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Irish/Scottish teams in the ESL

jim_57

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Back to Scotland/Ireland, does anyone else think getting an Academy team in the English system could be just as useful, if not a better start for these nations? And Wales for that matter. Bringing through some genuine homegrown stars in to SL and having a competitive national team could really help any aspiring League 1 club from these countries.
 

Evil Homer

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7,178
Back to Scotland/Ireland, does anyone else think getting an Academy team in the English system could be just as useful, if not a better start for these nations? And Wales for that matter. Bringing through some genuine homegrown stars in to SL and having a competitive national team could really help any aspiring League 1 club from these countries.
Wales had a team in the system competing against SL academies up until this year, it didn't seem to do a whole lot in terms of bringing through pro players and I think it has now been dropped or at least the approach has been changed in some way.
 

jim_57

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Wales had a team in the system competing against SL academies up until this year, it didn't seem to do a whole lot in terms of bringing through pro players and I think it has now been dropped or at least the approach has been changed in some way.

Wasn't aware of that, bit of a shame it was dropped, unless they struggles to get many decent standard players because of the Union influence? To me an Academy & League 1/Championship teams would be the best model going forward for Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
 

Evil Homer

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Wasn't aware of that, bit of a shame it was dropped, unless they struggles to get many decent standard players because of the Union influence? To me an Academy & League 1/Championship teams would be the best model going forward for Ireland, Scotland and Wales.
What 'Union influence'? RU is the national sport in Wales while RL is a tiny minority sport. The team was dropped along with several other regional academy teams such as the Sheffield Eagles team and the Midlands team because they were way out of their depth, they were getting flogged every week and it was just a pointless exercise. I think the plan was for them to regroup and be put into a more suitable structure and level of competition, I'm not sure what the WRL are doing now but I know they have played a couple of international U16s matches over the past month.
 

Evil Homer

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http://www.rugby-league.com/leagues__competitions/academies/fixtures_results_and_tables

Bottom teams haven't won a game,and I'm guessing Wales would be worse than Cumbria.
There have been all types of problems with the Cumbria team, most of the good juniors there haven't played for the regional academy team this year due to some sort of clash with the local pro teams and you can see they have barely fulfilled any fixtures because of that. I imagine they will either be reformed or dropped for next year. Ironically I think the Cumbria team is the only one of the regional academies that actually produced any Super League players. But yeah, Wales would be about the same standard as them and the North East. I think it was an unjustifiable expense for the WRL and probably demoralising for the players for them to be involved.
 

jim_57

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What 'Union influence'? RU is the national sport in Wales while RL is a tiny minority sport. The team was dropped along with several other regional academy teams such as the Sheffield Eagles team and the Midlands team because they were way out of their depth, they were getting flogged every week and it was just a pointless exercise. I think the plan was for them to regroup and be put into a more suitable structure and level of competition, I'm not sure what the WRL are doing now but I know they have played a couple of international U16s matches over the past month.

The Union influence is exactly what you said, the fact it is much bigger in Wales, nothing sinister. It would be a tough slog fielding a team of youngsters in Wales when most of the talent pool at that age would be signed to playing Junior rugby union in their junior pathways. That and a handful of the best youngsters who do choose RL would be signed to SL Academies.

Maybe having a mini junior rep comp some sort every year, maybe South, West, North & "Exiles" (Welsh players playing in other countries). Followed by a good handful of Junior internationals. When the strength is there look to establishing a nation wide academy.
 

Teddyboy

First Grade
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6,573
Where did you hear about this spud? If so RLI might as well put a bid in as well. At least they have a much better domestic scene.. Predicting where a Scottish team may come from maybe the Borders or Glasgow..
I really think the Borders Rugby Union should just jump ship or have some teams playing in the summer be it amateur etc as they are in limbo as they don't want to be represented by one merged team of the area but the likes of Melrose, Hawick etc could have something to aim for ?...same as the clubs in the Welsh Premiership.
 

bowes

Juniors
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1,320
Wales had a team in the system competing against SL academies up until this year, it didn't seem to do a whole lot in terms of bringing through pro players and I think it has now been dropped or at least the approach has been changed in some way.
The midlands, North East, South West and South Wales are now represented in the premier division of the national colleges league which is the level down from the Academy league.
 

kiwileaguefan

Juniors
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2,426
Im led to believe that off the back of the up coming 4 nations,scotland RL are going to look at getting somekind of scottish team into league one...whether its going to be branded as scotland "whatever" or edinburgh or aberdeen "whatever" has yet to be decided

Has anything further been announced about this? I see they now have a full time development officer in Scotland now?
 
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Scotland coach Steve McCormack is hoping his team's historic draw with world No.1 New Zealand will go some way towards achieving a breakthrough for rugby league north of the border.

The 13-man code remains a minority sport in Scotland despite the Bravehearts reaching the last eight of the World Cup in 2013 and winning the 2015 European Cup, which earned them entry into the Four Nations Series for the first time.

Scotland overcame a dreadful start in their opening match against Australia in Hull to emerge from a 54-12 defeat with credit and they gave England a scare in Coventry before losing 38-12.

Friday night's 18-18 draw with the tournament holders provided further evidence of the talent available to McCormack, even though most of it qualifies through the grandparental rule with only two members of the 24-man squad born in the country.

McCormack admits progress has stalled but believes Friday's performance, which enabled Scotland to succeed where France, Wales, Papua New Guinea and Samoa previously failed by becoming the first "fourth nation" to claim a point, can help to create a legacy.

"It should do," McCormack said. "We would have liked to have thought in 2013 when we got to the World Cup quarter-final it would have left a bit more of a legacy.

"We've got a lot of people working hard on the ground floor up there now. We'd like to get our domestic game sorted.

"We've got a chairman and a board that is working really hard and hopefully the country can see that this is a team to be proud of."

Friday's match was held in Scotland's second home of Workington while the opener against the Kangaroos was taken to Hull after organisers were thwarted in their efforts to stage it in Glasgow.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...for-game-north-of-border-20161112-gso0my.html
 

adamkungl

Immortal
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42,955
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...ue_board_aims_to_maximise_Four_Nations_gains/

The chairman of Scotland Rugby League has initiated a review of how the sport is being run in a bid to ensure that it is best placed to capitalise on the way its profile has been raised by the national team with every aspect under scrutiny including his own position.

Looking at the way forward for what has been very much the minority version of rugby in Scotland, Keith Hogg explained that a thorough examination of management strategy and procedures was underway even before their Four Nations campaign which ended with them making history last weekend by claiming a draw with New Zealand which threatened the world’s number one side with elimination from the competition until England lost to Australia two days later.

“While all this has been going non we’ve actually engaged an expert in sports management who is actually currently undertaking a full board review, sitting down with each member of the board, talking about their role, how they see that as performing, how the board is performing and also how the chair is performing,” he explained.

“I don’t want to pre-judge that because I think that’s exactly what we should be doing, but I suspect that two things will probably come out of that. One is that we will decide we need more resource and secondly there’ll be some adjustment in responsibilities as to who does what.

“I think that’s an overall responsibility of the board and in particular my role as chair of that board.”

In terms of the way forward Hogg wants to see a six to eight team national league properly established.

“It’s not about suddenly thinking we’re going to have 12 to 15 rugby league teams across Scotland in two years’ time. That wouldn’t be right,” he said.

“We wouldn’t manage that particularly well in terms of giving them the right level of support.”

His thinking is based on achieving things that are manageable within the sport’s resources and he believes a template for grassroots development can be created in the north east around the strongest domestic club Aberdeen Warriors who earned a place in next year’s Challenge Cup last week with their victory over Strathmore Silverbacks in the Scottish Grand Final.

Explaining that both Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire Councils are supportive he expresses confidence that meaningful work will be done with schools competing with one another rather than the sport simply running taster sessions and claiming large participation figures on the back of that.

“I would expect that within two to three years we’ll have somewhere between 24 and 32 schools actively playing rugby league. Not counting them as playing rugby league because they have had an afternoon touching a rugby league ball, we mean playing rugby league against other schools in festivals and in a competitive school situation. If get in that position we are beginning to put the building blocks and some cement in those blocks,” said Hogg.

Naturally the successes achieved by the national team means there is an eagerness to move things forward more rapidly with the creation of a professional team in Scotland and Hogg would love to see that happen but, aware that the sport has what he describes as ‘a chequered history in terms of how it’s been run’ he urges caution.

“There are quite a few people who believe it is achievable. The debate is when,” he observed.


“It doesn’t feature within our strategic plan because I think that would be unrealistic and we’d be unbalanced because the balance has to be absolutely we improve and support our senior team and other representative teams. But our absolutely priority is the sustainable development of the sport in Scotland and if we started getting distracted with where could a pro team play and wondering how can we get investors, somewhat similar to another sport, this wouldn’t be the right time. Is there is a point in time when it could happen? Absolutely.

“I think it’s seven to 10 years away, being realistic, so it should be part of the very long-term thought process and it is, but it’s wrong to put it in a strategic plan because we’ll get distracted. We fundamentally want people experiencing the great game of rugby league at all ages. So we’re as much interested in having 60 14-year-olds having a great day playing rugby league in Aberdeen or Glasgow as anything else.”

In a week that has seen Glasgow Warriors sign the latest rugby league convert the potential benefits for Scottish sport are obvious and, at least in terms of awareness, Hogg and his current board have all the incentive they need.

Interesting parts bolded. Good to see recognition of the problems and actual planning and work being done to repair and grow.

Basic gist is:
Aim for a 6-8 team national league in short term.
Aim for 24-32 schools playing competitive RL in short term.
medium-long term (10 year) goal of entering a professional league into the SL setup.
 

paulmac

Juniors
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776
Travel from Aberdeen is a bit hard for the amateur sides.If I were running the SRL Id concentrate on getting a 4 team Northern conference going,surely 4 teams could be found in the Edinburgh- Glasgow corridor to form a southern conference.This is the exact reason Scotland should have hosted at least one game in the 4 nations.
 

deal.with.it

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2,086
The players speak very highly of Hogg, and from that article you can see why.

He makes a lot of sense and has forsight too.
 

titoelcolombiano

First Grade
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5,357
Friday's match was held in Scotland's second home of Workington while the opener against the Kangaroos was taken to Hull after organisers were thwarted in their efforts to stage it in Glasgow.

I wasn't aware of this. Does anyone know how it was thwarted?
 

jim_57

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Staff member
Messages
4,365
Friday's match was held in Scotland's second home of Workington while the opener against the Kangaroos was taken to Hull after organisers were thwarted in their efforts to stage it in Glasgow.

I wasn't aware of this. Does anyone know how it was thwarted?
From memory..

Stadium they were looking at/negotiating with had a synthetic pitch which is against RLIF rules.
 

DlEHARD

Juniors
Messages
823
Some what annoying when people are working so hard to build the game in areas like Canada, Hong Kong, Philippines, Pacific Islands, Europe... but we can't get the game going so close to the heartland? Come on. Maybe the British just think that Wales and Scotland are too far away to put their shoulder to the wheel.
 

flamin

Juniors
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2,046
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport..._start_professional_rugby_league_in_Scotland/

A businessman has pledged to fund a Scottish based rugby league franchise to the tune of £25,000 a year if a consortium can be formed to run a new team in a business like fashion.

The potential investor, a Scot who wants to remain anonymous at this stage, told HeraldSport that he has a long-standing love of the sport and has been inspired by the national team’s performance.

However in the wake of Scottish interest in the sport’s oldest tournament, the Challenge Cup, ending with a heavy defeat for national champions Aberdeen Warriors at the hands of Pilkington Recs in the opening round, he recognises that if the 13 man game is to flourish it needs to put down stronger roots.

“The Four Nations draw with New Zealand was probably the best result ever in rugby league,” he enthused.

“It would be the equivalent of the 10th ranked team in the world getting a result against the All Blacks. The Kiwis bitched and moaned about the venue afterwards, but with a bit more coherence it shows what Scotland in rugby league can be. It was incredible to see them playing to that level and they can still take it to another level.”

While Scotland Rugby League, the game’s governing body, is focused on this year’s World Cup in Australia and a bid to build on that Four Nations performance as well as the surprise run to the 2013 World Cup quarter-finals, there are serious concerns about the future.

Only last week the BBC announced that it would provide the best ever platform for the international game to promote itself by promising live coverage of every match when the World Cup returns to the UK in 2021. However, while that astonishing result against the world number one New Zealanders elevated the national team to fourth place in the world rankings, some commentators have claimed there is a serious threat to Scottish participation in that tournament.

The assertion is that Scotland does not currently fulfil the criteria that would entitle it to field a team in international competition because of the failure to establish a properly competitive domestic set-up, as exemplified by Aberdeen having earned Saturday’s Challenge Cup place on the back of a string of wins over last season’s only meaningful Scottish rivals, the Forfar-based Strathmore Silverbacks.

Putting a more meaningful competition in place would be accelerated by having a professional set-up for players to aspire to, however, which makes this offer a potential game changer.

“I would be prepared to put in 25 grand a year, but it’s about putting roots down. You need the right business plan and the right people,” said the would-be investor.

“I’m ready to contribute to that but I don’t want to lead it and there should be a more senior investor than me.”

In terms of where the team should be located he suggested that geography and a tradition of having sent players to rugby league would make the Borders a strong contender, but acknowledged that solid groundwork has been done in Aberdeen which suggests it might have the right combination of a big population and the capacity to further develop a support structure within its schools and community.


“The Borders is not too far from Cumbria which makes travel easier, but Aberdeen’s got an airport and oil money. It may have taken a dip but there’s nothing to rule that out of coming back again. They’ve now got some history up there,” he noted.

Future developments also offer the tantalising prospect of liaison with Aberdeen FC, who recently submitted a planning application for their proposed new home at Kingsford. That, in turn, invites comparison with the ambitious project being launched this season as Toronto Wolfpack join the lowest division of England’s professional rugby league set-up. Heavily supported they have recruited former Great Britain and Wigan Warriors head coach Brian Noble as their director of rugby, along with a formidable playing squad and are paying for all their opponents’ trips to Canada as they seek to race to the Premiership in minimum time.

However the Scottish investor urges a steadier, more organic development, suggesting a more relevant parallel with a club that neighbours, but is based outside rugby league’s M62 corridor heartland, would be with Coventry Bears. They were originally formed by a group of students in the nineties but have gradually worked their way through the amateur National Conference Leagues and will now be among those hosting Toronto in National League One at their 4000 capacity Butts Arena, having been admitted to the professional competition two years ago.

“Ideally you would work towards having a ground that had a 500 seat stand in the first instance with the ability to have another 500 standing,” he said.

“The key is finding the right place to launch yourself. The RFL would give you seventy grand which helps to attract decent talent and you make up the rest with sponsorship etc.

“You are aiming for turnover of £250,000 and what you would look for is a manager, a coach and an office manager to set things up.”
 

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