Is Foran overpriced?

[Eelementary]

Besides - Matterson is here next year, and Foran...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Your statement did appear to say he could do the same job as Foran to the same standard. Though I knew what you meant - nobody would say Matterson is as good as Foran. I assumed your phrasing was off.

 

[Parra47]

It'll be interesting to see how Matterson develops over the next two years and where he ends up, 6 or 13. I have hight hopes for him, but lean towards him as a 13.

 

[The Colonel]

Go ahead and actually read what I wrote.

Go on - I'll wait for you.

...

All good? Sweet.

Now - point out where I said he will be as good as Foran.

I said (and I'm getting tired of repeating this for the Leaping Leopolds who are quick to jump to erroneous conclusions about what I'm ssuing) he could do the same job [ie: run, tackle, pass] at a fraction of the cost.

I never said he'd be as good - I said he could do the job for a fraction of the cost...

Can do the job? When he has yet to do the job? He has potential and potentially he should have put us in the grand final in NYC....

We might not sign Foran but if we don't we had better be still looking for a playmaker that can help us in 2016 because Matterson is still a long way off doing the job on a regular basis.

 

[The Colonel]

From footage I have seen and what I have managed to pick up from various sources the best halves option in our juniors is a sixteen or seventeen year old called Troy Dargan. I hope that we don't have to wait for him to mature....

 

[Eelementary]

Your statement did appear to say he could do the same job as Foran to the same standard. Though I knew what you meant - nobody would say Matterson is as good as Foran. I assumed your phrasing was off.

I didn't go into specifics, because I didn't find it necessary.

Neither Foran nor Matterson are consistently great kickers (though Foran is easily above Matto).

But both are tough, good defenders and have a nice passing game.

Foran is a brilliant player - but my point is that he will come at a huge cost (if at all).

 

[Eelementary]

Can do the job? When he has yet to do the job? He has potential and potentially he should have put us in the grand final in NYC....

We might not sign Foran but if we don't we had better be still looking for a playmaker that can help us in 2016 because Matterson is still a long way off doing the job on a regular basis.

Foran is a great player, no doubt.

But if we miss out, we have Sandow and Norman still in the side.

While Foran is more consistent (and consistently better), I honestly believe their skill sets are similar - the main differences are Foran's experience leads to superior execution on a regular basis.

Just saying if/when (if one believes the media) Foran doesn't come, we have a potentially similar style of player at a fraction of the cost with a much higher ceiling IMO.

 

[Eelementary]

Your statement did appear to say he could do the same job as Foran to the same standard. Though I knew what you meant - nobody would say Matterson is as good as Foran. I assumed your phrasing was off.

Also, just touching on that statement of mine again - I said Matto could do what Foran does but cheaper.

There was no qualitative assertion, so any assumptions made were done so without a prod from my post.

 

[Eelementary]

I've said all along that Foran is quality. But it is looking likely that he won't be an Eel, and I was expressing my opinion that we can get by without him. Would we be better with him? Of course - but to paraphrase Pou, fifteen other teams don't have Foran, and they go ok.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

From footage I have seen and what I have managed to pick up from various sources the best halves option in our juniors is a sixteen or seventeen year old called Troy Dargan. I hope that we don't have to wait for him to mature....

Dargan is 18 this year but didn't make the NYC squad. He might appear after SG Ball is over but still.

Zach Dockar-Clay and Jackson Hastings, for example, played NYC the year they turned 17.

Of course that just means those two were more physical (faster, stronger) than Dargan at the same age. The best comparison would be another 'slow' half like Hodkinson, who played Flegg (under 20s) in the year he turned 18 but started that year (2006) in SG Ball.

Then you have kids like Luke Brooks who didn't play NYC until the year he turned 19 (though his birthday is in late December) but made his NRL debut the same year. So a junior's NYC start date isn't a 100% reliable indicator - ZDC is a year younger than Brooks (actually five months) but made his NYC debut a year earlier (though in a shit squad whereas the Tigers NYC team Brooks debuted for were very strong). However despite making his NYC debut earlier, ZDC won't play first grade this year unless there are plenty of injuries. Meanwhile if Brooks stays injury free he could potentially play his 50th first grade game this year.

 

[The Colonel]

Dargan is 18 this year but didn't make the NYC squad. He might appear after SG Ball is over but still.

Zach Dockar-Clay and Jackson Hastings, for example, played NYC the year they turned 17.

Of course that just means those two were more physical (faster, stronger) than Dargan at the same age. The best comparison would be another 'slow' half like Hodkinson, who played Flegg (under 20s) in the year he turned 18 but started that year (2006) in SG Ball.

Then you have kids like Luke Brooks who didn't play NYC until the year he turned 19 (though his birthday is in late December) but made his NRL debut the same year. So a junior's NYC start date isn't a 100% reliable indicator - ZDC is a year younger than Brooks (actually five months) but made his NYC debut a year earlier (though in a shit squad whereas the Tigers NYC team Brooks debuted for were very strong). However despite making his NYC debut earlier, ZDC won't play first grade this year unless there are plenty of injuries. Meanwhile if Brooks stays injury free he could potentially play his 50th first grade game this year.

Yes.

Our best halves options aren't really that impressive hence the need to recruit the best available whatever the cost.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think Norman is good enough to be part of a premiership winning side, and if his defence can continue to improve (unlikely) then so is Sandow. They just need to be surrounded with quality team mates.

To be honest, I think Cherry-Evans + Norman would be a better combination than Foran + either of our halves.

 

[The Colonel]

I think Norman is good enough to be part of a premiership winning side, and if his defence can continue to improve (unlikely) then so is Sandow. They just need to be surrounded with quality team mates.

To be honest, I think Cherry-Evans + Norman would be a better combination than Foran + either of our halves.

I think a combination of Foran and Sandow with Norman at fullback would be ideal. I don't think DCE is all that.... He is a good half but doesn't dominate quite when he should.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

He doesn't need to dominate, he just needs to play well on his side of the field. And while he is a lesser playmaker than Foran, his kicking game is significantly better, and kicking is the main thing we would have to find if we lost Sandow.

Which brings me to why Foran + Sandow isn't the best solution - Sandow's defence. Even with Foran's excellent defence on the left hand side of the field, Sandow's side will still be a huge weakness.

Norman + Cherry-Evans kicks almost as well as Foran + Sandow and in defence is much stronger, simply because Sandow isn't part of it. Don't be fooled by the superior running game of Foran + Sandow. Norman + DCE would still run the ball very well.

 

[T.S Quint]

You think Manly's pack was weak over the last several years? You think ours is necessarily stronger? Are you out of your mind? (That's three questions.)

Uh, yes.
Several years? Nah, just last year. Manly's forwards played alright for the most part, but were not really standouts.
Hell, they got beaten by us late in the year because our forwards completely dominated theirs. Our pack is improving (though we lose a bit with Kenny out injured).

And, yes I am also completely out of my mind.

 

[Parra47]

I agree Manly's pack was not as strong last year and I think our pack will be the stronger one this year, but they still managed to finish in 2nd place where as we finished 10th. Their halves still steer them around the park better than ours.

 

[Western_Eel]

how much is any player worth? .......what ever someone is willing to pay for them

 

[woodyk2]

Has Foran actually signed?

 

[caylo]

What has to be considered is are we paying for talent, value or a game breakers.

Now if you pay players on talent then foran, Thurston and half the halves in the comp are over valued. I think that is shouldn't be a linear scale and your top 2-3 payed players should be clutch players that win you games when it counts. These players are worth more for that reason.

If you play 12 games with a winning margin less the 6 in a season a player like foran might win you 8-10 compared to sandow who might win you 6 at beat which is the difference between 10th, 8th and 6th.
we have lost hayne, he was our clutch player and at his best he is not as good a clutch player as foran. While hayne is a better player all round compared to foran he could go missing in big moments or take the wrong option.

Over the last decade lockyer and Thurston have been the best clutch players, they are truly the difference between NSW and qld and why they won 8 in a row, qld were rarely that much better. A perfect example is smith v farah, farah is probably the most skilled hooker in the game but Smith stands up when the chips are down and wins games so i guess he is worth more.

For those reasons i think Foran is worth it, I think Norman-Foran could work but is a risk. Peats-Norman-Foran-Hoppa would bd close to the best spine in the NRL, thats wins football games (well big games anyway)

 

[emjaycee]

What has to be considered is are we paying for talent, value or a game breakers.

Now if you pay players on talent then foran, Thurston and half the halves in the comp are over valued. I think that is shouldn't be a linear scale and your top 2-3 payed players should be clutch players that win you games when it counts. These players are worth more for that reason.

If you play 12 games with a winning margin less the 6 in a season a player like foran might win you 8-10 compared to sandow who might win you 6 at beat which is the difference between 10th, 8th and 6th.
we have lost hayne, he was our clutch player and at his best he is not as good a clutch player as foran. While hayne is a better player all round compared to foran he could go missing in big moments or take the wrong option.

Over the last decade lockyer and Thurston have been the best clutch players, they are truly the difference between NSW and qld and why they won 8 in a row, qld were rarely that much better. A perfect example is smith v farah, farah is probably the most skilled hooker in the game but Smith stands up when the chips are down and wins games so i guess he is worth more.

For those reasons i think Foran is worth it, I think Norman-Foran could work but is a risk. Peats-Norman-Foran-Hoppa would bd close to the best spine in the NRL, thats wins football games (well big games anyway)

What about a spine of Peats, Sandow, Foran and Norman with Hoppa back into the Centres? Where would you rate that?