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Finals round 2 AT HOME! Vs Tigers (Or Dragons)

steven_tiger

Juniors
Messages
1,437
Even if we get through to next week you blokes will give us a hiding. We are shot. We won't be able to field a team we have that many injuries.

It's highly likely we'll be without:
- Marshall
- Lawrence
- Fulton
- Ellis
- Moltzen
- Tuikai
- Daniella
- McKinnon

Add to that the total devestation of losing that game last night (which I'm still gutted about) and the double whammy of the game going for 100 minutes, you blokes will embarrass us down there.

Wish it was on Saturday - I won't be able to go on Friday (providing St George win).
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
Oh and I'm ignoring the Roosters as I don't believe they are any hope of winning this weekend... Granted if Manly somehow won then they would get a week off... Either way that would be the second Raiders ex-coach in a row (Dragons next week).

If they have to play next week at all the Roosters will take on a Panthers side with some nasty injury problems.... I think they'll start favourites in that game.
 

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
The side that beat Penrith last night at Penrith didn't employ tactics too much different to the side that were going to run over the top of Penrith in Round 1 but got beaten by an intercept try. The Raiders this year have been in every single game they have played, really only Roosters away was one where we just didn't compete for the majority of it.

The Round 1 match at Penrith was a scoreline of 34-16, 18 points, 3 converted tries, 6 tries to 3. The Raiders came back somewhat in the second half after being overrun in the first. They were never in it. Penrith I think played about as well last night as they did in that game, but faced a much better team this time. Better than the Bruce match, too, in which the Raiders used a second half glut of possession to get on top. The Raiders have improved immensely in the second half of this season. They'll win next week too, but the Dragons in Sydney will be a tough assignment, if thats how it pans out.
 
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Timbo

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
20,272
Woodgers,

Let me ask you this.

If I had said one of the two following things to you at the beginning of the season:

(1) - We will win 5 games in the first 17 rounds.

or

(2) - We wil win 8 of our last 9 games.

How would you imagine the season went, recieving one of those two pieces of information?

If I had given you option 1, I think you'd probably immediately assume we either had a catastrophic injury toll (which we didn't) or we played pretty ordinary football (which we did for a good chunk of it).

If I had given you option 2, I think you'd imagine we ran top 4. I certainly would. What kind of amazing run is that?

Whatever your argument is, our tactics did change around the halfway mark of the season, McCrone stopped being limited to a tiny sliver of the field and Campo was given licence to take on the line more. We also started seing a specialist dummy half which improved our service and gave us a dummy half threat. I give Furner massive credit for this, under Elliot he would have kept thrashing away with the same game plan and we'd have run 14th or so. Furner recognised a flaw and changed it, and as such I'm starting to change my views on him.

It has been a brilliant end to the season, but not for one minute, not for one SECOND do I think I was wrong to put the boot in at the beginning of the season. We've come good now and it's fantastic. I'm confident it'll keep up.
 

Dazraider

Juniors
Messages
1,134
I dont get it woodgers, how havent the raiders changed their game plan.
You have to change your game plan when you lose a player like Thompson who was making all the line breaks and croker was hardly getting any ball at the time.
when you have Kelly on the wing you have to change you game plan as he was a weak link.
Campese has been running the ball more often so obviously that has changed with McCrone being so much more involved.
Monaghan in the centres is not the same game plan you would have as him being on the wing and Buttriss being the starting hooker had to be changed from tounges style of play as well.
they have obviously changed there lines as even when they got the ball they couldnt be close to breaking the line so that had to be altered to be recieveing the ball earlier or later and changing the line your running into to.
Not a chance we would be where we are if we stuck to the same game plan from day 1 and waddell has obviously been allowed to run the ball at will that taking his one or two steps then passing.
 
Messages
3,445
If the Dragons lose this week we play them next week on Saturday

If Dragons win today and we win next week , we play the Dragons
 

Mullins_y2k

Juniors
Messages
712
Its cool that we inadvertently knocked out the Warriors...Remember when they did that to us a couple of years back by beating the Storm! Also how they beat us in that Semi a while back when Bugga dropped it over the line!!! :p
thats all :)
 

woodgers

Bench
Messages
3,569
The Round 1 match at Penrith was a scoreline of 34-16, 18 points, 3 converted tries, 6 tries to 3. The Raiders came back somewhat in the second half after being overrun in the first. They were never in it. Penrith I think played about as well last night as they did in that game, but faced a much better team this time. Better than the Bruce match, too, in which the Raiders used a second half glut of possession to get on top. The Raiders have improved immensely in the second half of this season. They'll win next week too, but the Dragons in Sydney will be a tough assignment, if thats how it pans out.

What do you mean they were never in it? The Raiders scored 16 unanswered points in the 2nd half and had Purtell not caught that ball, it was probably going to be all tied up at 22 all. This after the Raiders lost 2 forwards in the first half, both early on. To say they were never in that game is ridiculous. It was one that got away in the end.
 

woodgers

Bench
Messages
3,569
Woodgers,

Let me ask you this.

If I had said one of the two following things to you at the beginning of the season:

(1) - We will win 5 games in the first 17 rounds.

or

(2) - We wil win 8 of our last 9 games.

How would you imagine the season went, recieving one of those two pieces of information?

If I had given you option 1, I think you'd probably immediately assume we either had a catastrophic injury toll (which we didn't) or we played pretty ordinary football (which we did for a good chunk of it).

If I had given you option 2, I think you'd imagine we ran top 4. I certainly would. What kind of amazing run is that?

Whatever your argument is, our tactics did change around the halfway mark of the season, McCrone stopped being limited to a tiny sliver of the field and Campo was given licence to take on the line more. We also started seing a specialist dummy half which improved our service and gave us a dummy half threat. I give Furner massive credit for this, under Elliot he would have kept thrashing away with the same game plan and we'd have run 14th or so. Furner recognised a flaw and changed it, and as such I'm starting to change my views on him.

It has been a brilliant end to the season, but not for one minute, not for one SECOND do I think I was wrong to put the boot in at the beginning of the season. We've come good now and it's fantastic. I'm confident it'll keep up.

I think you were completely wrong to put the boot in because it really isn't rocket science to realise that we have a team with a lot of guys who are very inexperienced that were in danger of suffering the dreaded 2nd year syndrome that is widely acknowledged. The coach was in a similar boat and was likely to improve as we went on. Add to that we started with an influx of away games and ended with more home games and it really hasn't been as unexpected as you seem to think.

The problem I think is that you don't seem to understand what the long term strategy the club is trying to employ. We have quite clearly decided that due to the numerous problems with attracting good players to Canberra and building a team in that fashion, we were trying to take the knocks for long term gain. That was the point of creating an champion U20's team and keeping them together. This wasn't a secret and like I say if you understand professional sport and the game you'd have given the team the grace to get to that next level. The most surprising thing is that they've done it so quickly.

So while you were so gleefully sticking the boot into them for not winning, we were actually building towards what we have now. The way you slandered the team and coach during that period shows that you either didn't understand the bigger picture of what we were trying to achieve, or that you just want to slam them because you can't see past 'we're winning/we're losing'.

As I say I don't read this board frequently, however what might help is if you apologised to the players and coach who might have read some of the dispicable comments you've made this year. They were poor comments too and lets be honest, you were wrong.

You were a major player in asking the club to dismiss McCrone and that has proven to be incorrect. He just needed time like most the team. You wanted the coach removed and that was wrong too, he has manufactured such passion and belief in the club and team that everyone we've wanted to re-sign has, and other decent players are jumping on board.

My biggest problem Timbo is that you are a moderator on this site and for me that holds a degree of responsibility. I'm not saying don't be critical, I am too for sure, but you have been one of the most negative, poisonous posters here and have taken every chance and more to deride your own football club. That isn't a fan as far as i'm concerned. The word supporter comes about because apparently you are offering support. I'm most cases this year you aren't offering any support, you are doing the complete opposite. Therefore you can express your case that you buy your membership and purchase your jersey to help the club, but what you do on possibly the biggest RL forum in regards to the game counteracts that. The stuff i've read from you this year (at the very least) has convinced me that you've been so destructive in trying to shape other fans opinions that we'd be far better off without your $300 a year. That is just how I feel.

Enjoy Friday anyway. However as I said in my original post you don't really deserve to enjoy it after your actions.
 

woodgers

Bench
Messages
3,569
I dont get it woodgers, how havent the raiders changed their game plan.
You have to change your game plan when you lose a player like Thompson who was making all the line breaks and croker was hardly getting any ball at the time.
when you have Kelly on the wing you have to change you game plan as he was a weak link.
Campese has been running the ball more often so obviously that has changed with McCrone being so much more involved.
Monaghan in the centres is not the same game plan you would have as him being on the wing and Buttriss being the starting hooker had to be changed from tounges style of play as well.
they have obviously changed there lines as even when they got the ball they couldnt be close to breaking the line so that had to be altered to be recieveing the ball earlier or later and changing the line your running into to.
Not a chance we would be where we are if we stuck to the same game plan from day 1 and waddell has obviously been allowed to run the ball at will that taking his one or two steps then passing.

Daz, thanks for your assessment. I ask, have you ever been involved in team sport in any capacity? I ask this because the way a team plays is inbuilt, it won't change dramatically whether Kelly is named on the wing or Tongue goes to hooker. These guys train from November nowadays, to Mad Monday. The patterns and system is the same and you work with whoever is in that top 25 players tweaking it as necessary but sticking to the same fundamentals.

For example, the Raiders and Dragons are always going to play a forwards orientated game. It is a territory heavy plan, where big blokes up the middle, high completions and minimal risk is the key. The Tigers however are the opposite and so are the Titans and Roosters who are happy to shift it sideline to sideline. It is just the way the squad is taught to play. The Tigers trouble us because they move the ball and stay out the middle 3rd, the Dragons not so much because we do what they do better than they can on most occasions. The point is, teams work to a system and don't stray much from it in an season.

The Raiders haven't changed. Please go and find the report from the SMH after the Raiders trial v Dogs at Dubbo and listen to what Dave Furner tells them before and during the game. It is interesting reading. However it is exactly what we do now.

The biggest difference in the 2nd half of the season as i've said is that the players have matured and now execute the plan better. Shillo and TLL came back from origin better players and now bash every other team in the first 20, Tilse and Logan back it up so our big prop rotation is the key. Territory. However from round 1 that was our plan, not sideline to sideline. Then Waddell got better from dummy half and assisted the go forward and territory. Still no fundamental change to the plan. McCrone revealed after the Brookvale game that he started overuling Campo after his spell at Souths Logan and he has gained confidence in that ever since, plus improved his game too. No fundamental change to what DF wants, just a better result from his 7 and why he dropped him. And so it goes on.

The Raiders game plan is pretty simple guys and works to the teams and the coachs strength, bash the opposition up the middle and win the territory. Once you start to do that, the opposition realises they are going backwards and not getting field position so they shift players to that middle 3rd to stop it. Then there are opportunities out wider and more space for Campo, Croker, Dugan, Joel Thompson to work in. The game has been going for over 100 years but the fundamentals are the same, win that middle battle with territory and the rest follows. Nothing more or less.
 

Cryptic

Juniors
Messages
1,450
The winner (Us) will play the Dragons, at "Win" stadium, although being so small they NRL MAY force them to take it to the SFS or somewhere which has a capacity over 7....
 
Messages
3,445
The winner (Us) will play the Dragons, at "Win" stadium, although being so small they NRL MAY force them to take it to the SFS or somewhere which has a capacity over 7....

The games in the 3rd week of finals goes regional.

therefore the titans will play the winner of the Roosters/Penrith at Suncorp

The winner fo our game ( I agree us ) will play in Sydney , not sure if its Homebush or SFS
 

legend

Coach
Messages
15,150
We will play the Dragons at the SFS as we don't have the fanbase to fill ANZ. If the Tigers win, then the Dragons will play them at ANZ. I'd expect for us to have at least 10-15k of Raiders fans if we make the qualifier. Obviously there will be some bandwagon fans but I'm ok with that. I'd also imagine this would be a great shot in the arm for the Raiders Army.
 

sydraider

First Grade
Messages
5,704
Didnt think any of it was aimed at me bro.

Will know by wednesday if we are coming down, would love to have a beer with ya champ, its been too long.
 
Messages
11,434
Daz, thanks for your assessment. I ask, have you ever been involved in team sport in any capacity? I ask this because the way a team plays is inbuilt, it won't change dramatically whether Kelly is named on the wing or Tongue goes to hooker. These guys train from November nowadays, to Mad Monday. The patterns and system is the same and you work with whoever is in that top 25 players tweaking it as necessary but sticking to the same fundamentals.

For example, the Raiders and Dragons are always going to play a forwards orientated game. It is a territory heavy plan, where big blokes up the middle, high completions and minimal risk is the key. The Tigers however are the opposite and so are the Titans and Roosters who are happy to shift it sideline to sideline. It is just the way the squad is taught to play. The Tigers trouble us because they move the ball and stay out the middle 3rd, the Dragons not so much because we do what they do better than they can on most occasions. The point is, teams work to a system and don't stray much from it in an season.

The Raiders haven't changed. Please go and find the report from the SMH after the Raiders trial v Dogs at Dubbo and listen to what Dave Furner tells them before and during the game. It is interesting reading. However it is exactly what we do now.

The biggest difference in the 2nd half of the season as i've said is that the players have matured and now execute the plan better. Shillo and TLL came back from origin better players and now bash every other team in the first 20, Tilse and Logan back it up so our big prop rotation is the key. Territory. However from round 1 that was our plan, not sideline to sideline. Then Waddell got better from dummy half and assisted the go forward and territory. Still no fundamental change to the plan. McCrone revealed after the Brookvale game that he started overuling Campo after his spell at Souths Logan and he has gained confidence in that ever since, plus improved his game too. No fundamental change to what DF wants, just a better result from his 7 and why he dropped him. And so it goes on.

The Raiders game plan is pretty simple guys and works to the teams and the coachs strength, bash the opposition up the middle and win the territory. Once you start to do that, the opposition realises they are going backwards and not getting field position so they shift players to that middle 3rd to stop it. Then there are opportunities out wider and more space for Campo, Croker, Dugan, Joel Thompson to work in. The game has been going for over 100 years but the fundamentals are the same, win that middle battle with territory and the rest follows. Nothing more or less.

I agree with a lot of your assessment, but if we relied mostly on the "bash 'em in the forwards" mostly we wouldn't be where we are. Getting to the business end teams are able to counteract that easily.

It's the slick back line moves, the crisp passing, the 2nd man & decoys that are finally coming together. I thought I'd never see it at the Raiders. Watching the first half of '10, we were like headless chickens in the opposition 20. Much different case now
 

skeepe

Immortal
Messages
46,141
It has been a brilliant end to the season, but not for one minute, not for one SECOND do I think I was wrong to put the boot in at the beginning of the season. We've come good now and it's fantastic. I'm confident it'll keep up.

You're honestly not embarrassed that you publicly expressed a desire to set Raiders players on fire? Seriously?

Hell, I would be. I'm certainly embarrassed about the comment that has taken up residence in your signature, and wish I could take it back.
 
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