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Legacy of the 'big 3'

Jerkwad2000

Juniors
Messages
114
They're still and remained at all times NRL registrable players who weren't found to bring the NRL into disrepute.

Your suggested solutions may seem fair and just to you, but they are repugnant to legal rights.

Here's the thing. These players had legal contracts. With the club. NOT the NRL.

As soon as the Melbourne Storm lodged falsified/incorrect documents to the governing body, which is the NRL, and once they were found to be falsified/incorrect, the NRL lodged contracts became null and void. For all the players that had more than 1 contract. This is exactly how things would work in the "real" world. The aggrieved party would then have the right to sue the infringing party (in this case, the Melbourne Storm), for damages caused/loss of income.

So yes, the players had legal rights. But the NRL would have had every right to make every illegitimate contract null and void.

Not a single person here is saying that players had to be traded against their will. If none of the Melbourne players were prepared to leave the club, then the club would have been legally obligated to meet the conditions of their contracts, regardless of the salary cap implications thereafter. Contracted players leave clubs all the time, often with the club they are leaving picking up a portion of their salary for the remainder of their contracts. Why? Because they are legally entitled for that contract to be enforced.

The NRL pushed the boat way out as it was by demanding one of the 4 leave. The Storm acceded gratiously with GI moving on. This doesn't make the demand legitimate.

I would love to hear your rationale for this. From memory, I don't think the NRL demanded any particular player/s leave. The only way for Melbourne to become cap complaint was for one of the "big 4" to leave. Melbourne chose GI because he was the most expendable. He was the one who was closest to his contract ending, therefore reducing any long term burden on the club in the fact that they may have to pick up a portion of his wage. As for the demand being legitimate - of course it was. There are a set of clearly defined rules for teams to meet to be in the NRL. One of these is to be salary cap compliant. The demand was to become cap complaint, and that restructuring of contracts would not be allowed. The NRL did nothing but demand the club follow one of the basic rules of eligibility. It's completely legitimate.
 

sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,930
And?

These are people getting 3rd party deals and gifts amended to their contracts on salaries getting nigh to 1m dollars.

This was business as usual. Get me a 3rd party deal home reno, a new car for my wife, a Maui holiday and some tickets to the Ashes too please. Ill sign a new contract and do the promo work each time too unless I have reason to suspect something foul.

Its not their job to keep and audit the books, and get NRL clearance for the 3rd party deals over and above the cap. Thats the CEO's responsibility.
Ok, Cameron.

Congratulations on your news ltd award btw.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Cronk has already got his way into Media, but something tells me it will be more difficult for Smith and Slater to get big time and big exposure league media gigs than it was for Gaz, Hindy, and Finch. JT was signed up post playing career for mega by 9 years ago.

Has anyone signed Smith or Slater?
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Here's the thing. These players had legal contracts. With the club. NOT the NRL.
Agreed. Read back. We're on the same page here.

As soon as the Melbourne Storm lodged falsified/incorrect documents to the governing body, which is the NRL, and once they were found to be falsified/incorrect, the NRL lodged contracts became null and void.
No, they're still binding between club and player if the NRL is not party to the contract as you state above. Show me the money!

For all the players that had more than 1 contract. This is exactly how things would work in the "real" world. The aggrieved party would then have the right to sue the infringing party (in this case, the Melbourne Storm), for damages caused/loss of income.
No, the players have an election to cancel the contract for the Storm's breach and seek damages, or forgive the breach and just keep accepting the payments due under it. Only problem is - they have to be registered players to play in the NRL. But they can sit back and bank the cheques if the Storm cannot reach an agreement with the players that gets the Storm under the cap. If the Storm stops sending those cheques, well then actions for damages under the contract happen.

So yes, the players had legal rights. But the NRL would have had every right to make every illegitimate contract null and void.
No. The NRL is not a court and not party to the contract as you state above. Are you using null and void to sound fancy, or do you know the differences between void and voidable and breaches resulting in legitimate cancellation as against repudiation? Null and void seems way off to me. The player can enforce the contract against the club.


Not a single person here is saying that players had to be traded against their will. If none of the Melbourne players were prepared to leave the club, then the club would have been legally obligated to meet the conditions of their contracts, regardless of the salary cap implications thereafter.

Contracted players leave clubs all the time, often with the club they are leaving picking up a portion of their salary for the remainder of their contracts. Why? Because they are legally entitled for that contract to be enforced.
Exactly why the contracts are not null and void.

In the real world - the contract between the club and the player cannot be terminated by the NRL who is not a party to the contract. It is binding between the club and the player. The NRL can possibly deregister the registered contracted player if its terms and agreement with the Club so permit for submitting false information. Lets assume this is so. Even then, this decision to deregister the player is possibly judicially reviewable by the player themselves. Lets say the player(s) loses or doesn't bring his case, the club is likely to be in breach with the player's contract by supplying inaccurate information to the NRL resulting in deregistration and being unable to play. So then it is up to the players and the club to decide what to do for the club to get under the cap by supplying accurate information. Take a pay cut,walk, same money and someone else pay cut or walk? Walk and hold the club to the overs lost on new contract? Free trade rules here.

But this is boring legal mumbo jumbo, so I suggest that you read back further because this is totally wrong:
"Not a single person here is saying that players had to be traded against their will."

Yes, they are. They are suggesting all should have been made to leave the storm and each join different clubs, through to the storm should lose their entire roster and start over.

I would love to hear your rationale for this. From memory, I don't think the NRL demanded any particular player/s leave. The only way for Melbourne to become cap complaint was for one of the "big 4" to leave. Melbourne chose GI because he was the most expendable. He was the one who was closest to his contract ending, therefore reducing any long term burden on the club in the fact that they may have to pick up a portion of his wage. As for the demand being legitimate - of course it was. There are a set of clearly defined rules for teams to meet to be in the NRL. One of these is to be salary cap compliant. The demand was to become cap complaint, and that restructuring of contracts would not be allowed. The NRL did nothing but demand the club follow one of the basic rules of eligibility. It's completely legitimate.

The demand to be cap compliant is different to a possible demand that one of the big 4 leave. I have no issue with the former. Where did I get one of the big 4 must go from? It is how I recalled it being reported when it broke in 2010 and discussed later. It quite likely may have been misreported as journalists often struggle when reporting legal issues. They're not lawyers. But I remember it being reported as the NRL had directed that one of the big 4 must leave which I find illegitimate. Of course directing to get under the cap anyway they see fit or can is legitimate. If practical to shed one of the Big 4 to get cap compliant, I agree that that's fine, if ordered by the NRL, that's not fine, though.
 
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Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
I'll stop arguing law when people stop suggesting unlawful penalties that the NRL "should" have imposed.

This is why I reported u to the mods for being a boring merkin. The suggestions were never going to fly and did not happen. But the opinions are valid.

The Storm have done very well out of this. Inarguable.

Thanks for boring this thread to tears...
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
This is why I reported u to the mods for being a boring merkin. The suggestions were never going to fly and did not happen. But the opinions are valid.

The Storm have done very well out of this. Inarguable.

Thanks for boring this thread to tears...

Ahh, well thanks for the "valid" non-boring opinions of ideas unlawful and never going to fly. Like a lil fantasy of a parrallel NRL life in North Korea.

Inarguably, the Storm have done very well with their talent identification and recruitment for the last 16 years or so and their ability to keep 3 great players under the cap legitimately for the past 7 seasons.
 
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Pedge1971

First Grade
Messages
5,898
Ahh, well thanks for the "valid" non-boring opinions of ideas unlawful and never going to fly. Like a lil fantasy of a parrallel NRL life in North Korea.

Inarguably, the Storm have done very well with their talent identification and recruitment for the last 15 years and their ability to keep 3 great players under the cap legitimately for the past 7 seasons.

Yep. But still tainted and no doubt pushing boundaries.

Just like your mate McCaw right?
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,371
Ok, Cameron.

Congratulations on your news ltd award btw.
I think you mean Cameron "No she doesn't, No she doesn't, No she doesn't, No she doesn't," Smith.

That will be his legacy after last night. Not sure about anyone else but I cracked up watching him trying to publicly crawl to his missus after putting his foot in it, while digging himself deeper in the hole. Hilarious.
 

Weaponhead

Coach
Messages
10,220
The coach wasn't balancing the books, doing the negotiations , arranging the third party deals or buying the boat.

Nothing wrong with a player getting a third party deal, or a gift for that matter, but the club went well over the limits of the cap
Naive. The Sergeant Schultz defence for the biggest control freak in the game.

Flanagan didn't inject anyone yet got 12 months suspension. It's called accountability.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Naive. The Sergeant Schultz defence for the biggest control freak in the game.

Flanagan didn't inject anyone yet got 12 months suspension. It's called accountability.

Naive. The Sergeant Schultz defence for the biggest control freak in the game.

Flanagan didn't inject anyone yet got 12 months suspension. It's called accountability.

And unlike Flannagan, on the facts of the Storm cheating, Bellyache was not found nor held to be accountable.
 

Incorrect

Coach
Messages
11,828
I think you mean Cameron "No she doesn't, No she doesn't, No she doesn't, No she doesn't," Smith.

That will be his legacy after last night. Not sure about anyone else but I cracked up watching him trying to publicly crawl to his missus after putting his foot in it, while digging himself deeper in the hole. Hilarious.
I didn't catch any of the coverage... what happened? How did he put his foot in it??
 

_Johnsy

Referee
Messages
27,371
I didn't catch any of the coverage... what happened? How did he put his foot in it??
I can't find the footage. he was talking about how his wife is a great support looking after the kids etc, Then he said she cracks the whip at home, then the room erupts into laughter. The he says "No she doesn't" about 5 times. The camera pans to Mrs Smith, head in her hands & obviously extremely embarrassed & not happy at all. he then tries to get out of the obvious hole & just can't.

It was hilarious, it was obvious (IMO) that she is a hard task master indeed, I reckon Ol' Cam's a bit whipped. Keep an eye out for the whole interview, it's gold.
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
If they somehow lose next week; cronk, Slater, and cam Smith will have won one premiership. If that's the end of Slater and cronk's nrl careers, they will surely be remembered as failing to achieve much in club footy over long careers. Also winning percentages of games they played should be adjusted taking into account how their team cheated the cap and would have lost all the games in those seasons. The club has only won as many premierships in the last 12 years as souths, Cronulla, Broncos, etc. Much more should be made of the two sets of books when assessing their club careers.

I don't often say this, but this is the biggest load of crap I have come across in a very long time.

If you don't like the Storm or Slater, Smith and Cronk, then just say so. People may appreciate your message more if you did.
 

Saxon

Bench
Messages
2,690
Cronk has already got his way into Media, but something tells me it will be more difficult for Smith and Slater to get big time and big exposure league media gigs than it was for Gaz, Hindy, and Finch. JT was signed up post playing career for mega by 9 years ago.

Has anyone signed Smith or Slater?
Smith contracted to Fux and Slater is with nein. That's why you always get Billy on the Footy Show and not Cam
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Smith contracted to Fux and Slater is with nein. That's why you always get Billy on the Footy Show and not Cam
Okay - I don't watch the Footy Show much - it's like a crappy gameshow to me - but I watch a lot of the Fox products; and I don't see Smith. Maybe he's not allowed out on weeknights.
 

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