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New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,549
Even if NZ2 has to wait 10years I’d rather the NRL made the call on it now as they’d definitely benefit from a prolonged lead in time to better get systems and pathways set up
Exactly! There's been so much speculation, bid publicity, lip-service & media buzz on expansion - for YEARS now.

It's the topic that just won't die, because there was so much promise, so many new horizons opened up in the mid 1990s, to just be shuttered by the end of that decade.

It's time NOW to bring this to a head, and for the NRL to come up with a plan - a "destination" (where we want to be at the end of this expansion phase), and a road map to that destination (what teams & when) - to give everyone the certainty - and lead-in time - they need
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
66,702
Exactly! There's been so much speculation, bid publicity, lip-service & media buzz on expansion - for YEARS now.

It's the topic that just won't die, because there was so much promise, so many new horizons opened up in the mid 1990s, to just be shuttered by the end of that decade.

It's time NOW to bring this to a head, and for the NRL to come up with a plan - a "destination" (where we want to be at the end of this expansion phase), and a road map to that destination (what teams & when) - to give everyone the certainty - and lead-in time - they need
I think they’ll announce 18 and 19 in next couple of weeks IF PNG is happening. Club 20 won’t get announced for a few years imo. Will give Christchurch the time to build a proper bid and get some backers behind them, get jnr systems elevated and more nrl games there to build fan interest. Club 20 unlikely to come in until 2031/32 so wont be announced for 5 years or more imo.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
497
For a start, if NRL wants to overtake RU here, they've gotta move away from their current Auckland focus in some meaningful way.
Agreed but it’s a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand you don’t want to stretch yourself too thin but there is also a whole country outside of Auckland supporting the team that for the most part the team takes for granted with minimal engagement. It doesn’t go unnoticed that the Warriors dramatically upped their presence in Christchurch since NZ 2 popped up.
There is that contingent of Warriors fans that see the team as Auckland rather than NZ however there can be more done to engage the RL fan base outside of Auckland be it more meaningful international focus and certainly NZ 2.
If NRL were really to kick Union in the teeth they could invest in the local game around junior coaching and participation, a tier 2 national comp etc- they certainly have the means to do so but you could also ask if it was their responsibility to do so
 

cinders7

Juniors
Messages
56
Anyone got access to this article?




Why NRL is still second to Super Rugby in New Zealand​

By Paul Cully

May 18, 2024 — 5.00am

The NRL juggernaut isn’t used to getting silver medals, especially when it comes to rugby – which is why the broadcast data released by Sky Sport in New Zealand on Friday might have been a bit bittersweet for the rugby league governing body.

It was a strong set of numbers; the NRL audience rising 14 per cent on the back of the Warriors’ nationwide popularity. It is beyond dispute that the Warriors have captured hearts and minds in New Zealand.

But when compared with the Super Rugby Pacific numbers released a fortnight earlier, the Sky figures indicated that the NRL hasn’t been able to topple the much-derided rugby competition as the most-watched winter code.
After 10 rounds of each competition, Super Rugby Pacific had attracted 1.67 million viewers while the NRL had attracted 1.59 million, despite the NRL having two more games each weekend. Also, the fervour for the Warriors hasn’t been able to deliver the most-watched game in either competition.

The Warriors-Raiders game in round three was the most-watched game of the NRL season so far, according to Sky data, attracting an audience of 469,800 people on Sky Sport and Sky Open (its free to-air offering) with a further 63,800 people on Sky’s streaming platforms. However, the Crusaders-Chiefs Super Rugby clash attracted 482,000 on Sky Sport and more than 59,400 streaming on Sky Sport Now and Sky Go for a total of 541,400, compared to the total of 533,600 for the Warriors’ most-watched game.
Australians may well be asking how this has happened, given they have been told by some cheerleaders that league has conquered rugby in New Zealand, never mind Super Rugby – a competition that takes second billing to the big show: the All Blacks.

Well, in some ways it is a surprise. The enthusiasm for the Warriors is genuine (although Sky data indicates that their on-field results have had an effect on broadcast numbers as the season has unfolded).
Also, the popularity of Australian NRL sides was well established even before “Up the Wahs” became a thing. It is very common for New Zealand rugby fans to have a favourite NRL side as well, often located in Australia, while they couldn’t care less about the Western Force or the Rebels in Super Rugby Pacific.

But this probably illustrates the main point: some of the Australian commentary on the supposed “code war” in New Zealand displays a profound lack of understanding about the country.
New Zealand is not Auckland. For its population size, New Zealand is a relatively long, geographically challenging country divided by a treacherous body of water.

This lends itself to having many smaller towns and provinces, rural in nature, in which rugby has deep roots. If you take a close look at a lot of All Blacks, for example, you find that they come from these dots on a map. Beauden Barrett is a country boy, for example, as was Richie McCaw before him.

This audience has been poorly served by Super Rugby in recent years, due to format changes, the struggles of the Australian sides and the lack of marketing grunt compared to the cashed-up NRL. But they are rusted-on rugby supporters, which explains why Super Rugby could point to its own rise of 11 per cent in broadcast audiences when Sky revealed the Super Rugby Pacific numbers a few weeks ago. Super Rugby is also simply enjoying a good season: the rugby is good, the competition is far more even, and the Crusaders are losing.

That increase, compared to the NRL’s 14 per cent, clearly challenges the popular narrative that league is up in New Zealand and rugby is dead. Instead, New Zealand has become a genuine two-code country, where fans have allegiances across both codes, going back and forth with results and the zeitgeist.

Should the NRL want to “beat” Super Rugby, then, it will almost certainly have to do one of two things: pray that the Warriors win the title or at least consistently go deep into the finals, or create a second team in the South Island. And neither of those are guaranteed.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,549
Agreed but it’s a bit of a double edged sword. On one hand you don’t want to stretch yourself too thin but there is also a whole country outside of Auckland supporting the team that for the most part the team takes for granted with minimal engagement. It doesn’t go unnoticed that the Warriors dramatically upped their presence in Christchurch since NZ 2 popped up.
There is that contingent of Warriors fans that see the team as Auckland rather than NZ however there can be more done to engage the RL fan base outside of Auckland be it more meaningful international focus and certainly NZ 2.
If NRL were really to kick Union in the teeth they could invest in the local game around junior coaching and participation, a tier 2 national comp etc- they certainly have the means to do so but you could also ask if it was their responsibility to do so
Ahh but if the NRL were to invest in NZ (maybe even a stake in the NZRL itself) they'd need to see a return on that investment - likely juniors as much as money - and most importantly a say in governance.

The NZRL would understandably be wary of that, BUT maybe it's what's needed to maximize the game here?
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
24,825
Ahh but if the NRL were to invest in NZ (maybe even a stake in the NZRL itself) they'd need to see a return on that investment - likely juniors as much as money - and most importantly a say in governance.

The NZRL would understandably be wary of that, BUT maybe it's what's needed to maximize the game here?
Nzrl has to be under the control of the arlc to get significant funding

but one commissioner needs to be a kiwi
 
Last edited:

Colk

First Grade
Messages
6,577

Why NRL is still second to Super Rugby in New Zealand​

By Paul Cully

May 18, 2024 — 5.00am

The NRL juggernaut isn’t used to getting silver medals, especially when it comes to rugby – which is why the broadcast data released by Sky Sport in New Zealand on Friday might have been a bit bittersweet for the rugby league governing body.

It was a strong set of numbers; the NRL audience rising 14 per cent on the back of the Warriors’ nationwide popularity. It is beyond dispute that the Warriors have captured hearts and minds in New Zealand.

But when compared with the Super Rugby Pacific numbers released a fortnight earlier, the Sky figures indicated that the NRL hasn’t been able to topple the much-derided rugby competition as the most-watched winter code.
After 10 rounds of each competition, Super Rugby Pacific had attracted 1.67 million viewers while the NRL had attracted 1.59 million, despite the NRL having two more games each weekend. Also, the fervour for the Warriors hasn’t been able to deliver the most-watched game in either competition.

The Warriors-Raiders game in round three was the most-watched game of the NRL season so far, according to Sky data, attracting an audience of 469,800 people on Sky Sport and Sky Open (its free to-air offering) with a further 63,800 people on Sky’s streaming platforms. However, the Crusaders-Chiefs Super Rugby clash attracted 482,000 on Sky Sport and more than 59,400 streaming on Sky Sport Now and Sky Go for a total of 541,400, compared to the total of 533,600 for the Warriors’ most-watched game.
Australians may well be asking how this has happened, given they have been told by some cheerleaders that league has conquered rugby in New Zealand, never mind Super Rugby – a competition that takes second billing to the big show: the All Blacks.

Well, in some ways it is a surprise. The enthusiasm for the Warriors is genuine (although Sky data indicates that their on-field results have had an effect on broadcast numbers as the season has unfolded).
Also, the popularity of Australian NRL sides was well established even before “Up the Wahs” became a thing. It is very common for New Zealand rugby fans to have a favourite NRL side as well, often located in Australia, while they couldn’t care less about the Western Force or the Rebels in Super Rugby Pacific.

But this probably illustrates the main point: some of the Australian commentary on the supposed “code war” in New Zealand displays a profound lack of understanding about the country.
New Zealand is not Auckland. For its population size, New Zealand is a relatively long, geographically challenging country divided by a treacherous body of water.

This lends itself to having many smaller towns and provinces, rural in nature, in which rugby has deep roots. If you take a close look at a lot of All Blacks, for example, you find that they come from these dots on a map. Beauden Barrett is a country boy, for example, as was Richie McCaw before him.

This audience has been poorly served by Super Rugby in recent years, due to format changes, the struggles of the Australian sides and the lack of marketing grunt compared to the cashed-up NRL. But they are rusted-on rugby supporters, which explains why Super Rugby could point to its own rise of 11 per cent in broadcast audiences when Sky revealed the Super Rugby Pacific numbers a few weeks ago. Super Rugby is also simply enjoying a good season: the rugby is good, the competition is far more even, and the Crusaders are losing.

That increase, compared to the NRL’s 14 per cent, clearly challenges the popular narrative that league is up in New Zealand and rugby is dead. Instead, New Zealand has become a genuine two-code country, where fans have allegiances across both codes, going back and forth with results and the zeitgeist.

Should the NRL want to “beat” Super Rugby, then, it will almost certainly have to do one of two things: pray that the Warriors win the title or at least consistently go deep into the finals, or create a second team in the South Island. And neither of those are guaranteed.

To be fair that is a brilliant result for the NRL. Getting 400 -500k viewers for a Warriors game is fantastic regardless of whether it was more than a Super Rugby match
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,549
Fu

One nrl club vs six ? Super ???? Rugby sides

but yeh second club makes. A huge difference
Ahh but the thing that Australians don't generally get about NZ rugby union is the importance of the provincial scene (aka NPC).

New Zealand has had a longstanding structure underneath test rugby - club (suburban/small-town) rugby in the Autumn/Winter, and Provincial teams drawn from club rugby in the NPC after that. Communities & regions take a lot of pride in their "local team".. and those levels feed wonderfully into the player stock that makes us so competitive.

Yes, Rugby League has club competitions at the local level here & provincial sides on top of that, but ask any casual sports fan here & they'd know more about those levels (especially provincial) for union rather than league.

A number of reasons for that- obviously RU's money & power is a big one - but lack of publicity, lack of resources, lack of quality talent (the best go to NRL) and constant changing of teams & competition format over here add to RL's problems.
 

Wb1234

Referee
Messages
24,825
Ahh but the thing that Australians don't generally get about NZ rugby union is the importance of the provincial scene (aka NPC).

New Zealand has had a longstanding structure underneath test rugby - club (suburban/small-town) rugby in the Autumn/Winter, and Provincial teams drawn from club rugby in the NPC after that. Communities & regions take a lot of pride in their "local team".. and those levels feed wonderfully into the player stock that makes us so competitive.

Yes, Rugby League has club competitions at the local level here & provincial sides on top of that, but ask any casual sports fan here & they'd know more about those levels (especially provincial) for union rather than league.

A number of reasons for that- obviously RU's money & power is a big one - but lack of publicity, lack of resources, lack of quality talent (the best go to NRL) and constant changing of teams & competition format over here add to RL's problems.
I suspect super rugby has done to the npc what the broncos did to the Brisbane rugby league comp
 

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,902
Anyone got access to this article?

This is what most of us Aussies have been saying for months, but some in this thread are off with the faires.

The same people got a full nutsack over a teacher from the South Island creating a Facebook page.

We all laugh at Aussie Rules fans for being delusional, bout time some of us got a reality check also.
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
497
Ahh but if the NRL were to invest in NZ (maybe even a stake in the NZRL itself) they'd need to see a return on that investment - likely juniors as much as money - and most importantly a say in governance.

The NZRL would understandably be wary of that, BUT maybe it's what's needed to maximize the game here?
I definitely think the NRL could do a much better job running the game in NZ than the NZRL but NZRL would not cede sovereignty easily. Despite the better management you would question the NRLs loyalties in NZ tbf
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
497
I suspect super rugby has done to the npc what the broncos did to the Brisbane rugby league comp
To a degree definitely, rare to have ABs playing for provinces now days plus for a while the base provinces for the Super Rugby franchises benefited greatly by the “lesser” provinces’ players being based in a franchise city for a large portion of the season. Last decade or so has seen a bit of a rebalance back to the provinces. Still well and truely 3rd tier when pre super rugby it was 2nd tier
 

Matiunz

Juniors
Messages
497

Why NRL is still second to Super Rugby in New Zealand​

By Paul Cully

May 18, 2024 — 5.00am

The NRL juggernaut isn’t used to getting silver medals, especially when it comes to rugby – which is why the broadcast data released by Sky Sport in New Zealand on Friday might have been a bit bittersweet for the rugby league governing body.

It was a strong set of numbers; the NRL audience rising 14 per cent on the back of the Warriors’ nationwide popularity. It is beyond dispute that the Warriors have captured hearts and minds in New Zealand.

But when compared with the Super Rugby Pacific numbers released a fortnight earlier, the Sky figures indicated that the NRL hasn’t been able to topple the much-derided rugby competition as the most-watched winter code.
After 10 rounds of each competition, Super Rugby Pacific had attracted 1.67 million viewers while the NRL had attracted 1.59 million, despite the NRL having two more games each weekend. Also, the fervour for the Warriors hasn’t been able to deliver the most-watched game in either competition.

The Warriors-Raiders game in round three was the most-watched game of the NRL season so far, according to Sky data, attracting an audience of 469,800 people on Sky Sport and Sky Open (its free to-air offering) with a further 63,800 people on Sky’s streaming platforms. However, the Crusaders-Chiefs Super Rugby clash attracted 482,000 on Sky Sport and more than 59,400 streaming on Sky Sport Now and Sky Go for a total of 541,400, compared to the total of 533,600 for the Warriors’ most-watched game.
Australians may well be asking how this has happened, given they have been told by some cheerleaders that league has conquered rugby in New Zealand, never mind Super Rugby – a competition that takes second billing to the big show: the All Blacks.

Well, in some ways it is a surprise. The enthusiasm for the Warriors is genuine (although Sky data indicates that their on-field results have had an effect on broadcast numbers as the season has unfolded).
Also, the popularity of Australian NRL sides was well established even before “Up the Wahs” became a thing. It is very common for New Zealand rugby fans to have a favourite NRL side as well, often located in Australia, while they couldn’t care less about the Western Force or the Rebels in Super Rugby Pacific.

But this probably illustrates the main point: some of the Australian commentary on the supposed “code war” in New Zealand displays a profound lack of understanding about the country.
New Zealand is not Auckland. For its population size, New Zealand is a relatively long, geographically challenging country divided by a treacherous body of water.

This lends itself to having many smaller towns and provinces, rural in nature, in which rugby has deep roots. If you take a close look at a lot of All Blacks, for example, you find that they come from these dots on a map. Beauden Barrett is a country boy, for example, as was Richie McCaw before him.

This audience has been poorly served by Super Rugby in recent years, due to format changes, the struggles of the Australian sides and the lack of marketing grunt compared to the cashed-up NRL. But they are rusted-on rugby supporters, which explains why Super Rugby could point to its own rise of 11 per cent in broadcast audiences when Sky revealed the Super Rugby Pacific numbers a few weeks ago. Super Rugby is also simply enjoying a good season: the rugby is good, the competition is far more even, and the Crusaders are losing.

That increase, compared to the NRL’s 14 per cent, clearly challenges the popular narrative that league is up in New Zealand and rugby is dead. Instead, New Zealand has become a genuine two-code country, where fans have allegiances across both codes, going back and forth with results and the zeitgeist.

Should the NRL want to “beat” Super Rugby, then, it will almost certainly have to do one of two things: pray that the Warriors win the title or at least consistently go deep into the finals, or create a second team in the South Island. And neither of those are guaranteed.
Only point I’d question there is yes it’s common for a Union fan to also have an NRL side but would you say it’s “often located n Australia”? Yes there were sprinkles of fans of other teams but vast majority of NRL fans in NZ were Warriors fans-80% or so in my experience, unless they’re counting a ‘second team’ that some fans will casually follow if they’re doing well.
 
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