General discussion/ideas future NRL expansion.

[214Four]

The NRL is again considering expanding the competition from 16 teams to possibly 18 teams in the near future.
There has been strong interest from many different franchises. so far the main bids that have been put forward are;

* Brisbane Bombers, QLD
A potential 2nd Brisbane NRL team based in the city of Brisbane and playing out of Suncorp Stadium like the Brisbane Broncos.

FOR
Brisbane is big enough for more NRL teams. It will be alot easier for the non Broncos supporters spread around Brisbane to get to a Bombers game than a Jets game. They potentially will have a larger fan base to capitalise on based in the CBD. Brisbane CBD Team would have less effect on the Gold Coast Titans.
AGAINST
They are not really expanding into Brisbane, its more building onto Rugby League Territory the Broncos already own. they could negatively affect the Brisbane Broncos.



* Ipswich Jets, QLD
A potential 2nd Brisbane NRL team. Based in the 'Ipswich-Logan corridor' of southern Brisbane.
The bid proposes to build new training, administrative and possibly Leagues Club facilities at Springfield as it is centrally between Ipswich and Logan. The QLD government has garenteed to build a new Stadium in Springfield if the bid is successful.

FOR
Brisbane is big enough for more NRL teams. Ipswich Jets unlike the Bombers will be located outside the CBD and therefore will feel more like a second Brisbane team. huge population growth in the Ipswich - Logan area.
AGAINST
The Gold Coast Titans are not yet financially secure, another NRL team on the fringes of Brisbane and Gold Coast whilst the issues with the Titans could negatively affect both clubs.



* Central Coast Bears, NSW
A potential NRL team based in Gosford on the Central coast of NSW.

FOR
The bid has the most secure financial backing, Huge supporter base in 'NRL heartland', A world class stadium close to transport and even thousands of members.
AGAINST
There is already too many Sydney based teams. If successful the CC Bears would become the 11th Sydney team. I think the NRL has to act tough and either force a team to re-locate (although central coast fans do not want that), or if there is a merger or even a team to fold in sydney before the Central Coast Bears should be seriously considered.



* Central Queensland, QLD
A potential NRL team located at Rockhampton in central Queensland. If successful the government has garenteed to build a 20,000 seat stadium if bid is successful

FOR
'NRL heartland', The club would have massive financial backing, another Queensland Team.
AGAINST
The population is too small i would think at the moment to warrent an NRL team.



* West Coast Pirates, WA
A potential NRL team based in Perth.

FOR
An NRL team in Western Australia would truely expand the game, the tv revenue increase, a massive ex-pat NSW, QLD and NZer community. The reds have shown previously that they can be a success.
AGAINST
i can not see any real againsts for the West Coast Bid. LoL even the name has sorta grown on me. I get where they got the idea for pirates too, because the Indian Ocean is on the West coast of Australia, and the Indian Ocean (well the north western part) is full of pirates.



* Papua New Guinea
A potential NRL team based in Port Moresby, PNG. Not too much is known about the bid.

FOR
Its a massive 'Rugby League heartland' where RL is the number one sport. The PNG government has thrown its complete support in the bid. It would have the biggest support of all the bids. the massive local based talent to build team from.
AGAINST
The hight crime rate and poverty will make it difficult for the franchise to attract players and supporters from australia and New zealand. The issue with security at the games (as was shown as the last ARL match their), the less financially insecure private backers, a government thats recent record has shown to be unstable.



* South Island and Wellington bids, NZ
New zealand has shown interest to have a 2nd NRL team. two separate bids the 'south island' and 'wellington'. The south island bid want to play out of the islands larger cities like Christchurch and dunedin. The wellington bid wants to base itself out of NZ's capital with some games potentially moved to other cities in the south.

FOR
New Zealand is a growing RL nation, There is massive local talent, Almost half the NRL is made up of NZ/Pacific Islander backgrounds.
AGAINST
other than the small population of the cities of wellington and south island there is not much i can fault against a 2nd NZ team.

I would like to see the NRL commission make some actual discussions on expansion, businesses and people have put in alot of time and money and for the last few years neither Gallop or the sleepy NRL commission have made anything concrete.

If i was in charge of the NRL my descision would be;

AS EARLY AS POSSIBLE- i would announce that 2 teams will enter the competition in 2016, and that the clubs will be in perth and brisbane/SEQ.

FROM NOW TO EARLY 2014 - any interested franchises from those areas enter their bid.

MID 2014 - the wining francheises will be revealed.

2015 - both new teams will field an under 20s in the holden cup.

2016 - Both new teams enter the NRL.

having both under20s start a year earlier will give the clubs a chance to fix any potential mistakes in the organisation/running of the club before entering the NRL.

Both new clubs would recieve extra funding for players and costs and a larger salary cap. the first year the new franchises will be able to make an offer (nullifying previous contract commitments) on one contracted NRL player in each team. (the offers the new clubs make on contracted players would be subject to a minimum % increase on the original contract. this can be be used as a transfer fee/compensation to the club loosing a player and also can prevent the new clubs buying the best in each team.)

what are peoples thoughts on the expansions plans? what number do you think the NRL should be looking at and what format they think would make the NRL even better?

I believe 4 teams or even 5 should exentually be included, that way with a 20 or 21 team competition every team plays each other once, one year at home the next away. with 5 new teams everyone gets a bye (with each team except last place being able to pick when they want the bye next year with first choice going to premiers and so forth).

I have only included the first expansion, my next post ill write up my thoughts on the next expansion phase

 

[ash the bash]

You forgot to mention the Brothers bid.

 

[Perth Red]

It is much more likely going to be review end of 2014, call for submissions 2015 announcement end of 2015, entry 2017/18 sadly.

Having said that David Smith recently spent a few days in Perth meeting the WA Govt, checking out our Jnr programmes, visiting the refurbished nib and finding out more about the WARL's financial backers so who knows? maybe the review is underway on the quiet?

 

[Perth Red]

You forgot to mention the Brothers bid.

I am expecting these guys to be the late runner on the outside that comes through and pips everyone at the post. They have a massive grass roots infrastructure to call open, could become Australias first non geographic specific team (in same way NZ warriors are for NZ) and have the only historic brand recginition out of the Brisbane bids. If they can tick the financial backing box they would be my Fave for that brisbane2 spot.

 

[Diesel]

There's 3 bids/areas that need teams.

CC, WA and Brisbane 2 were all around prior to SL, get these areas teams and NZ2 within the next 2 expansion rounds

 

[ash the bash]

I am expecting these guys to be the late runner on the outside that comes through and pips everyone at the post. They have a massive grass roots infrastructure to call open, could become Australias first non geographic specific team (in same way NZ warriors are for NZ) and have the only historic brand recginition out of the Brisbane bids. If they can tick the financial backing box they would be my Fave for that brisbane2 spot.

Agree mate, I like the idea of them playing about 3-4 games in other Brothers area's. Could have a few home games in Cairns etc.. Plus they are on opposite scale to the Broncos, the Bombers come off as a carbon copy or a B grade version of the Broncos IMO.

 

[Stormwarrior]

I read somewhere that the federal gov and opposition will both spend $500,000 on a feasibility study for a Rockhampton stadium. Not computer savvy enough to post link but I'm sure someone is. Disregard didn't notice the info in the other thread!!

 

[TheDalek079]

one of the expansion team should be called the SBWs.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Agree mate, I like the idea of them playing about 3-4 games in other Brothers area's. Could have a few home games in Cairns etc.. Plus they are on opposite scale to the Broncos, the Bombers come off as a carbon copy or a B grade version of the Broncos IMO.

Not only could they play those 3 or 4 matches around Queensland and Northern Territory, when other teams head regional (Souths in Cairns/ Dogs in Mackey/ Roosters to Darwin ) their game against the Brothers would be the best one to take as it would bring out better crowds than say playing Penrith or something random.

Just adding this team could end up producing 7 or 8 regional games in QLD that actually feature a well loved QLD team.

 

[Stormwarrior]

Brothers bid does seem pretty impressive. However the jury is still out with me. The only problem I have is that they may have access to 100,000 juniors around Aus but when you divide that between 50 odd club\towns it would ultimately shrink the crowds. Like souths, they have a massive fan base and great membership numbers around Aus but crowds are smaller in comparison to other clubs\membership base. So I just hope that they consider that issue.

 

[Perth Red]

Brothers bid does seem pretty impressive. However the jury is still out with me. The only problem I have is that they may have access to 100,000 juniors around Aus but when you divide that between 50 odd club\towns it would ultimately shrink the crowds. Like souths, they have a massive fan base and great membership numbers around Aus but crowds are smaller in comparison to other clubs\membership base. So I just hope that they consider that issue.

Like any expansion club their goal will be around 15-20k avg at home then they will enjoy a bigger membership base than most IF they can convert all the Brothers clubs players and supporters to become members of the NRL Brothers.

IMO ideally the announcement end of 2014 should be WC Pirates and Brothers Leprechauns to enter in 2017 and CC Bears and Wellington/CQ/Adelaide 2020

 

[byrner]

One of the major issues with expansion is we dont know if the new team will have supporters and be stable in the back office.
Other issues for entry into the NRL is the cost, it is a lot of money to risk, and if there is enough talent to support it.

Why not create a true second devission in which these expansion clubs could enter and if they are good enough be put into the top grade.

You would pick the strongest clubs from nsw and qld cups, and any expansion clubs and built a TRUE second grade. It works in other sports.

This will also solve the problem of people leaving NYC and not being able to Make NRL.

 

[gyallop]

What part of Brothers couldnt raise enough money to survive in the BRL with the best licenced club in the 80s then even with help could not raise enough money or attract enough quality players to survive in the Qld Cup when they were brought back dont some of the posters here get?

If Brothers actually do the expensive due diligence (ie do some more than just having the ex AFL marketing guy spruiking the "bid") I will be keen to see how they plan to fund this potential Titanic.

 

[Perth Red]

One of the major issues with expansion is we dont know if the new team will have supporters and be stable in the back office.
Other issues for entry into the NRL is the cost, it is a lot of money to risk, and if there is enough talent to support it.

Why not create a true second devission in which these expansion clubs could enter and if they are good enough be put into the top grade.

You would pick the strongest clubs from nsw and qld cups, and any expansion clubs and built a TRUE second grade. It works in other sports.

This will also solve the problem of people leaving NYC and not being able to Make NRL.

Will cost about $15mill a year for two new NRL teams, will cost about $40mill a year for a second division! There is a reason there is no pro second divisions in any sport in Australia.

 

[Perth Red]

One area for expansion that needs a different approach by the NRL is PNG. I would like to see them sit down with the PNGRL and work out a long term plan to one day seeing a Port Moresby team in the NRL. Might take 20 years but how amazing would it be to have a PNG side in the comp? The Aust Govt puts in $500mill a year in Ozaid to PNG, we know the power sport can have in driving cultural change, health messages, community respect, anti violence messages etc etc. SUrely the NRL can be working with PNG and the oz Govt to use RL as a massive driver of social change for the country. RL is like a religion in PNG, every school plays it, the player talent and depth is massive. With a decent development programme, better scouting, more focussed funding and a development timeline it is not impossible we could see a PNG lighting up the NRL in years to come.

First steps would be a PNG side in Q'land cup (plans are there) and a national stadium of 25k in Port Moreseby built. This would also be a home for the Kumuls and allow them to host full test matches against Oz, NZ and England again. The NRL lobbying the Australian Govt for a new working visa class for RL players would be a good move as well.

Now might be an opportune time
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational...3a-health-and-safety-at-the-forefront/4821588

 

[214Four]

I believe 4 teams or even 5 should exentually be included into the NRL. that way;

*(with 4 new teams and a 20 team competition)
every team plays each other once, with a rotating home and away, one year at home the next play the team away (like the super rugby competition). with stand alone state of origin and anzac rounds. competiton season runs for 23 weeks (19 weeks H&A and 4 weeks rep) with the same format for the finals.

*(with 5 new teams and a 21 team competition)
every team plays each other once, with a rotating home and away, one year at home the next play the team away (like the proposed 20 team competition). everyone gets a bye round, and each team in the order of last season placing choosing when they want to have to bye. (ie first choice going to premiers and so forth). also with stand alone state of origin and anzac rounds.
competiton season runs for 24 weeks (20 weeks H&A and 4 weeks rep) with the same format for the finals.

The teams i would add;
1. West Coast Pirates or a perth/wa based team (2016/17)
2. 2nd brisbane or SEQ team. (2016/17)
3. CC bears (2018 or if any syd team goes)
4. 2nd NZ team (2019/2020)
5. *A PNG team (2020 or later)

*i would change the PNG francheise alittle to make it more economically feasable and more attractive for players. I would base the team in Cairns or darwin where the players and their families will live. Also have their training facilities in cairns. Play the majority of games in PNG with afew each year in cairns and/ or darwin.

Already there are strong ties between PNG and cairns in terms of travel to and fro, including cairns allows the club extra sponsership protential and more attractive to players joining the club(who would otherwise not join due to concerns moving family to PNG with its social and crime issues). PNG RL fans would love it.

 

[Perth Red]

The interesting question would be with the right development could a png team win the NRL with purely home grown png players? If they can there is no need to worry about basing them in Australia to suit the oz/NZ/eng players.

 

[BrothersNRL]

What part of Brothers couldnt raise enough money to survive in the BRL with the best licenced club in the 80s then even with help could not raise enough money or attract enough quality players to survive in the Qld Cup when they were brought back dont some of the posters here get?

If Brothers actually do the expensive due diligence (ie do some more than just having the ex AFL marketing guy spruiking the "bid") I will be keen to see how they plan to fund this potential Titanic.

There'll be a lot of info coming shortly on how Brothers Leprechauns will operate. I think most people will be excited about some of the ideas that are put on the table.

Gyallop, an important thing to keep in mind is that the people at the helm of this bid have a proven track record in business and especially in regards to the operations of elite sporting teams. Some of the people involved are sure to pique interest across the code. In that regard this incarnation of the Brothers brand is quite different to what anyone has seen before. It will be a team with solid foundations built from many regional Brothers clubs, not just Brisbane.

You'll find that in time, the numbers will be on the table and what you'll find will be irresistible. It's a sure fire way to build the game and galvanise Rugby League heartlands.

 

[BrothersNRL]

Brothers bid does seem pretty impressive. However the jury is still out with me. The only problem I have is that they may have access to 100,000 juniors around Aus but when you divide that between 50 odd club\towns it would ultimately shrink the crowds. Like souths, they have a massive fan base and great membership numbers around Aus but crowds are smaller in comparison to other clubs\membership base. So I just hope that they consider that issue.

What we've been finding is that this team would service a market that has been neglected for some time. The people that will support Brothers don't necessarily have to be juniors or their families or other club members. That said, with the amount of confraternity clubs around Brisbane alone, a lot of support will already be there, not to mention the old school supporters that have been left out in the cold for many years.

In any case, some current bids, and teams currently playing in the NRL, came from nothing with no existing support, so it doesn't seem to be a pre-requisite. That means this bid is unusual in that regard and actually has a head start.

Brothers Leprechauns will be a great compliment to the existing teams in Queensland, which is an under-serviced Rugby League heartland.

 

[byrner]

Will cost about $15mill a year for two new NRL teams, will cost about $40mill a year for a second division! There is a reason there is no pro second divisions in any sport in Australia.

Where are you getting these figures from?