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Paul Sironen on Bryce Cartwright

Mader45

Juniors
Messages
664
http://m.nrl.com/cartwright-worth-an-origin-gamble-sironen/tabid/10874/newsid/95644/default.aspx

"I kind of compare him with my young bloke Curtis when they were coming through and Bryce is allowed to get out and play a bit of footy.

"To [Panthers coach] Anthony Griffin's credit he lets him use the footy and he can pop up both sides of the ruck. There's an offload if he pulls one out, he just has to be careful with his pass selection.

"But he's got some football in him and it hasn't been coached out of him and that's one good thing."


Not much reading between the lines required there....
 

Clifferd

Coach
Messages
10,805
Even if Curtis's natural ability has been coached out of him (offload, vision, sidestep etc) you'd think you'd atleast be able to see glimpses of his "talent". I haven't seen anything from him that would suggest he's anything other than an average first grader

He would be lucky to be half the player Cartwright is atm
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
Well given Curtis has only been a back rower for a fraction of the time Bryce has been, its hardly a fair comparison.

Big Sirro is right though
 

Tigerted

Juniors
Messages
457
Cartwright is exceptional.

At the moment Bayley siro is the most likely to succeed out of Paul's 2 boys.

I'd like to c what level of improvement Curtis can make if he could stay injury free for long enough.Thus far he has been very disappointing.
 

sensesmaybenumbed

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,930
Well given Curtis has only been a back rower for a fraction of the time Bryce has been, its hardly a fair comparison.

Big Sirro is right though


A fair point, but let's look at Chris Lawrence as well. He's less than 2 years into switching to the back row, and he's going very well.
 

Tigerted

Juniors
Messages
457
No surprise as Chris Lawrence has a wonderful work ethic whereas siro suffers from apathy.

Siro has the physique & pedigree to be a star however he lacks the hunger & killer instinct that is required @ NRL level to be amongst the elite.
 
Messages
3,320
No surprise as Chris Lawrence has a wonderful work ethic whereas siro suffers from apathy.

Siro has the physique & pedigree to be a star however he lacks the hunger & killer instinct that is required @ NRL level to be amongst the elite.

Yep totally agree,Curtis 'Stand Back' Sironen has no drive or mongrel in him that is required in Nrl to be a success.
Cartwright on the other hand is delivering on his promise and is poles apart from Sirro who lives off his name and his old mans legacy.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,362
No surprise as Chris Lawrence has a wonderful work ethic whereas siro suffers from apathy.

Siro has the physique & pedigree to be a star however he lacks the hunger & killer instinct that is required @ NRL level to be amongst the elite.
That is because he has NEVER had to work for anything he's gotten
 
Messages
3,233
Just flicked through the Daily Telegraph and once again amazed by the 1st class rugby league journalists they employ.

Case in point. ratings and comments from game yesterday.

Bryce Cartwright:
A NSW Blue in waiting. All his array of skills were on display in this one. 8.5

Curtis Sironen:
Limited chances but definitely won't be his last rep game. 5

'definitely not his last rep game', I wonder who he will play for?
 

murraymob

Coach
Messages
10,094
Cartwright played a lot of his junior footy in the halves. Even spent a bit of time there in the u20 team. Sirronen is not in the same ballpark as Cartwright right now but both are young and will just get better
 
Messages
17,744
Bryce has used his last name as pressure to push himself. Young Siro has lived off his and done as little as possible.
 

Vic Mackey

Referee
Messages
24,598
Whilst Cartwright is obviously a far superior player to Siro, I do see some merit in what Paul is saying. To me Siro is being used completely wrong. He only ever gets the ball right on the defensive line. He needs early ball as he does have some skills that can set up other players.
 
Messages
3,320
He could always tell whoever is passing the ball when he prefers or wants it...then again maybe he is already doing that...!
 
Messages
3,233
Surprised that I'm defending Sironen but looking at his early years compared to Cartwright, Siro did miss plenty of football due to shoulder surgery and perhaps that effected his confidence.

He made his 1st grade debut at 18, Bryce at 20 and Curtis is only 15 months older.

Sironen
Born: 31 July 1993 (22)

NYC: 2010 – 2013
Games 27 which would indicate that he may have had some injuries.
Points: 16 tries & 23 goals
Honours:
2011 U18’s NSW Team as 5/8 (Lovett was in 2nd row)
2011 NSW Combined Catholic College team as captain,
2011 Australian Schoolboys

NRL Debut 2012 at 18 – played 6 games then shoulder reconstruction.




Cartright
Born: 15 November 1994 (21)

NYC: 2012 – 2014
Games: 36
Points: 22 tries & 70 goals
Honours:
2013 NYC Team of the Year as a 2nd rower and NYC Player of the Year
2012 U18’s NSW Team as a reserve (M Moses was 5/8)
2010 U16’s NSW Team as lock.

NRL: Debut 2014 at 20
 

betcats

Referee
Messages
23,498
I think Paul Sironen probably has a point. Gus has wrote a good article about kids having creativity coached out of them by coaches who just want to play high percentage, high completion rate style footy. He actually used Bryce as the example. I'll dig up the link for anyone who is interested(its very Penrith flavoured) as it was a good read.

Edit: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...he-will-be-the-real-deal-20150704-gi59xd.html

Its a bit long winded(as Gus usually is) but the main part of it is this and touches on what Paul is saying about Curtis.




"I don't get involved in coaching at Panthers. That's the job of our coaching staff. However, four years ago I sent all of our coaches a link to a YouTube video of a gentleman by the name of Sir Ken Robinson. He was giving a speech to an education seminar discussing the role of our current education systems in preparing people for employment and life in an ever-changing world. The major point he made was that all children were born with creativity. All children were born artists. They will have a go at anything. But for most kids, these attributes or qualities are educated out of them by a system and society that rarely values such talents. I guess if we want to get very philosophical about this, kids are not born with prejudice, scepticism, insecurity or self-consciousness. However, life can soon lead down the path to all of those things. I'll leave that discussion for greater minds than mine.
Back to football and Sir Ken.
The basic premise of his presentation was that education quite often kills creativity. His fear was our world needs more creativity, yet such talents were being squandered pretty ruthlessly by a system that only wanted to create people in its own vision. It was pretty heady stuff.
After watching the video, the coaches said "Yeah, great speech. but what's your point?" I gave them my opinion that from where I view rugby league these days, I believe coaches kill a lot of creativity in players. I then related this to the way rugby league coaching has evolved over the past decade. To my mind, coaching has become programmed, uniform, risk-averse and motivated by playing the percentages. We teach kids to play in lanes, in one corridor of the field, with simple roles and responsibilities. Some players may go through their entire career and know only one small part of the game.
I then used the example of a young fellow coming through our system at the time by the name of Bryce Cartwright.
At 16 Bryce was doing everything. Kicking long, short, high, low, cross-field. He would kick at any time from anywhere on the field. There were no rules. His passing was outstanding. He could offload at will, around the corner and over the top, he could pass short to a man hitting a hole, or throw it to someone in the next postcode. He had all the skills. I suggested to the coaches that while we may marvel at the way he plays while being only 16, if history is any guide, we will more than likely coach a lot of this stuff out of him by the time he turns 21 to conform to the modern systems.
I asked the question "How are you going to develop Bryce Cartwright as a back-row forward in the modern game?"
For that matter, how are we going to develop any player in any position in the modern game? Are we going to typecast them into a structure that merely replicates what every other team is doing? Or can we evolve our own development program where we encourage and value the creativity of individuals to build their own style?
I go back to the statement I made earlier in this column: "The unique talents that Bryce Cartwright possesses will be both a blessing and a burden to him as he makes his way through this important development phase of his career."
It's up to our coaching staff to protect him from the burden and to help him manage this blessing"
 
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