New Counties?

[JVinAZ]

I know I'm asking for grief, but here goes...

all these new countries are popping up everywhere
great to see

Popping up everywhere? NO!!! They are only popping up in SYDNEY! With all due respect to WI, Singapore, Greece and others, and their plans for the futures, but IMHO a nation does not exist in a international sport until the organisers of the sport in that nation are based in the nation, there is a domestic competition, and there are players living and playing in that nation are capable of representing the nation. Until then, these organisations have as much relevance as the governments and armies in exile in the UK during WWII, they look good, they add to the numbers, but in the end, they don't mean much.

The fact is that with the exception of England and NZ, given the ethnic and national diversity of Australia, you could probably field quality teams, and in many cases better sides, for all of the last RLWC nations exclusively using Aus based players who qualify based on parent and GP rules.

The time is LONG PAST for the RL establishment and supporters to support the efforts of the newer RL nations, which have a domesitic organisation and competition, like Holland, rather than inventing "national teams" for nations where RL does not exist. Frankly, I was dissapointed when the Dutch RL was criticized for not trying hard enough in this forum, while the tried and true "It's all Union's fault" excuse was cited for the recent setbacks in the Netherlands.

 

[JVinAZ]

Sorry, I missed the "R" in the Topic Name. Unfortunately, this can not be editied,

 

[yakstorm]

It is always easy to criticise when one doesn't know all that is happening and makes an assumption based upon limited knowledge.

First off lets go through these new 'start up' nations in relevance to the questions you have put forward.

Italy - Based and started in Sydney. Have held a number of events in Italy each year involving Italians. Have around 100 - 150 Italians now playing in different French competitons whilst a North Italy RL competition is made.

Singapore - Well most of their national squad is coming from Singapore. There aren't that many singapore RL or RU players outside of the region.

West Indies - Well there are people over in Bermuda who are trying to take the game over there, plus a number of people from the West Indies who will participate in one of the rep squads over the next 12 months.

Now I'm not denying that RL bodies should be pouring more money into the likes of Holland and Serbia, but on the other hand they aren't just handing over much to these 'remotely' placed bodies. Wow singapore and west indies got a Souths Jersey, it is very much appreciated by the bodies, but its not going to run a competition or even pay for an international.

If you follow the expansion of many other sports including Rugby Union and AFL (it is growing as much as we may not want to admit it) alot of the growth did partially start from bodies based in their codes' heartlands, and then bodies based in the country itself. The two work together.

Look at Cook Islands, they have started to move forward and become a lot more proactive since they have Cook Islands RL, Cook Islands Australia and Cook Islands NZ. The three groups share resources and work together to help move the small island forward.

Back onto the nations you named, how about giving them time and instead of shooting down the efforts of some individuals who I know put well over 40 hrs weeks into these initatives, just leave them be. No one is forcing you to even acknowledge them, but I'm sure they don't want to be constantly dragged down.

Onto your last comment:
"Frankly, I was dissapointed when the Dutch RL was criticized for not trying hard enough in this forum, while the tried and true "It's all Union's fault" excuse was cited for the recent setbacks in the Netherlands."

You have a go at the people who have the shots at the NNRLB and then you have a go at the NNRLB for saying it was Unions fault...

 

[PARRA_FAN]

What exactly is your point Jvinaz??

Its one way of growing International Rugby League, Lebanon RL grew up in Sydney organised a group of players, coaches, and the Lebanese community and just recently have introduced the game over there in Lebanon. Since then theyve had a domestic competition and have played internationals in Beruit and Tripoli. Now that worked in Lebanon and it may work for other countries as well.

 

[dimitri]

load of crap

rl is spreading whether people like it or not

 

[JVinAZ]

Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2004 12:03 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yanto et al,

I understand your frustrations but you need to accept the fact that the big pot of 'development' cash you are all hankering for simply doesn't exist (not in the northern hemisphere anyway).

With that in mind, you have to do one of two things:

1) Accept defeat

or (hopefully)

2) Stop complaining about the lack of a fairy godmother and follow the lead of the likes of Lebanon and Scotland by working your arses off and pulling rabbits out of hats on a daily basis (as I'm sure you have been doing, Yanto).

Your point about Lebanon being in a different situation to the likes of Holland is also wide of the mark. There may well be a lebanese community in Oz, and this certainly boosts the strength of the Test side, but from what I gather all the ground that has been made in Lebanon has been achieved without any day-to-day involvement from Oz and without financial assistance and is purely the result of hard work and shrewd planning by the people in Beirut/Tripoli.

If you need inspiration and proof that you can achieve great things without a 'sugar daddy', you should look to them.

As for the likes of Singapore, Greek RL, Italia RL and Windies RL, at the end of the day its a non-issue as rugby league isn't actually played in any of those places. Thanks to Yanto and his colleagues, RL has now been played in Holland, and I hope they can get past their financial issues and help take the game onwards and upwards.

This, and posts like this, is the source of my critecism. Actually, Yanto has been been left to ask for evidence of RL being being recognized by any international sporting body. As of today there is none.

And BTW Yakstorm, is RL played TODAY in the WI? for many, the formation of the WIRL. in Sydney, automatically qualified th WRILF for the next RLWC. Do youy believe this is true?!?

 

[JVinAZ]

load of crap

rl is spreading whether people like it or not

I want RL to expand!!!

But the fact that fact that you can find 17 Australians of Maltese decent who play RL, does not mean that RL is played in Malta, or that these 17 players represent Malta. Likewise, it is relatively easy to find 17 players of WI decent in the UK and Australial, but do any of these actuall y playd in WI? I don't think so.

 

[JVinAZ]

What exactly is your point Jvinaz??

Its one way of growing International Rugby League, Lebanon RL grew up in Sydney organised a group of players, coaches, and the Lebanese community and just recently have introduced the game over there in Lebanon. Since then theyve had a domestic competition and have played internationals in Beruit and Tripoli. Now that worked in Lebanon and it may work for other countries as well.

Acctually. you prove my point, To date, no "new natiion" has come close tp equalling Lebanonon's succcess on RL. Is this the exception or the rule?

 

[PARRA_FAN]

What exactly is your point Jvinaz??

Its one way of growing International Rugby League, Lebanon RL grew up in Sydney organised a group of players, coaches, and the Lebanese community and just recently have introduced the game over there in Lebanon. Since then theyve had a domestic competition and have played internationals in Beruit and Tripoli. Now that worked in Lebanon and it may work for other countries as well.

Acctually. you prove my point, To date, no "new natiion" has come close tp equalling Lebanonon's succcess on RL. Is this the exception or the rule?

It's all about expansion

I reckon the next country will probably be Greece.

 

[Big Bunny]

What exactly is your point Jvinaz??

Its one way of growing International Rugby League, Lebanon RL grew up in Sydney organised a group of players, coaches, and the Lebanese community and just recently have introduced the game over there in Lebanon. Since then theyve had a domestic competition and have played internationals in Beruit and Tripoli. Now that worked in Lebanon and it may work for other countries as well.

Acctually. you prove my point, To date, no "new natiion" has come close tp equalling Lebanonon's succcess on RL. Is this the exception or the rule?

A simple question - do you think these people should give up on their efforts?

What it all boils down to is that you expect miracles and have an exceptionally low level of patience.

If you really must be so stubborn, let's examine each nation shall we?

Lebanon: It took them a number of years to get the ball rolling, but now they have a 4 team domestic league and a 2 tiered international program. Why then are you expecting the newer nations to develop the game faster than they have done?

Greece: Only announced their intentions last year. Yet you expect people to be on the ground in Greece already setting up a domestic league. You want that right now, yet you have no idea who the Greek RL are, what their backgrounds are and what the have achieved in RL away from their involvement in the GRL. Seriously, you are grasping at straws and you just sound like an impatient child.

Italy: Perhaps a little slow off the mark, however they have staged events in Padova, will be hosting internationals again this year and are likely to strengthen their domestic development. Just what problem do you have with that?

Malta: A few murmurs over the last few weeks. If you are expecting major developments already.. Well, let's just say your ignorance knows no bounds.

West Indies: For one, only a segment of its administrative body is based in Australia. The majority of its players and support stuff are UK based and thus throws out your Sydney tirade. There is a 5 year plan in place and so far it is right on the mark as far as goals are concerned. Domestic development work WILL happen, but jeez, the team hasn't even played their first international yet after holding their first meetings last year.

One year is not suffice in developing the game in this manner. Nor is two years. What needs to be done is that funds and awareness are created by a team of exiles, striving and putting in a mammoth number of hours, for no reward, all in the hope that within perhaps 5, 6, 7 or even 10 years the game can be taken to the home of their ancestors and done in such a way that development work continues once they leave it to the locals.

If you want to get that hand out of your arse and offer it to the people who are doing work in international RL, be it via this method or from the ground up per Serbia and Holland, people would be far more appreciative.

You don't know the facts, you are skimming the surface and are insulting a great number of people who are dedicated and are thankless in their pursuits. What possible reason can justify that? Oh - you are impatient! Well gee bloody whiz. Get off your arse and give people a hand rather than bitching about it.

 

[yakstorm]

In regards to what is happening to Yanto and Holland RL, other than that one post by one individual, I think most people are appreciative of what he has done.

Holland has not yet kicked off in terms of domestic comps, but thanks to him they at least now have internationals and have planned events as well which will hopefully lead to one.

If you need inspiration and proof that you can achieve great things without a 'sugar daddy', you should look to them.

Ahh its inspiration from people like

As for the likes of Singapore, Greek RL, Italia RL and Windies RL, at the end of the day its a non-issue as rugby league isn't actually played in any of those places.

Non-issue? I think we shall agree to disagree on that point.

Thanks to Yanto and his colleagues, RL has now been played in Holland, and I hope they can get past their financial issues and help take the game onwards and upwards.

No arguements there

This, and posts like this, is the source of my critecism. Actually, Yanto has been been left to ask for evidence of RL being being recognized by any international sporting body. As of today there is none.

Its a situation the code should of addressed earlier, I wont argue with that, and at least now the League is looking at trying to fix it.

And BTW Yakstorm, is RL played TODAY in the WI? for many, the formation of the WIRL. in Sydney, automatically qualified th WRILF for the next RLWC. Do youy believe this is true?!?

LOL no of course I don't believe that is true. I know West Indies, like many other nations will be hoping to qualify for the 2008 World Cup, and like all nations, I wish them the best of luck, lets hope by that time WI, Singapore and Greece have all kicked off their domestic comps.

 

[YANTO]

Well we getting stick again!!!! or is it praise??
Development in any nation takes time and effort,the differance between teams who can call on established players and admin is an advantage but not the be all and end all.
Setbacks will hit every one no matter where they are trying to establish the game.
Holland to be honest seem to have weathered their early set backs and are in fact stronger for it.
2003 we played two internationals,had a one international club game,played in the york nines and held a weekends coaching clinic.
2004 and we have ten schools playing TAG (Going to a new set up in about three hours)
Last night 18 players attended the first coaching session at Nijmegen Oblix.
Tonight over 20 players have registered to attend a meeting at Nijmegen Wasps.
It is hoped to combine these teams to form Nijmegen Nemisis RLC and things are looking promising.

Saturday we have ameeting with Mekka Boys who supplied the backbone of the national squad last year to discuss the way forward.

Tuesday we have 22 players starting training at Rotterdam RFC (A Dutch Premier Union side).

We are also meeting other clubs on a regular basis.

In August the Rotterdam Cup will be contested between Holand,Serbia and Scotland at under 19 and open age levels and an 18 team International nines tournament in being held on august 7th.

We had a very important meeting with the Dutch RU last Tuesday to discuss cross-code co-operation (we need their players and facilities to progress) and a statement will be made in due course but what came out of that meeting could prove unique and could have massive repercussions around the rugby world.

We now have a nine man (person sorry) board working their socks of to make this a success the only thing we lack is finance but we are addressing that.

Just thought I would up date people on how things are going over here.
Yep we aint doing to bad at the mo!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anonymous]

Great work Yanto. Very very admirable what you and others are doing for international rugby league. And then this idiot comes in here and mouths off. Good luck to you and all the other countrie's founders!

 

[Wests is Best]

I happen to know Greece aims to start their first domestic competetion in late 2005.

 

[bj78]

Well these things have got to start somewhere and if starting off in Aust. or England and using players from the professional competitions there with ancestrial backgrounds then so be it. Australian soccer has a pretty poor local comp but when they use there overseas players they have a great team so similar things in league could work.

 

[screeny]

Hey hey, lads,

Poor JVinAZ is only expressing an opinion and he's been roasted! He, like all of us, wants the best for RL and especially int'l RL. He's started a pretty interesting topic here, so why the insults?

And put down your sabres for one minute and take a look at his post: he's right....it's not accurate to say new RL countries are popping up everywhere.

However, you lot are also right. We shouldn't criticise anyone for their efforts. But the RLIF needs to work with these people to see if they're serious about taking the game to their countries. If not then why embarrass ourselves.

Italy has been going for ages, for at least five years, no, but they haven't really got anywhere.

Big Bunny, I presume that Lebanon's acceleration occurred post-WC when a dev. off. started work on the ground. WHy hasn't the Italian RL gone down the saem route? Not a criticism but a concern.

Malta and Greece, too early to ssay anything, but at least the desire is there. But taking it to Europe is the big step.

\As for the Windies, my views on this are pretty strong and have been expounded before. Good luck to them but I don't agree with (a) them calling themselves a fed and (b) their five-year plan which is pretty unworkable in my opinion.

But on the whole we all want what's best for RL and JVinAZ is only expressing a concern that the game's image is being tarnished by an acceptance that RL is now played in many more countries around the world....when in reality it isn't.

 

[YANTO]

Screeny know where you coming from mate.
I know how difficult it is to start from scratch in a new country without any League background and though I wish them all success, transfering the game from Sydney to the "Homelands" is a very different matter.
We keep hearing about countries like Marocco and South Africa for example but I know there is as yet no domestic competition played in either of these countries.
Before Holland can become a member of the European Federation one of the criteria is a minimum four team domestic competition and yet we are reading Malta have been recognised/rattified by the IRLF
As for the Lebanon Im not sure if Danny is a Dev.Off os just a a guy like a lot more of us who wants to see the game expand, but give him loads of credit he has done a terrific job in the lebanese.
Russia are proberbly the most succesful of the new nations but still their playing standards are far below even BARLA clubs.
Italy have been going for quite a few years but if you ask the Scots who played in Padova last year very few players are"Italians" that actually playing for the national team.
Serbia are progressing but like many new nations are struggling with finance.
Ive been contacted by guys in Sweden and Germany about how to go about starting league,well to be honest Ive told them if they are expecting any REAL help FORGET IT and just get on with it and do your best,take the knocks and come back, if you cant, dont even bother, because compared to the other code league lags a long way behind when it comes to helping developing nations.
But again all the best to the new boys but please dont make it a Sydney based "world" game.

 

[MRLA]

The Maltese Rugby League Association's ultimate goal is to have a domestic rugby league competition running in Malta itself.

 

[screeny]

And how are you planning to do that? To do this you need, I presume, people who are knowledgeable of RL in Malta, who are willing to caoch in Malta in their spare time and run the whole operation.

Do you chaps know any body that fits this bill? If so, great....

 

[MRLA]

screeny- The plans are in the pipeline, so be patient. However, if you think you can do better. Please, do it yourself.