is according to the coach himself.

 

[The Damo]

My point is

Not sure what page you are on or what you are reading into it.
I posted straight after the Hull game how shit I thought we were and people came up with the lame arse excuse "we didn't taper" which I totally rejected.
This post is to show that Mc Fookknuckle made no mention of "we didn't taper" as an excuse but rather said we had an attitude problem and suffered defensive lapses in the game against Hull which he clearly says is not good enough.
Neither of the above have anything to do with "tapering" and clearly show that yet again our team didn't have its head and heart in the right place and that is according to the coach himself.

my point is you clearly believe the coach is a moron. I agree. You also use his words to back up your argument. My point is that what Mary says or doesn’t say about tapering doesn’t mean much, because he’s a self aggrandising moron. Training workloads and tapering are an actual thing that effects athletes performance. The fact that you don’t buy it, or that Mary doesn’t mention it is irrelevant. When the season starts, Ifthose players who looked flat or lacking stamina don’t look that way any longer, then it was likely a factor.

 

[kit66]

I finally got to see this whole game yesterday and was quite surprised at how different it was from the Charity Shield. Saw some very promising things and others that showed my worst fears coming true.

The Good,
Hunt, Leilua, Mann on our right defending stoutly and holding the line all first half. The same combo looking menacing in attack especially when Dufty got involved - needs some work but I liked what I saw.
Maybe the answer to who replaces Thompson on that left edge is to put Frizell there and keep Leilua on the right where he looks comfortable, in fact I'm surprised we didn't see it in the CS.
Lomax is just weeks away from 1sts, looks comfortable out there physically.
Nene's a beast ! Should have been bundled into touch twice...." too big, too strong ! ". Left wing's his.

The Bad.
Our left side.....full of holes, Sims and Host aren't our answer there. Another reason to try Frizell out there. Does Host know how tackle, he's all arms and no shoulder, he also looks lost most of the time. Our whole line on the left is so disjointed and it starts from the middle all the way out to the flank, no co-hesion, no communication. Sliding while running backwards is a recipe for disaster especially if some of your line are doing that while others are rushing up, crazy stuff.

The Ugly,
The second half - putting Host and Aitken on the right, jaysus, ugly's the word. I felt vindicated in my criticisms of these two planks after that showing. Host is useless, end of story. Aitken has one trick, run Forrest run ! Dufty makes a 40 metre break down the right, Hull are at 6's and 7's, we're a good chance to score if we swing it left quickly, Aitken takes the ball from dummy half and runs straight at the only defenders Hull have ready, doesn't look, doesn't pass, gets tackled. Mann would have been looking for Hunt or Widdop before he even got to dummy half and then got a quick pass away or ran to draw a defender then passed, he would have done something useful anyway.

Interesting game but it seems our illustrious coach didn't get a lot from it.

 

[Frank Facer]

I finally got to see this whole game yesterday and was quite surprised at how different it was from the Charity Shield. Saw some very promising things and others that showed my worst fears coming true.

The Good,
Hunt, Leilua, Mann on our right defending stoutly and holding the line all first half. The same combo looking menacing in attack especially when Dufty got involved - needs some work but I liked what I saw.
Maybe the answer to who replaces Thompson on that left edge is to put Frizell there and keep Leilua on the right where he looks comfortable, in fact I'm surprised we didn't see it in the CS.
Lomax is just weeks away from 1sts, looks comfortable out there physically.
Nene's a beast ! Should have been bundled into touch twice...." too big, too strong ! ". Left wing's his.

The Bad.
Our left side.....full of holes, Sims and Host aren't our answer there. Another reason to try Frizell out there. Does Host know how tackle, he's all arms and no shoulder, he also looks lost most of the time. Our whole line on the left is so disjointed and it starts from the middle all the way out to the flank, no co-hesion, no communication. Sliding while running backwards is a recipe for disaster especially if some of your line are doing that while others are rushing up, crazy stuff.

The Ugly,
The second half - putting Host and Aitken on the right, jaysus, ugly's the word. I felt vindicated in my criticisms of these two planks after that showing. Host is useless, end of story. Aitken has one trick, run Forrest run ! Dufty makes a 40 metre break down the right, Hull are at 6's and 7's, we're a good chance to score if we swing it left quickly, Aitken takes the ball from dummy half and runs straight at the only defenders Hull have ready, doesn't look, doesn't pass, gets tackled. Mann would have been looking for Hunt or Widdop before he even got to dummy half and then got a quick pass away or ran to draw a defender then passed, he would have done something useful anyway.

Interesting game but it seems our illustrious coach didn't get a lot from it.

Good post