RL1908 - Aboriginal and Maori Teams for World Cup

[The Observer]

Interesting to see Sean Fagan's editorial on RL1908. I agree and think they would be meritorious inclusions. Besides the Kangaroos, Kiwis, Lions and the Chanticleers, there won't be any teams that could compete at an elite level. The Dream Team and Aotearoa Maori could.

http://rl1908.com/indigenous.htm

Aboriginal and Maori Teams for World Cup?

The argument for including Australian and New Zealand indigenous teams in the 2008 Rugby League World Cup.

<snipped>

there are further reasons for consideration of New Zealand Maori and Australian Aboriginal teams in the 2008 RLWC.

The first reason is purely based on the large indigenous populations of both Australia and New Zealand who play rugby league - and they play it very well! These player pools are larger than that which some of the participating countries will have!

Some will argue that the World Cup's credibility will be challenged if Maori and Aboriginal teams are included. Yet valid reasons for their inclusion in this tournament are readily to be found - and their teams will be competitive. For the 'Maoris' team it is historical, for the 'Aboriginal' team it is as traditional hosts.

This World Cup tournament is meant to celebrate the commencement of rugby league in Australia in 1908. During that first season we were visited by two international teams - the New Zealand Kiwis and the New Zealand Maoris.

The 'Maoris' reappearance in the Centenary World Cup tournament could therefore be argued on historical grounds.

The inclusion of the 'Aboriginals' side would be a way of paying respect to the traditional owners of the lands on which the 2008 World Cup is to be played. It is not inconceivable that despite the Cup being played in Australia, despite the huge number of Aboriginals who play rugby league, not one will take to the field in a World Cup match.

The matter will require some careful examination by the RLWC organisers and indigenous communities alike.

I would favour both teams being part of the 2008 Rugby League World Cup - the New Zealand Maoris (as part of the centenary celebrations) and the Australian Aboriginals (as traditional hosts).

 

[yakstorm]

You love dancing on thin ice don't you Joker.

As I've said before, and I'll say again, whilst including Aboriginals and Maori's in a World Cup could work and has the potential to be a huge success both in terms of world wide perception (we are seen as the innovators) and even in Australia (we are seen as giving Aboriginals a real go, which could league to increase participation for league in areas like WA and NT) to do that you would need an excellent marketing team.

We don't have it yet, and i don't think we will have it by 2008, look we don't even know how many teams will be in that world cup yet, yet in Union, we know who the Wallabies are grouped with for 2007....

 

[The Observer]

These are the best teams that could be fielded as of 2004.

Kangaroos
Minichiello, Tahu*, Gidley, Tate, De Vere; Lockyer, Gower; Timmins, Kennedy, N Hindmarsh; Clinton, Buderus, Webcke

Wesser*; Sing*, Lewis, Berrigan, Cooper; Fitzgibbon, Barrett, Kimmorley; Crocker, Civoniceva, Simpson; Waterhouse, Wing*, Price.

*=ATSI players

Dream Team
Bowen; Blacklock, Hodges, Hegarty, Roberts; Campbell, S Prince; Widders, Gibson, Perry; Tallis (c), C Webb, Wagon

Peachey; O'Davis, Hookey, Tonga, T Williams; A Walker, Thurston; Tookey, B Webb, Thaiday; J Smith, Wellington, Bird

Kiwis
R Paul*, Vainikolo, N Vagana, Toopi*, Meli; Faumuina, Jones*; Kidwell*, T Puletua, Galuvao; J Cayless*, Betham, Rauhihi*

Marshall*; Fa'afili, Anderson, Vaealiki, Utai; T Leuluai*, Hohaia*; Williams, Kearney*, Lauaki; Seu Seu, Latu, N Cayless*

*= Maori players

MAORI
Barnett; Whatuira, Kohe Love, S Hape, Carmont; Harris, M Perenara; Koopu, T Smith, A Guttenbeil; Pongia, H Perenara, Chan

RESERVES P Lewis, Skinnon, Halatau, Mellars, Te Mata, Bishop, Tonie Carroll

 

[The Observer]

I do advocate examining what the values and ethos of the sport is and advocate and pushing the boundaries when the cause is justified.

Storm, your concerns are valid and suggestion is pretty spot on. The inclusion of these teams would require careful, sensible marketing and education of the public by a team that is capable of the task.

Since Fagan wrote the article recently, I thought it would be worth encouraging new discussion in light of announcements about the RLWC this year.

 

[dimitri]

stupid idea
stupid idea
stupid idea
stupid idea


!!!!


we do not want to be a laughing stock

 

[AuckMel]

We already are the laughing stock.

Stacking a few nations with a fist full of Australians, Kiwis and Poms will only add to that.

 

[griff]

I agree with dimitri, it is a bad idea.

I have been in enough arguments about pros and cons of this sort of thing, and won't repeat them all here, but I have always been against it. Sure they may be competitive and have had a long historical connection to the land, but the same could be said for Lancashire and Yorkshire.

As a compromise, the powers that be should plan out a long term schedule and guarantee the two sides (especially the Maori) a certain number of matches over the next few years - including hosting guaranteed money-making tour matches against Australia and Great Britain as well as tours of France and Russia and appearances in Pacific Cups.

 

[DIEHARD]

I'd love for the Aboriginals to have a team. Maybe a touring team more so than a spot in the World Cup. But what a great way to celebrate their contribution to our game and inspire more to take up the sport. It's something their people can be extremely proud of.

As long as we aren't breaking Australia up by race and the best Australia has to offer still plays for the Roos. But why have so many ridiculously skilled Aboriginal players sitting around twiddling their thumbs come World Cup 2008?

It would be great for our sport, the tournament and the Aboriginal community.

I still favour a tour side that tours during a proposed international season. They could play a tri series with Pacific Islands and PNG while the big guns, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain duke it out in the northern hemisphere. What could be better for international RL?

 

[Big Bunny]

It's not a bad idea, just one that I don't agree with. I'd need to see further reasons as to why an Aboriginal team should be involved. I have seen it in play in other sports where it works. Lacrosse features a world cup with a team representing the Iroquois nation due to their being strong enough and having been responsible for inventing the game. I see an aboriginal team as being the same as a Pacific Island rep team though as it would be encompassing countless tribial groups and clans and the aboriginal nations that they are part of rather than one nation. If it were those individual nations which are strong enough (and there are a few) to beat teams in the top 3 nations, I'd be all for it.

 

[dimitri]

if our world cup final was between aus and aus abor

or nz and nz maori

it would be an absolute flop


may as well throw a couple of million dollars down the drain

 

[IKnowIt]

I agree with a few of the others, that the inclusion of an Australian Aboriginal side and an NZ Maori side in the world cup is not the way to go.

The World Cup is meant to be a tournament of nations, and both the Aboriginals and Maoris are already represented by Australia and NZ. With the strength an Aboriginal side potential has, it could be an Australia vs Australian Aborigines World Cup Final, and that doesn’t look good for International Rugby League.

If competitiveness is a concern, don’t let Australia compete at all, lets have NSW and QLD take a place each. That doesn’t look good for International Rugby League either.

There are better uses for an Aboriginal and Maori side, Taking on touring sides in Australia and NZ, going on tours themselves, playing in the Pacific Cup. I’d even like to see a full strength Aboriginal side take on a full strength Maori once a year held on a rotational basis between Australia and NZ.

I also think that having the World Cup in 2008 is a mistake. Either hold it in 2009, which is better year for it or, the Tournament in 2008 is not a World Cup but a tournament to celebrate 100 years of Australia Rugby League and have the World Cup separate.

I know that the IRLF wants the World Cup in 2008 in Australia to be the celebration of 100 years, but for the long-term benefit of the World Cup it should be held in 2009. The original organises of the Rugby World Cup wanted to hold it in 1988 as a celebration of Australia’s Bicentenary, but realised that if they hold it 1987, then the four yearly cycle puts the RWC in the year between the Soccer World Cup and the Olympics. So the first RWC was held in 1987 and every 4 years since. Rugby League needs to do the same thing.

What I think is a good idea is to have a tournament in Australia in 2008 for the centenary of Australian Rugby League involving teams: Australia, England, New Zealand, Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maoris and possibly PNG. This tournament would not only be a celebration, but it can also be used to help promote and build momentum for the World Cup in 2009 (also in Australia), any funds from this could also go in helping with the World Cup which would contain nations only, and which have qualified to be there through various qualifying tournaments.

 

[The Observer]

Big Bunny, you make a fair point here, and the alternative you've suggested elsewhere holds some merit too.

 

[mat_parsons]

I think that some people are afraid of Aboriginal team because Aboriginies are all around NRL teams and doing really well. It's sad thing Northern Territory can't have a club (or State of Origin Team) simply because they haven't got money.

 

[DIEHARD]

They have no peopl either. :lol: