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Rumblings over proposed Federations/8N Cup

adamkungl

Immortal
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42,955
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3034...tition-in-same-year-as-rugby-union-world-cup/

NOT A LEAGUE OF NATIONS
International rugby league bosses warned it would be ‘foolish’ to target America with new competition in same year as Rugby Union World Cup


Eight team competition planned for 2023 - but it won't be going Stateside

EXCLUSIVE
BY GARY CARTER
13th March 2017, 4:21 pm

Updated: 13th March 2017, 5:03 pm
1
COMMENTS
RUGBY league chiefs have been told they are ‘foolish’ for eyeing America as the place to launch a new international tournament in the same year as a Rugby Union World Cup.

As a result, the man who is taking the 2025 Rugby League World Cup Stateside will not be bidding to kickstart the latest idea there.


REUTERS
4
England’s players will have a new tournament to win in 2023 – but it won’t be in America
The new competition, featuring eight teams, will take place inbetween the 2021 and 2025 World Cups.

However Moore Sports International, the company which secured the latter tournament for North America, has revealed it will not bid for the new competition in an area where rugby is regarded as rugby, whatever the code.

Sources told SunSport the Rugby League International Federation is taking expressions of interest in hosting the tournament and will make a decision in the coming months.


PA:pRESS ASSOCIATION
4
Australia are the current World Cup holders and one of the hosts of this year’s tournament, which is heading Stateside in 2025
But Jason Moore, the boss of Moore Sports International, says he will not be bidding – and revealed his concern over the date.

He said: “We had several reasons why the 2023 event didn’t work for us in the US/Canada, which were communicated to the RLIF Board very concisely.

“We were interested in several modified forms of the proposed eight team ‘Mini World Cup’, however for October/November 2022 – not 2023 – as that would clash directly with Rugby World Cup.

“In the North American market, where the difference between league and union is not widely known, we consider it commercially challenging, if not foolish, to try and get media and market support in an already cluttered time of the year in the North American sports landscape.”


4
Toronto Wolfpack are spearheading rugby league’s attempt to cross the Atlantic but an international tournament in 2023 will not be.
Moore did, however, reveal his proposal for a third international tournament, which would further plunge the future of the Four Nations into doubt, especially if traditional Great Britain tours are brought back into the calendar.
However, sources revealed bosses should get an update on the competition, whch was won by Australia at Anfield last year, is expected next month – but it is largely up to the Rugby Football League and the NRL to sort.

Moore added: “We have presented a formal proposal to the RLIF for a six-team competition format – Australia, NZ, Great Britain/England, USA, Canada and an RLIF Qualifier – to be played in North America 2022, 2028, 2032 and every four years onwards.

“This was matched with turnkey benefits for teams and a multi-million dollar guarantee. While the RLIF board has not declined, it has not accepted either.”


4
Wayne Bennett will have no issues over selection for England’s Test against Samoa
Meanwhile, England’s players will not be held back from representing their country against Samoa by NRL teams.

Fears that stars who play in Australia, like Josh Hodgson, James Graham and three Burgess brothers, could be prevented from playing in the mid-season Test on May 6 had started to spread through rugby league.

But SunSport has been told by a senior international rugby league power broker that the game will take priority over any club.

That means coach Wayne Bennett can pick whoever he wants and they would have to be released.


The gist:
Moore Sports wants a mini-WC hosted in the US in 2022 (less than 1 year after completion of the 2021 WC).
The RLIF wants a tournament in 2023 (the same year as a Rugby WC).

My view:
1. The event must be hosted in 2023. A major tournament any bigger than the 4N devalues the just played WC. People already criticised the 4N format for this reason. There are a hundred possible things that can be hosted in the US in 2022 if they wish, it doesn't have to be a hosted top tier tournament. As much as Moore's investment should be encouraged, it can't be the deciding factor in any and all decisions.

2. As touched on above, a tournament that is just mini-WC risks redundancy and devalues both events. I think the mid-cycle tournament should be significantly different in qualification, structure, and feel to the World Cup.

I'm favouring a home and away series Federations Cup.
The qualifiers are
Australia,
New Zealand,
England,
European Champions,
Pacific Champions,
American Champions,
Africa-Asia Champions,
and the 8th spot to a playoff Europe vs Pacific runners-up.

As much as I'd like every team to play 14 games throughout a year it's obviously not feasible at this stage...
So the format would be some form of a 2 pool scenario.
Games would be played home or away rather than all hosted in a central location at the same time - giving it more of a test series feel than a mini-WC tournament. And spreading out major internationals to nations that don't usually play host without the pressures of hosting a full tournament.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
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4,365
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/3034...tition-in-same-year-as-rugby-union-world-cup/




The gist:
Moore Sports wants a mini-WC hosted in the US in 2022 (less than 1 year after completion of the 2021 WC).
The RLIF wants a tournament in 2023 (the same year as a Rugby WC).

My view:
1. The event must be hosted in 2023. A major tournament any bigger than the 4N devalues the just played WC. People already criticised the 4N format for this reason. There are a hundred possible things that can be hosted in the US in 2022 if they wish, it doesn't have to be a hosted top tier tournament. As much as Moore's investment should be encouraged, it can't be the deciding factor in any and all decisions.

2. As touched on above, a tournament that is just mini-WC risks redundancy and devalues both events. I think the mid-cycle tournament should be significantly different in qualification, structure, and feel to the World Cup.

I'm favouring a home and away series Federations Cup.
The qualifiers are
Australia,
New Zealand,
England,
European Champions,
Pacific Champions,
American Champions,
Africa-Asia Champions,
and the 8th spot to a playoff Europe vs Pacific runners-up.

As much as I'd like every team to play 14 games throughout a year it's obviously not feasible at this stage...
So the format would be some form of a 2 pool scenario.
Games would be played home or away rather than all hosted in a central location at the same time - giving it more of a test series feel than a mini-WC tournament. And spreading out major internationals to nations that don't usually play host without the pressures of hosting a full tournament.

I agree should be 2023 and it's a little worrying Moore doesn't have the confidence to go "up against" a different sport's tournament which is most likely being played on another continent with how much overlap?


As for format, I think 2 pools of 4 with each pool hosted in a different country/area. For a start at least.
 

Evil Homer

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Staff member
Messages
7,178
No excuse for this not happening in 2019. And hosting a Federation Cup in the same country as the WC two years later would be pretty dumb anyway.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
No excuse for this not happening in 2019. And hosting a Federation Cup in the same country as the WC two years later would be pretty dumb anyway.

Agree on both counts.

It would be silly to go from not enough internationals to too many redundant tournaments with no lasting prestige.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
It has already been decided,at the RLIF Congress last November,that RLIF EVENTS will be every two years from 2021..

2022 is a tour year..End of
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
I'd go with:
Australia
New Zealand
England
Europe 1
Europe 2
Oceania 1
Oceania 2
Winner of playoff between Americas 1 and Middle East/Africa 1

Eventually I think we'll switch to Americas 1 qualifying directly and Europe 2 playing off against Middle East/Africa 1
 

jim_57

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Staff member
Messages
4,365
I'd go with:
Australia
New Zealand
England
Europe 1
Europe 2
Oceania 1
Oceania 2
Winner of playoff between Americas 1 and Middle East/Africa 1

Eventually I think we'll switch to Americas 1 qualifying directly and Europe 2 playing off against Middle East/Africa 1

I'd go with that, although hosts auto-qualify.

For the Euro & Pacific spots I'd do it a bit different from Normal though. Have a playoff between the 2 most developed nations for the first spot, the loser of that game joins the rest for the second spot. There needs to be more incentive and reward for developing the game domestically and such a system encourages that.

So essentially 2 of Wales, France, PNG & Fiji qualify and the other 2 get a second chance along with the likes of Scotland, Samoa etc.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
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42,955
I feel like a Federations cup should actually represent every Federation - I'm aware there isn't currently an American one but there should be.
 

Arucard

Juniors
Messages
589
I feel like a Federations cup should actually represent every Federation - I'm aware there isn't currently an American one but there should be.
That's a really good idea. That way we could end up with a pacific cup and such to act as qualifiers for this tournament.
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,413
I honestly don't blame Moore for his reluctance to underwrite a 'Federation Cup' tournament in the same year (and potentially at the same time) in a country where most people don't know there isn't two codes of Rugby.

The RUWC will be broadcasted in the US on Universal / NBC, so won't be hidden away, so people will know it's on, meaning that the likely question by locals in the US will be 'Why are there two major international Rugby tournaments on at the same time? Is this Federation Cup some sort of B tournament?'

It makes the job of making the event a success just that bit harder, which in the lead up to a World Cup, we need success.

Imagine the coverage from the RL press if it went ahead and was played in front of small crowds? We're not the most forgiving bunch as a sport.

Plus anyway, it's his money, he is entitled to pick and choose what concepts he wants to support.
 

paulmac

Juniors
Messages
776
It has to be significantly different to the RLWC otherwise it will dilute our main tournament.Id like it to be called the Champions Trophy.
It would feature the 3 nations that have been World CHAMPIONS (Aus,NZ,Eng) plus the Pacific Cup CHAMPIONS,Euro Cup CHAMPIONS & the Inter-Continental Cup CHAMPIONS.The inter-continental Cup would be for teams from North & South America,Asia & Africa.
So the Champions Trophy would have 6 teams,round robin plus a final over 4 weeks.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,955
I honestly don't blame Moore for his reluctance to underwrite a 'Federation Cup' tournament in the same year (and potentially at the same time) in a country where most people don't know there isn't two codes of Rugby.

The RUWC will be broadcasted in the US on Universal / NBC, so won't be hidden away, so people will know it's on, meaning that the likely question by locals in the US will be 'Why are there two major international Rugby tournaments on at the same time? Is this Federation Cup some sort of B tournament?'

It makes the job of making the event a success just that bit harder, which in the lead up to a World Cup, we need success.

Imagine the coverage from the RL press if it went ahead and was played in front of small crowds? We're not the most forgiving bunch as a sport.

Plus anyway, it's his money, he is entitled to pick and choose what concepts he wants to support.

Of course. But just coz he has some money doesn't mean he gets to pick the international calendar either.
 

jim_57

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Staff member
Messages
4,365
Of course. But just coz he has some money doesn't mean he gets to pick the international calendar either.

Just because it is a tour year he could still put together a decent tournament or program of matches in the US/Canada. On tour years there is always going to be an odd team put in the big 3 and several other sides looking for games.
 

roughyedspud

Coach
Messages
12,181
Who's asking him to underwrite a comp?? Surely if he can't propose a profitable package then don't apply to host..
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,413
The RLIF is wanting someone to underwrite these new competitions; hence why nothing got sorted between 2018 - 2020 & currently we have nothing sorted for 2022 - 2024.

Moore applied to host 2022, which he considered a profitable year to run such a tournament. RLIF disagreed, which they are entitled to, but then ASKED Moore to apply for 2023.

Moore declined and stated why he doesn't want to underwrite a competition in 2023.

No one has done anything wrong, it's just a difference of opinion between MSI and the RLIF.

Hopefully a bidder for 2023 can be found and some of Moore's other concepts get considered.
 

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